Kids Club Age Change

[Nala301]

And then when a guest is dissatisfied on the cruise the comment or complaint reflects on the poor crew who don’t get a chance to be promoted or maybe even transfer to a ship to be with their significant other while the shoreside decision makers comfortably get things like minimum wage and days off and vacation pay without taking any responsibility for it.

I hope I have been clear that this is not the fault of the CMs on board. They tried their best, but there simply isn't a process in place. They were as shocked as we were. I did not make any negative comments about the staff, nor will I even mention the ship that we were on. I did not even comment negatively on comment cards, because I can honestly say they tried to work with us. Truly, everyone went above and beyond, and the fault lies with whomever is making these decisions without notice to anyone...guests or staff. I simply wish I had notice to make different decision about how to spend my family vacation. I know my kids best, and none of these judgmental questions posted here can change that.

My point in posting was #1 to inform those who may be in similar circumstances so that they may plan accordingly for their own families.

And #2, to process this so that I can send a response to Disney in a clear informative manner, rather than an emotional stress-out mom manner. I don't expect a response, but maybe enough voices will help find a solution...even if it doesn't work for me, at least future cruisers can know what to expect. Really, that's all I wanted...to know what to expect so I could plan accordingly. It's not about my child's maturity or my parenting style, or what you think I should do. It's about letting someone know what to expect when they plan for something as big as a family cruise. This isn't just like a day at the zoo. This is a big deal to most of us. I planned for a long time...6 days is not enough notice for this big of a change.

Thank you to those of you who have actually read my posts and commiserated with me. And an extra special thank you to the CMs that may be here. Without you there would be no magic at all.

 

[DCLMP]

I think your post is unfair to OP. Their expectations were based on what Disney CM's told them. If a CM tells me that they will send me messages to update me on the status of my child then I have no reason to distrust them. I also expect that Disney would allow customers to make changes to their reservation based on changes such as what just happened.

The Edge has been the same for years. It's never been supervised. The poster made comments about Dinsey failing this age group. Disney has never failed this age group. Tweens have been enjoying the Edge for years without CMs supervising their every move. I find it hard to believe a CM would say this. That's not DCL's policy. An error by the CM if it was said, but certainly not DCL's fault.

I just find it weird that people want the Edge to change to accommodate them. Maybe find another cruise line that fits your needs.

 

[DCLMP]

I completely get the more immature end of a development spectrum. My daughter is 10.5, and just asked for a Barbie Dream House for Christmas. Where a lot of others going into middle school are starting to be concerned less with dolls and make believe, my daughter is still fully invested. I don't see this magically changing by 6 months from now. I would never trust her in Edge alone by this June, she just isn't there based on what I read above.

I'm not sure how being immature means you can't follow basic rules. I don't think the activities at the Edge are anything not age-appropriate. There are going to be kids in there the same age in all different stages of development. No different than in school.

 

[Bruno33]

When you have a child whom you know struggles with maturity level it means they may not be best suited for something. And no I was not talking about a cruise ship not being designed for a 3 year old obviously..and I'm not sure why you keep mentioning that. A 3 year old is a toddler. An 11 year old is way different than a toddler. A 3 year old's developmental capabilities are so far different than an 11 year old and we all know that.

However, there's a very large difference between parents who are upset because they had siblings who now may be separated and they didn't get anywhere near the level of notice they should have nor can they alter their cruise without penalties due to the timing and a parent discussing their child's immaturity level and laying it all out on DCL.

Like any cruise line they are not designed for a particular child's developmental stages that may not match the majority. DCL is a mainstream cruise line meant for the masses. In that case you as the parent truly have two choices which is to have your child with you at all times or forgo the cruise for the moment. Depending on one's situation bringing someone on board who can watch your child could be done but that's not something that I think DCL is a common cruise line for that (i.e. bringing a nanny or such).

You're absolutely right every family gets to decide what is appropriate for their family but that is not on DCL when you make particular choices knowing your child's capabilities. Saying your child is immature is never the same as saying the child has special needs nor should anyone assume that saying a child is immature means they have special needs. It does however mean they may struggle with adhering to rules set forth by parents or by those in authority, or like another person mentioned easily swayed by older kids. These things put the child in a situation where they are unlikely to be properly suited for a situation where they are away from their parents and if the parents are wanting alone time (which they absolutely deserve) a cruise may not be best suited for this at this moment.

