Live Action Snow White - too far a departure from the original?

[nancipants]

All strong women in the recent releases are great, but the men are sidelined. They are either villain, comic relief / funny sidekick, even Kristoff didn't get to rescue Anna in Frozen 2.

Oh, but he does something even more important than rescuing her. When Anna needs help, he says "I'm here. What do you need?" Talk about swoonworthy.

 

[Karin1984]

Oh, but he does something even more important than rescuing her. When Anna needs help, he says "I'm here. What do you need?" Talk about swoonworthy.

Kristoff is a Ken, and if I remember well completely irrelevant to the plot of Frozen 2.

• Ken : I just don't know who I am without you.
  Barbie : You're Ken.
  Ken : But it's Barbie and Ken. There's no just Ken. That's why I was created. I only exist within the warmth of your gaze. Without it, I'm just a little blonde guy who can't do flips.

 

[BrianL]

Oh, but he does something even more important than rescuing her. When Anna needs help, he says "I'm here. What do you need?" Talk about swoonworthy.

Yeah, I mean, the stars of Frozen are the sisters, so Kristoff becomes a bit ancilliary, but that's okay. Compare it to Tangled, where Flynn and Raps are pretty well co-stars and on even footing. That was intentional to give it both male and female leads so as to appeal to boys as well as girls.

None of it is really a problem. Just because on one movie one guy isn't the ultimate hero savior, shouldn't be a trigger for male fragility. There are still tough-guys out there. Tough-gals too!

 

[Karin1984]

Yeah, Flynn was the last one, 13 years ago.
2012 - Brave, all the men are funny sidekicks, there for comic relief.
2013 - Frozen, Hans is not a well-written villain and Kristoff has to take a backseat. From the male characters, Olaf is more important at the end of the movie.
2016 - Moana, Maui is portrayed as the funny sidekick.
2019 - Frozen 2, do any of the men in this movie matter?
2021 - Raya, all the men are sidekicks? I have seen it once and don't really remember it.
2022 - Encanto, I think I would put Bruno in the same category as Maui.

Strong male leads who can stand next to a strong female lead are rare in Princess movies. I really think it's because Disney is putting so much focus on improving the image of the Princess and making sure "they don'tneed/want a man", they forgot about making the Prince characters interesting.

And I think this reflects in Zegler's comments about the prince and how she will portray Snow White.

Not saying it is triggering male fragility, that is up to men. I am not a man

 

[BrianL]

Yeah, Flynn was the last one, 13 years ago.
2012 - Brave, all the men are funny sidekicks, there for comic relief.
2013 - Frozen, Hans is not a well-written villain and Kristoff has to take a backseat. From the male characters, Olaf is more important at the end of the movie.
2016 - Moana, Maui is portrayed as the funny sidekick.
2019 - Frozen 2, do any of the men in this movie matter?
2021 - Raya, all the men are sidekicks? I have seen it once and don't really remember it.
2022 - Encanto, I think I would put Bruno in the same category as Maui.

Strong male leads who can stand next to a strong female lead are rare in Princess movies. I really think it's because Disney is putting so much focus on improving the image of the Princess and making sure "they don'tneed/want a man", they forgot about making the Prince characters interesting.

And I think this reflects in Zegler's comments about the prince and how she will portray Snow White.

Not saying it is triggering male fragility, that is up to men. I am not a man

But, they are Princess movies - shouldn't the princess be the star? Even in the older ones, the princess is still the primary antagonist - sure Eric steers the ship into Ursula, but other than that he doesn't do a lot and is generally pretty bland. Also, one can be funny and heroic - I think Maui definitely is.

 

[PrincessJo]

I just bought the original movie on DVD. I'll be watching that instead of this ridiculous remake.

Disney's stock is tanking. That says it all.

 

[Karin1984]

But, they are Princess movies - shouldn't the princess be the star? Even in the older ones, the princess is still the primary antagonist - sure Eric steers the ship into Ursula, but other than that he doesn't do a lot and is generally pretty bland. Also, one can be funny and heroic - I think Maui definitely is.

Yes, it's the princess' story, but the prince could be considered doing something heroic or vital. In both the broadway musical as the live action remake, Ariel has to rescue herself, Eric is pushed even more to the back. A woman cannot be rescued by a man anymore, not even in the face of danger.

