Now they're going after Halloween

[tcufrog]

Pray tell, please share with us all the wonderful activities planned for "William Mitchell Day." Let's see, given it can't it involve any Halloween activities, the bureaucrats running the event will inevitably plan on generic fall events that are already readily available all over New England. Oh, yeah, apple bobbing -- if that already hasn't been banned in Needham for safety reasons -- hay rides (behind a loud, polluting tractor), apple picking (albeit I doubt the park they are using is an orchard), pumpkin carving? no, that won't be allowed because it related to Halloween ( and is kind of silly to be doing over a week after that holiday and just three weeks away from Thanksgiving). Oh, I know, they'll make a "game" out "who knows the most about William Mitchell." Fun, fun. fun....

Maybe instead of Halloween costumes they could have a William Mitchell lookalike contest.

 

[Hikergirl]

I provided an answer, which was either ignored or (for whatever reason) wasn't comprehended.

To make it more clear, said answer pointed out something I already mentioned days ago in a prior post, but which bears repeating: those who think we can create a world where no one is ever offended and everyone is always treated equally in all ways is living in a fantasy realm.

Like I said, you've got no answer to that question that you are willing to say here. It's OK, we know why you won't give a real answer. You have an issue with little kids wanting to be included in the things their classmates are doing. They need to either accept your idea of tradition and participate, or to hell with them.
You can try to disguise it anyway you like, but we all know what you really mean with your deflection.

 

[cjbcam]

Like I said, you've got no answer to that question that you are willing to say here. It's OK, we know why you won't give a real answer. You have an issue with little kids wanting to be included in the things their classmates are doing. They need to either accept your idea of tradition and participate, or to hell with them.
You can try to disguise it anyway you like, but we all know what you really mean with your deflection.

I believe she is saying even having something like purple and orange day will offend someone and their kid will not be able to participate. I agree with her.

 

[wonder whisper]

Maybe instead of Halloween costumes they could have a William Mitchell lookalike contest.

Speaking of William Mitchell, the elementary school in Needham bearing his name seems to be a hotbed of controversy. Look at the very "un-inclusive" thing that happened there back in September (before the ruckus over Halloween started):

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...ol-bathroom/kBmVp4TbpRC83ik2s8HFFN/story.html

As for the Mitchell look-alikes contest, here are some hot candidates:

First, here is the school namesake, William Mitchell:

Look-alike candidates:

Vice President Pence:

Roger T. "Brace" Bannon, a character from the 1960s "Johnny Quest" cartoon series:

John Slattery from Mad Men

 

[Hikergirl]

I believe she is saying even having something like purple and orange day will offend someone and their kid will not be able to participate. I agree with her.

I know what she is saying

 

[Suger Mag]

Maybe instead of Halloween costumes they could have a William Mitchell lookalike contest.

you know... I was on the fence as to what/who I was going to dress up as this year, for Halloween/Black_Orange day... but this thread has convinced me... William Mitchell it is!

 

[wonder whisper]

So wait. Your answer on "Why is it bad to do something all kids can participate in?" is basically "Someone will be offended and the life isn't fair"? .

Key term in your realm: ALL kids.

Again, you repeatedly focus on ALL.

Well, here's the reality in school:

Can all children participate in all sports? NO - some may have disabilities that don't allow them to, or they don't like particular (or all) sports.
Can all children participate in band or orchestra? NO - because not all want to (or feel they have the talent and ambition to) take up learning to play an instrument.
Can all children participate in drama or musicals by getting speaking and/or singing roles? NO - because there are not enough roles to accommodate everyone and some students have more innate or developed talent for that sort of activity than others.
Can all students participate in accelerated or advanced coursework? NO - because some students learn faster or more substantively than others.

So there is no such thing in the school realm as your fantasy vision of "all kids can participate in (insert subject). Including fabricated substitute "holidays" that inevitably still end up being un-inclusive. How so? Because in our present environment, it is almost guaranteed someone will feel some aspect of your supposed "something all kids can participate in" event (the 11/9 William-Mitchell Harvest-Festival- Community-Autumn-Celebration-thing-whatever) is "offensive" or "incompatible with their values or preferences".

Heck, that could include families boycotting it due to their being annoyed at the cancellation of the Halloween Parade. Which if that happens should be a message to Principal Gregory Bayse about his performance in improving "inclusiveness" amongst the families his school serves.

And lastly, 11/9 is a school day. Why is time being taken out of the regular curriculum for some vague, amorphous "substitute holiday," one that for all we know may have no unique aspects that families and children couldn't enjoy on their own outside of school?