In a nutshell policy change only affects certain situations. A child who is being described as immature no policy change is responsible for that.

I’m so confused by your take here.

PP has a kid that she wants NOT to have self check-in/check out privileges. So she books DCL, where kid can be in Kids Club and will be secure. Perfectly appropriate and safe situation for kid.

Shortly before the cruise, DCL changes the policy. So the situation that PP expected and booked based on no longer exists.

How is PP wrong here? She was supposed to know that DCL was going to change this? This has nothing to do with the cruise being a bad place for the kid? This has to do with the amenities that PP booked and paid for being removed, and then being given incorrect information.

 

[AZMermaid]

The Edge has been the same for years. It's never been supervised. The poster made comments about Dinsey failing this age group. Disney has never failed this age group. Tweens have been enjoying the Edge for years without CMs supervising their every move. I find it hard to believe a CM would say this. That's not DCL's policy. An error by the CM if it was said, but certainly not DCL's fault.

I just find it weird that people want the Edge to change to accommodate them. Maybe find another cruise line that fits your needs.

I’ve been on DCLs side this whole time and still am. I find no issue with the change (once people were allowed to get refunds) and agree that most tweens are ready for and craving the independence of Edge. I absolutely do not want any changes to Edge to accommodate nervous parents.

But. In this case. This parent has in writing 2 days before their cruise, 4 days after the policy was announced (if I’m understanding the timeline):

You should still be able to set it up with the Youth Club Counselors, for an adult to have to check children out of the club, so they aren't able to leave unsupervised.

I’m not at all saying the onboard CMs should have changed a thing. It sounds like even the OP understands they could not do this, but they tried to find a compromise when she showed the email she was sent days earlier.

Shoreside CMs did the onboard CMs and this guest dirty. If it was just a rogue bad email CM, even then, if not DCLs fault… whose is it? Doesn’t guest services email represent DCL? If I get an email from disneycruiseline, am I not to believe it?

 

[Bruno33]

I just find it weird that people want the Edge to change to accommodate them. Maybe find another cruise line that fits your needs.

They PIF with their kid being eligible for the Kids Club. They literally DID find a cruise line that fits their needs! They found DCL, where their kid could be secure, and then that was taken away.

What other option did they have?

 

[AZMermaid]

They PIF with their kid being eligible for the Kids Club. They literally DID find a cruise line that fits their needs! They found DCL, where their kid could be secure, and then that was taken away.

What other option did they have?

Well they can cancel and get a refund.

But the above poster wasnt given correct and didn't think she needed to.

 

[Marthasor]

When you have a child whom you know struggles with maturity level it means they may not be best suited for something. And no I was not talking about a cruise ship not being designed for a 3 year old obviously..and I'm not sure why you keep mentioning that. A 3 year old is a toddler. An 11 year old is way different than a toddler. A 3 year old's developmental capabilities are so far different than an 11 year old and we all know that.

However, there's a very large difference between parents who are upset because they had siblings who now may be separated and they didn't get anywhere near the level of notice they should have nor can they alter their cruise without penalties due to the timing and a parent discussing their child's immaturity level and laying it all out on DCL.

Like any cruise line they are not designed for a particular child's developmental stages that may not match the majority. DCL is a mainstream cruise line meant for the masses. In that case you as the parent truly have two choices which is to have your child with you at all times or forgo the cruise for the moment. Depending on one's situation bringing someone on board who can watch your child could be done but that's not something that I think DCL is a common cruise line for that (i.e. bringing a nanny or such).

You're absolutely right every family gets to decide what is appropriate for their family but that is not on DCL when you make particular choices knowing your child's capabilities. Saying your child is immature is never the same as saying the child has special needs nor should anyone assume that saying a child is immature means they have special needs. It does however mean they may struggle with adhering to rules set forth by parents or by those in authority, or like another person mentioned easily swayed by older kids. These things put the child in a situation where they are unlikely to be properly suited for a situation where they are away from their parents and if the parents are wanting alone time (which they absolutely deserve) a cruise may not be best suited for this at this moment.

In a nutshell policy change only affects certain situations. A child who is being described as immature no policy change is responsible for that.

