Remember when Skyliner was announced....

[Robber Baron]

Yeah, I remember the predictions that the SkyLiner would be a line of Easy Bake ovens and our charred remains would be cleaned out after every ride.

 

[jec6613]

Yeah, I remember the predictions that the SkyLiner would be a line of Easy Bake ovens and our charred remains would be cleaned out after every ride.

I mean, I do sort of feel that way? At least in the summer. It's not a very comfortable ride in the heat, though most of the year it's quite comfortable. I'm a northerner though.

I think the bigger issues are really with availability and foul weather operations, it's a nifty mode of transport but not reliable compared to the watercraft or monorail, let alone busses. Given what they had to build around, small footprint, and low cost, it's a pretty slick system, and expecting it to compete with the other transit-grade solutions on property is a bit unreasonable.

The next thing that Disney really needs Transit-wise is a connection to MCO - building it down the I-4 from the CSX track just south of Amtrak's ORL with a spur via FL-528. Given the distance, terrain, and operational concerns, a 56.5" standard gauge line would seem ideal, especially if proposed corridors from DFW and Atlanta to Jacksonville get built, as it makes rail a good choice compared to flying for most of the population centers in the southeast US, especially with families with a lot of luggage. The problem, of course, is funding - it's about a $2-3Bn buildout for the ROW at 90 MPH track speeds (even more if you don't tie into CSX, as without it you need to build your own maintenance shops and such), and while you can pick up some Siemens equipment for the short-haul to and from the airport, for long haul direct to Wdw you need Viewliner, Superliner, or their replacement, which means you need NRPC involvement, and that means congress as well. De facto, Disney would have to foot the bill, and that seems pretty unlikely at the moment.

 

[CarolynFH]

The next thing that Disney really needs Transit-wise is a connection to MCO - building it down the I-4 from the CSX track just south of Amtrak's ORL with a spur via FL-528.

You mean like the Brightline expansion? There were many discussions here about it, and Disney had reportedly given land near Typhoon Lagoon for a station. The last I remember was that it was going along 528 and the station would be east of I-4, not on Disney property.

One of many discussions was https://www.disboards.com/threads/brightline-train-coming-to-mco-and-disney.3815933/

 

[dvczerfs]

I mean, I do sort of feel that way? At least in the summer. It's not a very comfortable ride in the heat, though most of the year it's quite comfortable. I'm a northerner though.

I think the bigger issues are really with availability and foul weather operations, it's a nifty mode of transport but not reliable compared to the watercraft or monorail, let alone busses. Given what they had to build around, small footprint, and low cost, it's a pretty slick system, and expecting it to compete with the other transit-grade solutions on property is a bit unreasonable.

The next thing that Disney really needs Transit-wise is a connection to MCO - building it down the I-4 from the CSX track just south of Amtrak's ORL with a spur via FL-528. Given the distance, terrain, and operational concerns, a 56.5" standard gauge line would seem ideal, especially if proposed corridors from DFW and Atlanta to Jacksonville get built, as it makes rail a good choice compared to flying for most of the population centers in the southeast US, especially with families with a lot of luggage. The problem, of course, is funding - it's about a $2-3Bn buildout for the ROW at 90 MPH track speeds (even more if you don't tie into CSX, as without it you need to build your own maintenance shops and such), and while you can pick up some Siemens equipment for the short-haul to and from the airport, for long haul direct to Wdw you need Viewliner, Superliner, or their replacement, which means you need NRPC involvement, and that means congress as well. De facto, Disney would have to foot the bill, and that seems pretty unlikely at the moment.

Watercraft lighting protocol is one mile less then the SL. If the SL is down , it’s a matter of minutes before watercraft go down in most cases. Busses are probably the worse form of transportation on property, sorry bus drivers. Buses, drivers all that maintenance and they operate under strict operating protocol. Monorail isn’t bad but way to time consuming loading, unloading and their distance requirements and speed regulations. They aren’t the most comfortable thing to ride in August either. Out of all four, SL moves more people than all of them, Now, is it perfect, no. Not everyone is thrilled with height, bouncing and swaying. Neither of all four are perfect and has their drawbacks when weather hits. Lightning usually comes and goes around here, we don’t have 24 hour lightning storms. People don’t like lines, they want it now and they want to sit down alone in the limo. lol. (Can’t blame them)
If I’m in a park and it’s gets to be 4pm, I don’t attempt to drive home, it will take me two hours. So I hang out in the park rather than in my car sitting in traffic. Same way with a lightning storm, you’re going to wait, bus,car,train,plane ,SL you name it.
Ok, so you have to go, you didn’t plan around the 3pm storm everyday and have to leave. You head to the SL it’s not running. Now you’re told to head to the buses. If I had a nickel for every time someone said, but I asked and they said it’s running. Two points, one, it’s Mother Nature, it could stop at anytime. Second, who did you ask? Did you ask guest services, even though they haven’t figured out how to control Mother Nature either, no, I asked the attraction cm.
I kid you not, I have been asked if the Mayo in Columbia Harbor House were in a pump or packets. They had packets out yesterday because they ran out of the pump stuff. Let me check my emails.lol.
T storms tend to pop up, they don’t always act like a big ol’ nor’easter. and you see it moving for days. A lot of times it hits the warning zone of (x) miles and disappears. When someone makes the call to shut it down, it happens all the time it gets half way through shutdown and it’s staying open.
Now, people want communication you should have told us through the AP. Ever have a Genie for Remy, you get there and it’s down, the problem with communicating through the AP is it’s not instant communication. Takes time, I can’t go into that system, even ride wait times, that info is not instant. So, you are in IG gift shop and you get a message to head to the buses, time lag to get that message to you. When do you send that message, nobody knows how long it’s going to be down, same as Test Track. It could five minutes, fifteen or fifty. So you get the message and you head to the buses, stop for a pretzel and a water, you didn’t eat all day. SL starts going back up when you hit Spaceship Earth. Now you head back and you can see where I’m going with this.
There is no easy answer to it. But the one thing the mouse does a lot of and does it well, collects information. From day one, they can move people. If you see the line at IG at park dump and think, I’ll be here all night. As long as you fold the stroller when instructed to, go in the cabin your told to in a timely manner, the line keeps moving. People ask, why does it keep slowing down? A few reasons, mostly someone is standing, dancing,playing where they are not supposed to.

