Paper Navigators?

[WB1971]

Tethered to a phone, tethered to a paper sheet - don't see any difference there. But your MIL's case is a genuine issue. Whether that warrants maintaining an energy-intensive printer with reams of paper fed into it every night, is a good question. Maybe the front desk can print one on demand?

In your face environmentalism is offensive. Why do you get to say for me or others that using my phone is the same as using a newspaper? The fact that we can’t have a choice to opt in is the problem. Also, you do know that trees are planted for the purpose of harvesting for paper pulp, and a good percentage of paper is recycled. Charging phones and powering Wi-Fi networks also consumes energy and resources. The only green DCL is worried about here is money, there’s no moral superiority shutting down a printer.

 

[Intr3pid]

In your face environmentalism is offensive. Why do you get to say for me or others that using my phone is the same as using a newspaper? The fact that we can’t have a choice to opt in is the problem. Also, you do know that trees are planted for the purpose of harvesting for paper pulp, and a good percentage of paper is recycled. Charging phones and powering Wi-Fi networks also consumes energy and resources. The only green DCL is worried about here is money, there’s no moral superiority shutting down a printer.

Most of your tirade is debunked in post # 24. Feel free to respond to it.

 

[Kwami]

Most of your tirade is debunked in post # 24. Feel free to respond to it.

Or you could just get over this and let us have a different opinion than yours and advocate for it here. I don't understand why you feel compelled to respond every time someone expresses a desire for paper navigators or dismisses the frankly ridiculous "environmentalism" claim that Disney is pushing here.

 

[Karin1984]

We didn't have it on the transatlantic, and I didn't miss it. The app worked fine. It was nice to get the changes they made to the schedule during the day, I loved the ability to like things and make my own schedule. By making my own schedule I could see which things overlapped.
As you cannot do much else on your phone without the internet (besides to take pictures), you are already disconnected in comparison than normal life.

 

[Intr3pid]

Or you could just get over this and let us have a different opinion than yours and advocate for it here. I don't understand why you feel compelled to respond every time someone expresses a desire for paper navigators or dismisses the frankly ridiculous "environmentalism" claim that Disney is pushing here.

A bit of constructive feedback.

1. There is an ignore feature in the forum. Use it.
2. This is a discussion forum. You are absolutely free to express your opinion. I can’t force you to be right.
3. It seems like you want to "advocate" your opinion but would dismiss someone else's as "environmentalism" or ridiculous or "get over it". Dunno how much advocacy this gets you.

I have already laid out the issues in post # 24. Disney agrees with them. My conversation here is only with folks looking to discuss those issues. You can easily continue your own advocacy without roping me in.

 

[mousefan73]

It is simple lack of customer centric service not to be able to deliver some type of print out for those who are not able to use phones.. YES believe it or not, there are some passenger who cannot use phones. it doesn't have to be heavy, color stock but just a simple chart print out in B/W in larger print, maybe a copy that staff uses.

my mom was I guess always lucky in that our servers figures out on day one getting her to use my phone and view ( that is the issue with her sight) was going to take much longer than a paper menu. We didnt even have to ask after night one. For the past 3 sailings, they always brought a paper menu after night one.

 

[Bonnie1222]

A bit of constructive feedback.

1. There is an ignore feature in the forum. Use it.
2. This is a discussion forum. You are absolutely free to express your opinion. I can’t force you to be right.
3. It seems like you want to "advocate" your opinion but would dismiss someone else's as "environmentalism" or ridiculous or "get over it". Dunno how much advocacy this gets you.

I have already laid out the issues in post # 24. Disney agrees with them. My conversation here is only with folks looking to discuss those issues. You can easily continue your own advocacy without roping me in.

Maybe you can just stop hijacking my post. I asked a question and voiced my disappointment. You are entitled to your opions as are we so please let's agree to disagree and move on.

 

[FWRR3]

Guest Services just say they have no ability to print anything at all.

Well I get them to print new crew tip tickets every cruise. The printer sits right under the counter.

 

[braysmommy]

Or you could just get over this and let us have a different opinion than yours and advocate for it here. I don't understand why you feel compelled to respond every time someone expresses a desire for paper navigators or dismisses the frankly ridiculous "environmentalism" claim that Disney is pushing here.

Agree, and if anyone is truly worried about the environment they probably shouldn't be on any cruise ship, with or without paper navigators.

 

[Annabell]

I think they should still offer the paper ones for those guests that ask for it.