Um, yes a policy change is responsible for that. If parents of 11 and 12 year olds felt their children were better suited in a secure, supervised environment like Lab/Club, booked a cruise based on existing policy and then that policy is revoked without any consideration for the family, that's on the cruise line. This has nothing to do with siblings and it doesn't matter what the reasoning is behind the parents decision that Lab/Club is better suited for their child than Edge (in our case, it wasn't a matter of "maturity" or not following rules). It has to do with selling an amenity and then taking it away. I think you are completely missing the point. You really think, with a week's notice, OP should have hired a nanny or canceled their cruise and lost all of their money? It may be very likely that if these families knew only Edge was going to be available for their 11 and 12 year olds, they would NOT have sailed on DCL - that's the whole point. No one was given the option to cancel. In fact, OP was given incorrect information when trying to get clarification on the new policy so they could prepare accordingly for the cruise. I think you are completely missing the point. An amenity was advertised, guests paid multiple thousands of dollars for these cruises, DCL changed the policy after PIF (and they did that on purpose, IMHO). To imply that the parents or their child is somehow deficient because they now had to pivot on a dime and try to make a different scenario work when they had zero time to prepare is really unfair, IMHO.

 

[Marthasor]

Well they can cancel and get a refund.

But the above poster wasnt given correct and didn't think she needed to.

OP was 100% in the penalty phase - DCL was not offering blanket refunds for guests who were affected by this policy change.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I’m so confused by your take here.

PP has a kid that she wants NOT to have self check-in/check out privileges. So she books DCL, where kid can be in Kids Club and will be secure. Perfectly appropriate and safe situation for kid.

Shortly before the cruise, DCL changes the policy. So the situation that PP expected and booked based on no longer exists.

How is PP wrong here? She was supposed to know that DCL was going to change this? This has nothing to do with the cruise being a bad place for the kid? This has to do with the amenities that PP booked and paid for being removed, and then being given incorrect information.

Between the several threads out there some do give off the expectation that the employees within the clubs are there to stop their kid from doing what they aren't supposed to do according to their parents rules. I understand about the check in/check out part between Edge and Oceaneer's Club but if you can't trust your child to adhere to not checking themselves out when you've told them they can't putting them in a club (any club) is iffy.

DCL employees before the cruise were at fault for giving the PP incorrect information regarding always being told when their child left the kid's club. At the same time what kind of system was set up with the parent and child regarding what happens if they do or just a general system such as go back to the stateroom and wait or go to the location where the parent said they would be to physically talk to them. That's all rhetorical now but it's what prompted part of comment.

The kid's clubs are amenities meant for the masses but not every child is best suited for them for one reason or another. And I didn't say the PP was wrong, they were given wrong information, but is it the fault of DCL that their child is as they describe immature? No.

 

[Marthasor]

I hope I have been clear that this is not the fault of the CMs on board. They tried their best, but there simply isn't a process in place. They were as shocked as we were. I did not make any negative comments about the staff, nor will I even mention the ship that we were on. I did not even comment negatively on comment cards, because I can honestly say they tried to work with us. Truly, everyone went above and beyond, and the fault lies with whomever is making these decisions without notice to anyone...guests or staff. I simply wish I had notice to make different decision about how to spend my family vacation. I know my kids best, and none of these judgmental questions posted here can change that.

My point in posting was #1 to inform those who may be in similar circumstances so that they may plan accordingly for their own families.

And #2, to process this so that I can send a response to Disney in a clear informative manner, rather than an emotional stress-out mom manner. I don't expect a response, but maybe enough voices will help find a solution...even if it doesn't work for me, at least future cruisers can know what to expect. Really, that's all I wanted...to know what to expect so I could plan accordingly. It's not about my child's maturity or my parenting style, or what you think I should do. It's about letting someone know what to expect when they plan for something as big as a family cruise. This isn't just like a day at the zoo. This is a big deal to most of us. I planned for a long time...6 days is not enough notice for this big of a change.

Thank you to those of you who have actually read my posts and commiserated with me. And an extra special thank you to the CMs that may be here. Without you there would be no magic at all.

I commend you for how you have handled all of this and for sharing the information with all of us. I really hope you get a response from DCL. IMHO, every family that was affected by this policy change within a financial penalty phase should have been contacted personally and given some options, including a refund. The level of customer service that was exhibited by DCL management in this circumstance is abysmal. I'm sorry you had such a bad experience.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I completely get the more immature end of a development spectrum. My daughter is 10.5, and just asked for a Barbie Dream House for Christmas. Where a lot of others going into middle school are starting to be concerned less with dolls and make believe, my daughter is still fully invested. I don't see this magically changing by 6 months from now. I would never trust her in Edge alone by this June, she just isn't there based on what I read above.