Disney makes the women shine by pushing the men out.

Maui is interesting, but when I think of him, I remember mainly funny one liners and You're Welcome and not him actually doing something useful.

If we say Snow, Cinderella, Aurora were products of their time, and not the best role models (in certain aspects) then what are we telling boys 50 years from now about their current portrayal?

 

[ttintagel]

I don't mind the changes. As others have pointed out, the story had been told for centuries, with more variations than you can shake a stick at, long before Walt and the gang put their stamp on it in 1937. And if you're going to make a movie in 2023 it wouldn't make a ton of sense to make everything the same as a movie from nearly a century ago. Times have changed, tastes have changed, and sensibilities have changed.

However, I also agree that they could spare themselves the aggravation by focusing on new stories instead. Trying to please everyone can be a tricky balance, and you sometimes end up by pleasing no one.

 

[BrianL]

Yes, it's the princess' story, but the prince could be considered doing something heroic or vital. In both the broadway musical as the live action remake, Ariel has to rescue herself, Eric is pushed even more to the back. A woman cannot be rescued by a man anymore, not even in the face of danger.

Disney makes the women shine by pushing the men out.

Maui is interesting, but when I think of him, I remember mainly funny one liners and You're Welcome and not him actually doing something useful.

If we say Snow, Cinderella, Aurora were products of their time, and not the best role models (in certain aspects) then what are we telling boys 50 years from now about their current portrayal?

Maui jumps right in to The Realm of Monsters, without hesitation, before he even has his hook back. Sure he waffles later about their chance for success, as does Moana. In the end he shows up to help. Aside from that, while, sure, Kristoff didn't exactly have a lot to do in Forzen II, he's hardly protrayed as some kind of doofus - he's actually a very positive role-model - just a really good guy. What about the non-princess movies too - the ones with male leads? Big Hero 6 and Strange World both have male leads. Zootopia has pretty good male/female co-stars. Not everything plays the same. Some stuff is going to focus on the female characters and let them shine - some stuff will take it another way. It's not like it's a conspiracy or anything. I don't understand why people are so sensitive about it.

 

[longboard55]

So do we really want 50 princesses. The Disney formulae works. Don't change a thing

 

[IdahoDisneyFan]

To me it doesn’t seem that complicated, if you’re making a live action “remake” of an animated movie that people are familiar with you probably shouldn’t stray too far from the original story. If you’re not having 7 dwarves then why make the movie at all? Would you make Beauty and the Beast without Beast? Or Aladdin without Genie? Of course not. If it’s offensive to use dwarves don’t make the movie, although who is the arbiter of that?

I’m not personally offended by a Latin actress as the lead, but clearly some of the audience will find it a confusing choice in the same way that changing the race of Ariel was jarring to some. My daughters both reacted that way to the first trailer. Ultimately we saw the movie in theater and loved it, but I guarantee they lost a sizable box office audience by that choice.

Regarding Ms. Zegler, it must be nice to have the “privilege” of trashing one of your employer’s most iconic products without getting fired.

My biggest complaint with any of the recent box office bombs is clearly there are few folks at Disney entertainment with enough common sense to recognize what will pull large audiences and what won’t. When these productions underperform financially it effects spending elsewhere, including at the parks, which is my main area of fandom.

I would be absolutely shocked if Snow White is a financial success and won’t be surprised if it actually loses money. From a marketing perspective I don’t think you can recover from Ms. Zegler’s comments and the lack of dwarves in a movie with dwarves as main characters.

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

Double post

 

[PolymerSkywalker]

This actress comes off as one the most unlikable people I have seen, she alone will tank this movie, if they even release it at this point

Good thing for Brie Larson is Ziegler is dethroning Larson as the easiest Actress to dislike in Hollywood.

Queen Brie has shut her trap, and that’s a good thing as it gives the Marvels a chance to succeed.

 

[Babs Johnson]

It is a 200 year old story that has been made into movies at least 24 plus times, including Snow White and the Three Stooges. It is just one more. Some will hate it, some will like it, some might love it and most won't see it.

I'll take DS because he loves Snow White even though I don't.

Probably just another average movie, I don't expect a hit out of it.