 

[Kwami]

Agree, and if anyone is truly worried about the environment they probably shouldn't be on any cruise ship, with or without paper navigators.

I think that you can be worried about the environment and still cruise. It's true that cruise ships aren't great for the environment, but neither is any other vacation. Flying is bad, driving is bad, hotels are bad, eating in restaurants is bad. There's waste everywhere you go, unfortunately. I don't expect that cruising is much worse than other options and DCL goes out of its way to minimize its environmental impacts, too.

The problem with the environmental argument for navigators is that it really doesn't hold up. Disney wastes plenty of paper and ink on other things and relative to everything else, the navigators were a tiny, tiny fraction of the overall environmental impact of the cruise.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Agree, and if anyone is truly worried about the environment they probably shouldn't be on any cruise ship, with or without paper navigators.

That's the sort of argument that doesn't really get it because it's hardly that black and white. I think impacts to natural wildlife is very valid but cruise ships like many other industries are trying to stick around but find ways to work with an awareness of the impact it has which in a nutshell is the move to environmental decisions.

For instance you have ships not fueled by oil and instead fueled by LNG (Liquified Natural Gas) which has less emissions and can be more efficient in the waters. The Wish I believe is using this in part of their mechanics. It's been around for 7 or so years with Carnival starting it and it spreading to other companies.

On the Seabourn cruises they are in the process of switching to reusable ceramic coffee containers now rather than paper ones (that got more of a ruckus than paper schedules). On mega ships I'm not sure that's as realistic but with Seabourn having 600 or so max passengers (with other ships in their fleet being mid-400s to mid-200s in passenger capacity) it's more doable especially because they have a high crew to passenger ratio. I'm actually down with the change because paper can impact the taste of the coffee, ceramic does not and if you've had a coffee with icky paper taste you get it (similar to unfortunately using low quality paper straws..it's icky).

Most of what we ask companies these days is to be aware of the decisions they make and the potential impacts to the environment as a whole. You can't really completely offset everything, you can make different choices, sometimes that's more cost-saving with a side benefit to a reduced environmental impact somewhere in the day to day business and vice versa.

 

[Intr3pid]

That's the sort of argument that doesn't really get it because it's hardly that black and white. I think impacts to natural wildlife is very valid but cruise ships like many other industries are trying to stick around but find ways to work with an awareness of the impact it has which in a nutshell is the move to environmental decisions.

For instance you have ships not fueled by oil and instead fueled by LNG (Liquified Natural Gas) which has less emissions and can be more efficient in the waters. The Wish I believe is using this in part of their mechanics. It's been around for 7 or so years with Carnival starting it and it spreading to other companies.

On the Seabourn cruises they are in the process of switching to reusable ceramic coffee containers now rather than paper ones (that got more of a ruckus than paper schedules). On mega ships I'm not sure that's as realistic but with Seabourn having 600 or so max passengers (with other ships in their fleet being mid-400s to mid-200s in passenger capacity) it's more doable especially because they have a high crew to passenger ratio. I'm actually down with the change because paper can impact the taste of the coffee, ceramic does not and if you've had a coffee with icky paper taste you get it (similar to unfortunately using low quality paper straws..it's icky).

Most of what we ask companies these days is to be aware of the decisions they make and the potential impacts to the environment as a whole. You can't really completely offset everything, you can make different choices, sometimes that's more cost-saving with a side benefit to a reduced environmental impact somewhere in the day to day business and vice versa.

There are real costs to everyone involved if a small vocal minority gets carried away with naivety.

In the last 2-3 years, cruise ships - at least, the mainstream ones - have been been either kicked out of or severely limited in places such as Venice, Bora Bora, Key West, Norway, Cayman Islands, etc Or asked to port well out of town - hours away sometimes.

Princess and HAL got caught dumping in Alaskan waters, and their parent company has been flirting with bankruptcy all year long. Or, why do we think cruising was at the bottom of the re-opening priority list?

That said, good for the environment = good for bottom line too? RCL's Icon class is LNG-based. MSC's World class is LNG-based. Disney's Triton class is LNG-based. Even Carnival's new ships are. Clearly, cruise lines agree. More fuel efficient, lower maintenance, higher profit margin, AND better for the environment.

Apparently, "paper navigators are a cost-cutting measure." "Nothing to do with the environment." Very well. This year, we have spent 34 nights on DCL for less than the cost of maybe 20 in 2019. Almost 40% cheaper - on mostly packed sailings. Some Omicron, some war - but plenty of cost cutting. So, if cost cutting was my thing, I would let it be my thing.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

There are real costs to everyone involved if a small vocal minority gets carried away with naivety.