I do agree with DCLMP on the immature does not equal not being able to follow basic rules. It can be part of it but doesn't mean it's an inherent part to it.

Your 10 1/2 year old playing with Barbies does not make them immature. Have you heard of Bratz dolls which has a line specifically for tweens and teens? I think it's great your child still has that great imagination for play but if they are still playing with them longer than their specific peers it doesn't make them immature because of it.

The way people are describing their children when they say immature, at least the way it's reading to me, is as an issue with either trust, being able to follow what parents have said, being able to listen to directions of the employees, not to go off with older kids (part of trust really), easily led by others and more. Quite frankly I was pretty startled by the poster bringing up her daughter's beauty as a reason they struggle with their maturity level.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Um, yes a policy change is responsible for that. If parents of 11 and 12 year olds felt their children were better suited in a secure, supervised environment like Lab/Club, booked a cruise based on existing policy and then that policy is revoked without any consideration for the family, that's on the cruise line. This has nothing to do with siblings and it doesn't matter what the reasoning is behind the parents decision that Lab/Club is better suited for their child than Edge (in our case, it wasn't a matter of "maturity" or not following rules). It has to do with selling an amenity and then taking it away. I think you are completely missing the point. You really think, with a week's notice, OP should have hired a nanny or canceled their cruise and lost all of their money? It may be very likely that if these families knew only Edge was going to be available for their 11 and 12 year olds, they would NOT have sailed on DCL - that's the whole point. No one was given the option to cancel. In fact, OP was given incorrect information when trying to get clarification on the new policy so they could prepare accordingly for the cruise. I think you are completely missing the point. An amenity was advertised, guests paid multiple thousands of dollars for these cruises, DCL changed the policy after PIF (and they did that on purpose, IMHO). To imply that the parents or their child is somehow deficient because they now had to pivot on a dime and try to make a different scenario work when they had zero time to prepare is really unfair, IMHO.

It's okay if you disagree with my viewpoint but laughing at it well we're all able to convey are thoughts and opinions without laughing at one another I would think.

There's conflating two different points being talked about. I'm specifically speaking towards parents who say their child is immature and DCL is responsible for that because of the policy change. The policy change affects people differently for sure but if your child is immature whatever age the club is set up for isn't the issue. People are looking at it from their kid that happens to fall within the age affected or they are upset that 11 and 12 year olds are now being added to Edge. That's just rotten luck. But that's not the true issue if the problem someone mentions over and over that their child is immature for their age.

Do I think the PP should have cancelled their cruise and lost their money? IDK that would have been up to the PP on weighing the pros and cons.

I have never disagreed with people on finding fault with DCL just throwing this at people (I've now said that several times) and don't think it's right. I said quite pointedly that DCL did people dirty. I just objected to people saying their kid was immature and this change is DCL's fault.

I didn't say the OP should hire a nanny and I specifically said it's not something that I would say is common on DCL. You have put words in my mouth now several times and would politely ask you to stop. Deficient where are you getting that from? Poster's are describing their own children as immature. Again please stop.

Let's agree to disagree shall we and move on

 

[DCLMP]

They PIF with their kid being eligible for the Kids Club. They literally DID find a cruise line that fits their needs! They found DCL, where their kid could be secure, and then that was taken away.

What other option did they have?

The post had nothing to do with getting a refund. It was all about the Edge not being secure. The edge has always been what it is. Do I think people who don't want to give their kids some freedom get a refund...yes, but no need to change something that's worked for decades for a small minority. There are other options out there.

 

[DCLMP]

Quite frankly I was pretty startled by the poster bringing up her daughter's beauty as a reason they struggle with their maturity level.

I also found that strange. If your daughter is beautiful at age 11 she's probably going to be the same all through her teens and if she's fortunate most of her life. I found that strange especially when they said they wouldn't be able to cruise Disney anymore if she didn't change. You can't keep your kid under lock and key forever. If anything I think that would make them more rebellious.

 

[AZMermaid]

OP was 100% in the penalty phase - DCL was not offering blanket refunds for guests who were affected by this policy change.