Snow White and the Three Stooges



Carol Heise, gold medal winner in figure skating in 1960 was Snow White. I saw this maybe 50 years ago. It was pretty bad.

 

[Mysterian]

Yes, it's the princess' story, but the prince could be considered doing something heroic or vital. In both the broadway musical as the live action remake, Ariel has to rescue herself, Eric is pushed even more to the back. A woman cannot be rescued by a man anymore, not even in the face of danger.

Disney makes the women shine by pushing the men out.

Maui is interesting, but when I think of him, I remember mainly funny one liners and You're Welcome and not him actually doing something useful.

If we say Snow, Cinderella, Aurora were products of their time, and not the best role models (in certain aspects) then what are we telling boys 50 years from now about their current portrayal?

Maui taught Moana how to navigate, and played a part in the final confrontation with Te Ka. Granted, it was Moana that set things right (in a way which I really enjoyed, despite some fans complaining that the movie "didn't have a true villain").

And ok, Maui was the reason that Te Ka came to be in the first place, but he gets his redemption story here.

I loved Moana. I'm actually pleased there was no typical princess romantic subplot to her story, as her whole drive and purpose were pivotal to the plot of the movie.

 

[JaxDad]

It was pretty bad.

Well, it had Curly Joe instead of Curly (or even Shemp), so it was never going to be that great.

 

[Mysterian]

But, they are Princess movies - shouldn't the princess be the star? Even in the older ones, the princess is still the primary antagonist - sure Eric steers the ship into Ursula, but other than that he doesn't do a lot and is generally pretty bland. Also, one can be funny and heroic - I think Maui definitely is.

Yeah, I don't mind princess movies being female-driven, it seems like it's part of the package of princess fairy tales. The core demographic is young girls, just as predominantly male Marvel is big with young boys.

Most of those princes in the classic movies were kinda useless anyway. Charming couldn't recognize Cinderella in a line-up, so he needs everyone to try on a shoe, OJ trial style?

Snow White's prince was mostly a shiftless trust fund kid.

Now Prince Phillip was probably one of the few princes that wasn't a sop. That dude could clear your yard of branches in record time. With weapons from the fairies, he took Malefi-dragon head on and killed one of the coolest Disney villains ever.

The only Disney prince who had a leading role was Aladdin, who only became a prince by marriage (and by magic, earlier on. You may have seen the movie, you're on a Disney board, people).

 

[BrianL]

Yeah, I don't mind princess movies being female-driven, it seems like it's part of the package of princess fairy tales. The core demographic is young girls, just as predominantly male Marvel is big with young boys.

Most of those princes in the classic movies were kinda useless anyway. Charming couldn't recognize Cinderella in a line-up, so he needs everyone to try on a shoe, OJ trial style?

Snow White's prince was mostly a shiftless trust fund kid.

Now Prince Philip was probably one of the few princes that wasn't a sop. That dude could clear your yard of branches in record time. With weapons from the fairies, he took Malefi-dragon head on and killed one of the coolest Disney villains ever.

The only Disney prince who had a leading role was Aladdin, who only became a prince by marriage (and by magic, earlier on. You may have seen the movie, you're on a Disney board, people).

Oh, yeah - Prince Phillip is bona-fide action hero. I remember seeing some little online description of why he is just so awesome, fighting goblins, and scaling the cliffside one-handed to fight the dragon. He's been there before. Like, if he were a D&D character, he's a Paladin and has been out ridding the countryside of evil with his mighty steed Samson. He is really the hero of the movie too. His fight with Maleficent is so epic - it's like my favorite sequence of Disney animation.

 

[Mysterian]

Oh, yeah - Prince Phillip is bona-fide action hero. I remember seeing some little online description of why he is just so awesome, fighting goblins, and scaling the cliffside one-handed to fight the dragon. He's been there before. Like, if he were a D&D character, he's a Paladin and has been out ridding the countryside of evil with his mighty steed Samson. He is really the hero of the movie too. His fight with Maleficent is so epic - it's like my favorite sequence of Disney animation.

That whole movie is in IMO the visually best of all Disney 2D animated films.

 

[BrianL]

That whole movie is in IMO the visually best of all Disney 2D animated films.

I agree. The work of Eyvind Earle really stands out! Those backgrounds - they have such a dreamy quality to them.