In the last 2-3 years, cruise ships - at least, the mainstream ones - have been been either kicked out of or severely limited in places such as Venice, Bora Bora, Key West, Norway, Cayman Islands, etc Or asked to port well out of town - hours away sometimes.

Princess and HAL got caught dumping in Alaskan waters, and their parent company has been flirting with bankruptcy all year long. Or, why do we think cruising was at the bottom of the re-opening priority list?

That said, good for the environment = good for bottom line too? RCL's Icon class is LNG-based. MSC's World class is LNG-based. Disney's Triton class is LNG-based. Even Carnival's new ships are. Clearly, cruise lines agree. More fuel efficient, lower maintenance, higher profit margin, AND better for the environment.

Apparently, "paper navigators are a cost-cutting measure." "Nothing to do with the environment." Very well. This year, we have spent 34 nights on DCL for less than the cost of maybe 20 in 2019. Almost 40% cheaper - on mostly packed sailings. Some Omicron, some war - but plenty of cost cutting. So, if cost cutting was my thing, I would let it be my thing.

Ugh don't even get me started on Venice. That is the port we start our cruise at and it's not been easy for them to pin down where to pick people up.

One cruise had a change to Ravenna which is hours away and would be a disaster to us as we're about to book our hotel for Murano. Another one picked up at Marghera which is the one Seabourn has advised is the one ours will be but they pick you up on the main island of Venice and bus you on a short trip to the terminal but then the ship a few weeks back was ported in Fusina located about 10 mins away from Marghera.

We knew about Venice not allowing large ships (the largest ship Seabourn has is almost 42,000GT), we knew about having to reserve and pay if you didn't stay overnight (we'll be in Venice 2 nights before our cruise although cruises I believe are exempted anyhow) but we did not realize how fluid the situation is with the cruise port itself. There are obvious reasons Italy went to this way to help lessen the damaging effects of cruise ships to the ports and lessen the tourism to their already overcrowded tourist destination but it may lead to quite a lot less cruising, that may be exactly what they want but it is not easy for cruise ships to navigate these things.

 

[DisneyMomforLife]

I last cruised with Disney in 2012 so this will be a big adjustment for me as well. Used to love assigning colored highlighters to different family members!!

 

[gismo1554]

Well I get them to print new crew tip tickets every cruise. The printer sits right under the counter.

Yes I've heard of people having success but as said I was told there was no printable option available when I sailed the Wish in September and when I sailed the Magic last year. I think it honestly depends on who you speak to and if they have the sense to do this. I complete the disability form every trip and on that it clearly states "Large Print Navigators" so they have advance warning that I require additional help but I have never had any luck. I've emailed the disability support people before this trip in September specifically to talk about this and was told to ask at guest services. I queued the first day and was told nope so to be fair didn't try again as accepted that there was no chance which is probably on me too but its just frustrating when they ask you to complete the form and still don't get the help you ask for.

 

[Alicatt]

I was really hoping you could ask for them. My dad doesn't have a smart phone. I don't think they should be left in all the rooms as many people prefer phones and would just throw them out but for people who want or need them, I can't believe it isn't an option.

 

[Lilsia]

I don't mind using the app, when it works. IDK if everyone has this problem, but on my phone, when I go to view the daily activities, the top half of my screen is the picture of the ship that I can not minimize. So all I can see is a couple of lines of the schedule, which is extremely annoying. And then half way through my cruise, the app just stopped working. Guest services gave me 30 minutes of wifi to reinstall it but it didn't help. It kept shutting down and every single time I tried to get on the app, I would have to enter all of my information again, only to have it shut down after a couple of minutes. They said that there was nothing that they could do. So yeah, having a paper navigator would have been great. Plus I just had to remember my table number and dining rotation. If they can't get their app to be consistent, then they should have an alternative.

 

[Weedy]

I think a solution would be to print just the page with the entertainment grid.
That seems to be what most people really want and miss.
The early Navigators were printed in black and white on less expensive paper.
The entertainment grid could be printed on just on page (per night).
This will probably never happen but it’s an idea
Here’s a copy of a 2006 Navigator

 

[NAB]

Well when we were on the Wish I had no idea what the drink if the day was or if the spa had a deal on Which you always saw in the paper version. Didn’t even thought about it until Someone mentioned the Halloween drink costing more.

I think I missed a lot on the app.