Many others have reported they were offered refunds even into the penalty phases. Not the first 1-2 days that this came out, but then DCL reversed course.

But I agree that OP never considered the refund because she was given false information.

 

[DCLMP]

I hope I have been clear that this is not the fault of the CMs on board. They tried their best, but there simply isn't a process in place. They were as shocked as we were. I did not make any negative comments about the staff, nor will I even mention the ship that we were on. I did not even comment negatively on comment cards, because I can honestly say they tried to work with us. Truly, everyone went above and beyond, and the fault lies with whomever is making these decisions without notice to anyone...guests or staff. I simply wish I had notice to make different decision about how to spend my family vacation. I know my kids best, and none of these judgmental questions posted here can change that.

My point in posting was #1 to inform those who may be in similar circumstances so that they may plan accordingly for their own families.

And #2, to process this so that I can send a response to Disney in a clear informative manner, rather than an emotional stress-out mom manner. I don't expect a response, but maybe enough voices will help find a solution...even if it doesn't work for me, at least future cruisers can know what to expect. Really, that's all I wanted...to know what to expect so I could plan accordingly. It's not about my child's maturity or my parenting style, or what you think I should do. It's about letting someone know what to expect when they plan for something as big as a family cruise. This isn't just like a day at the zoo. This is a big deal to most of us. I planned for a long time...6 days is not enough notice for this big of a change.

Thank you to those of you who have actually read my posts and commiserated with me. And an extra special thank you to the CMs that may be here. Without you there would be no magic at all.

Didn't your kid do what he was supposed to do? He went to the club for the invasion and then came back to the Edge. He was never lost wandering around the ship crying. You were the one that was upset. You say your kid is immature, but it doesn't sound like he did anything wrong. Did your kid have fun? Was his cruise ruined or was it just ruined for you?

 

[AZMermaid]

I completely get the more immature end of a development spectrum. My daughter is 10.5, and just asked for a Barbie Dream House for Christmas. Where a lot of others going into middle school are starting to be concerned less with dolls and make believe, my daughter is still fully invested. I don't see this magically changing by 6 months from now. I would never trust her in Edge alone by this June, she just isn't there based on what I read above.

FWIW- I got my almost 12 year old daughter the bitty baby doll set for her American Girl doll. She LOVED her Bitty Baby forever so when I saw this…. I had to get it for her. She refuses to give up her Barbie house and still plays dolls to decompress. I know it’s winding down… but it’s still something she loves. She’s also calling everyone dude, is obsessed with her friends and is dabbling with makeup. I trust her to walk to the grocery store or McDonalds and back- not terribly far, but on the main road. So she’s independent and ready… but still loves those dolls! She’d probably still do a BBB makeover without the dress in a heartbeat. She loved the Edge at 10.75.

 

[lanejudy]

I keep seeing references to Edge being unsupervised. This is not true. Edge IS SUPERVISED, it just does not restrict leaving. I think that's where there may be a bit of a disconnect. A family who would prefer their child go to Club/Lab are looking for that restricted access. "Immature" may come in different forms -- but seriously any neurotypical 11-12 year old should be capable of following basic rules from their parents. A rule of "do not leave the physical space without contacting Mom/Dad" should suffice -- with appropriate penalty if the rule isn't followed. Then follow-through as necessary.

I am in full agreement that the disconnect between shoreside and onboard CMs is just wrong, and shoreside should not be putting inaccurate info out there. Unfortunately, though, it happens with regards to many things throughout the year. But once onboard and the YA CMs obviously weren't prepared to contact the parents, any family already familiar with Edge should have known to put "the rule" into place before sending the child -- and actually, it sounds like the child stayed with the planned programming, it was the parents who didn't understand the Club Invasion (an activity many have stated needs to be in place so their kids don't miss-out on the expected play activities).

 

[KrzyKtty101]

I'm not sure how being immature means you can't follow basic rules. I don't think the activities at the Edge are anything not age-appropriate. There are going to be kids in there the same age in all different stages of development. No different than in school.

Honestly, Edge is vastly to boring for her. Without the art stations, Marvel make believe, star wars and the like, she would have 0 interest in Edge.

That being said I would never say that Edge isn't age appropriate. I just knew from 5 seconds of googling at pictures that it wasn't appropriate for her.