 

[RedAngie]

Then comes the Happy Holidays vs. Merry Christmas thread

Before that, I expect the thread with posters denouncing the fact some stores and malls open on Thanksgiving Day. By posters with signature lines indicating they'll be at WDW on Thanksgiving Day shopping at Disney Springs.

 

[wonder whisper]

Interestingly, the trend in my own experience and according to my friends in retail has been some backing off on the "Happy Holidays" thing. It became a flashoint so quickly that many of the big department stores almost over compensated.

Example: on a trip I made to a Dillards last December while in Texas on a business trip, I literally got buried in "Merry Christmas" greetings wherever I went in the store. I actually began to wonder if the staff had been trained to use TSA-type profiling to segment customers into categories ("Merry Christmas definitely OK for her, but iffy for that guy at the other end of the counter...."

 

[ELKA]

So wait. Your answer on "Why is it bad to do something all kids can participate in?" is basically "Someone will be offended and the life isn't fair"?
Isn't that like answering "Why is the sky blue?" with "Kumquats"?

Now, regarding your Redbook article, I totally agree. Well, not totally. I think Redbook is WAY off base, but I don't think it's politicizing Halloween.

But it is. Telling a girl who is not Polynesian that she can’t dress as Moana because she is white is making it political. What about a white girl who wants to dress as Tiana? People are now saying cultural appropriation if that happens. Again someone gets offended. The thing is nobody looks at the inverse, which is a Black girl wanting to be Anna, Cinderella, Snow White and others, because of skin color means that she can only be Tiana. Chinese girls are limited to Mulan.

When I was really young, I had a cast on my arm. I was with a group of my classmates and we were at a park. There was a kiddie type pool and I couldn’t go in because of my cast. Should the rest of the kids have been denied the fun of splashing and getting wet because of me? As it turned out a teacher allowed me to walk across the pool after everyone else had gone out. So my cast stayed dry and I could get cooled off.

 

[DisneyOma]

My grandmother went to a segregated school. It was a tradition.

Again, people in the minority dictating what the majority will do all this inclusiveness is just ruining the American culture.

I hope all the traditionalists on this thread get extra CANDY for their ARTfully created sock puppets on black and orange day.

Huh? The majority - whites, - made segregated schools. Are you are saying that is good?

 

[msjprincess]

Huh? The majority - whites, - made segregated schools. Are you are saying that is good?

I'm pretty sure that was sarcasm.

 

[luvsJack]

Key term in your realm: ALL kids.

Again, you repeatedly focus on ALL.

Well, here's the reality in school:

Can all children participate in all sports? NO - some may have disabilities that don't allow them to, or they don't like particular (or all) sports.
Can all children participate in band or orchestra? NO - because not all want to (or feel they have the talent and ambition to) take up learning to play an instrument.
Can all children participate in drama or musicals by getting speaking and/or singing roles? NO - because there are not enough roles to accommodate everyone and some students have more innate or developed talent for that sort of activity than others.
Can all students participate in accelerated or advanced coursework? NO - because some students learn faster or more substantively than others.

So there is no such thing in the school realm as your fantasy vision of "all kids can participate in (insert subject). Including fabricated substitute "holidays" that inevitably still end up being un-inclusive. How so? Because in our present environment, it is almost guaranteed someone will feel some aspect of your supposed "something all kids can participate in" event (the 11/9 William-Mitchell Harvest-Festival- Community-Autumn-Celebration-thing-whatever) is "offensive" or "incompatible with their values or preferences".

Heck, that could include families boycotting it due to their being annoyed at the cancellation of the Halloween Parade. Which if that happens should be a message to Principal Gregory Bayse about his performance in improving "inclusiveness" amongst the families his school serves.

And lastly, 11/9 is a school day. Why is time being taken out of the regular curriculum for some vague, amorphous "substitute holiday," one that for all we know may have no unique aspects that families and children couldn't enjoy on their own outside of school?

I am not the principal so I don't know for sure but just by my own observations, some of the things you mention are the very reason to try to have a celebration that is inclusive of ALL children. There are already things that they can't all take part in why make it include celebrations too?

The fact is changing it may make it so that all kids CAN participate. If someone decides to pout about Halloween and keep their kids home because there is no costume parade (which if you have never had to have 26 5 year olds in costume, you have no clue what a pain it is), that is on them.

There is a difference in "my faith does not allow me to participate" and "I am mad so I will keep my kid home" or "I cannot afford a costume and I work 14 hours every night and have not been able to make a costume" and "They aren't having a parade? We will stay home and pout"

Halloween is probably the least important thing on the school's agenda for the year. Just because it's important to you and a handfull of traditionalists doesn't make it more important to them. It shouldn't be such a big deal to change it up.

 

[sam_gordon]

Can all children participate in all sports? NO - some may have disabilities that don't allow them to, or they don't like particular (or all) sports.
Can all children participate in band or orchestra? NO - because not all want to (or feel they have the talent and ambition to) take up learning to play an instrument.
Can all children participate in drama or musicals by getting speaking and/or singing roles? NO - because there are not enough roles to accommodate everyone and some students have more innate or developed talent for that sort of activity than others.
Can all students participate in accelerated or advanced coursework? NO - because some students learn faster or more substantively than others.

I thought we were talking about elementary age school children. Around here there is no school sponsored sports, band, orchestra, or accelerated coursework. until you get to Middle School. There are singing programs, but all the kids ARE involved.

It's been asked multiple times and if you've answered, I apologize, I don't remember it... How are the kids "suffering" by NOT have a Halloween celebration (keep in mind, they're having a celebration, so they still have fun, get treats, etc, there's just no costume parade... which one school is having after hours)?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Many schools did go ahead and incorporate the book. But that didn't mean that there was a ton of outrage across the country about the book.

My child's second grade teacher read it to her class. There were many parents who were up in arms, not only for the content but also for the content with second graders, but she just told them their child could go to the library. (Loved that teacher.) So glad she did because that book changed my child from a book hater to a book lover. We still have a costume parade at our schools.

Oh yeah there were tons of outrage over it no doubt about that.

I love the answer your child's teacher gave!

 

[wonder whisper]

I thought we were talking about elementary age school children. Around here there is no school sponsored sports, band, orchestra, or accelerated coursework. until you get to Middle School.

That's your environment. In mine, musical instruction , sports and advanced curriculum coursework is available starting in the 5th grade (elementary goes through 6th). my daughter started instruction in oboe in 5th grade and was part of the school orchestra later that year and through 6th grade. She also did intramural field hockey starting in 5th, but didn't start advanced coursework until 6th.

 

[sam_gordon]

That's your environment. In mine, musical instruction , sports and advanced curriculum coursework is available starting in the 5th grade (elementary goes through 6th). my daughter started instruction in oboe in 5th grade and was part of the school orchestra later that year and through 6th grade. She also did intramural field hockey starting in 5th, but didn't start advanced coursework until 6th.

Do 5th and 6th graders take part in the Costume Parade?

 

[luvsJack]

Oh yeah there were tons of outrage over it no doubt about that.

I love the answer your child's teacher gave!

Has anyone here actually ever met anyone or come face to face with someone who was truly "outraged" over Harry Potter?? Truly? I "heard" there was all this outrage. I read the news that parents were having a fit and yet I have met not one person that had a real issue with it. Not a parent, not a preacher, no one.

I live in the Deep South and am Baptist. We are supposed to be the ones with all the issues on things like Harry Potter and Halloween and yet I have never actually met or heard with my own ears anyone have an issue with either. I just don't think the "HUGE" outrage was really there.

 

[wonder whisper]

Just because it's important to you and a handfull of traditionalists.

For those who may have missed it, as I observed in an earlier post Halloween is now the second largest holiday in the U.S., in terms of consumer spending, surpassed only by Christmas (which now actually has a slower growth rate of spending than Halloween).

Which means the statement "it is only important to a handful of traditionalists" doesn't stand up to factual review. Nor what goes on at Disney:

 

[luvsJack]

For those who may have missed it, as I observed in an earlier post Halloween is now the second largest holiday in the U.S., in terms of consumer spending, surpassed only by Christmas (which now actually has a slower growth rate of spending than Halloween).

Which means the statement "it is only important to a handful of traditionalists" doesn't stand up to factual review. Nor what goes on at Disney:

Disney is a business that is a very HUGE difference between it and the schools you are referring to. Consumer spending on decorations, candy, etc. would still count those that are buying these things for "Fall Festivals", "Harvest Celebrations" etc. They don't ask the consumers which are buying specifically for "Halloween". And going to Disney for MNSSHP, doesn't mean that Halloween is important to you. Do you really think all of those folks would quit going if they suddenly changed the name to "Mickey's Harvest Hay Ride Spectacular" or some such? No they wouldn't.

But, seriously, you don't see the difference in Disney and a public school?