 

[jec6613]

You mean like the Brightline expansion? There were many discussions here about it, and Disney had reportedly given land near Typhoon Lagoon for a station. The last I remember was that it was going along 528 and the station would be east of I-4, not on Disney property.

One of many discussions was https://www.disboards.com/threads/brightline-train-coming-to-mco-and-disney.3815933/

Actually, no. Brightline is very deliberately not connecting to many (almost any) outside of FL transit options besides MIA, which isn't a practical route into WDW for travelers outside of driving distance. This is because Brightline exists as a loss leader to increase property values for its holding company, Fortress Investment Group. If it doesn't increase the property values, it doesn't get built. Once you realize its goal is not to create a transit system, but to make developments that are rail-dependent and sell them for a pile of money, their strategy starts to make sense.

A transit connection to MCO would remove an enormous amount of vehicles from the roads just from that short trip - think of all the old DME busses that were filled, that could be replaced with rail. But it's a short distance transit connection, not short haul intercity.

A transit connection to ORL allows direct access to points outside of FL. Both the regional coaches into Georgia, but also an overnight city pair as far north as DC, with late afternoon departures and arrival in the morning, either direct to WDW or with a train change at ORL. (Note: the actual route wouldn't be WAS-WDW, for practical reasons the northern terminus would almost certainly be NYP). The demand actually already exists for these sorts of links, but the money doesn't.

 

[wabbott]

Good idea, but, from what I can see, there maybe a few problems. I’m guessing the reason for the IG station was to relieve the front of the park of the thousands of guest that take the SL
You would have to take out the turn station and build a station like Caribean Beach at that location. You would have a line coming in from Riv, a line running to IG and a line running to TTC. You can’t have a line that cabins just break off. It’s one sold line from station to station, once you enter a station you come off the line and the cabins are pushed around on a track. You can see how it works at the CB station pretty good. The Riv line to the new station would be fine. The line to IG would be fine but the line to TTC would have to have another station between the new station and TTC. It would be to long. Riv to IG is at max length. It has nothing to do with the operation of the system but safety. You have only so much time to clear, unload a line. The complete system now can be emptied in ten minutes. Not sure who’s regulations those are, federal,state, no clue.
The cabins also have to be spaced apart equally. You can’t have a gap, or a missing cabin on the line.
People see a cable and some cabins hanging, they don’t realize the infrastructure that goes with those lines. Multi million dollar stations with multi million dollar equipment, back up equipment, generators, maintenance, staff.
So now our idea is built and running, wanna talk about a cluster, stand at the Riv station during a rush hour for fifteen minutes. You and I and people who visit every year understand how it works but a lot of people have no idea. Next time you at the SL, just watch what goes on at the Riv. station. People have no clue where they are, do we stay on, do we get off, “ we get off here” (entire party gets off but grandma, she knows to stay on this isn’t Epcot )
The party stands on the platform, looks around and says, oh, grandmas right and they try to jump back on with the doors closing. The best is when they grab the cabin trying to stop it. Never met anyone strong enough yet. With all that, junior gets his foot caught between a moving cabin (1400 pounds empty) and the concrete platform. Could you imagine loading every third cabin going a different direction?
I’m not trying to be a wise guy, but next time you are at the Riv station, take fifteen minutes out of your day and stand there and watch what goes on. It’s no fault of the guest, they just don’t know how it works. You can hang all the signs you want, have all the recordings you want, that don’t work either.
Now picture the festivities after a full day of drinking around the world. lol.
You could always tell when it was Sunday, new batch of guest training day.
By the time you get them to stand behind the white line, fold the stroller and step all the way across the yellow line when exiting, they pack up and go home.
Oh, the person in yellow or blue standing there, is responsible for you and your families safety. Ever go through a NTSB interview, I sure haven’t or would want to. The SL is public transportation. That’s why you have to keep your shoes and shirt on. ( and other articles of clothing)
So, with that being said,…… Sorry, I got on a roll. Lol
Monorail, listen what goes on at the monorail, signs, announcements and only two big circles. Sitting on the Monorail at the grand and someone says, yes, this stops at Epcot, we just stay on. Unless you live in a major city, most people don’t know or how to use public transportation.

Problems? The entire WDW transportation operation is one giant "problem" and has been since 1971. "Problems" is what Imagineering types do on a daily basis ever since Walt Disney suggested to his designers that he wasn't fond of the word "can't."

Unsolved opportunities is a better descriptor.

As far as the issues you describe happening at the Riviera, I've been to WDW many times since the Skyliner opened and ridden the it dozens of times. I have never seen happen what you describe. The Skyliner load/unload process is by far the most efficient of any on the property.

Inefficient is consuming 10 minutes loading/unloading two ECV scooters onto a bus for people who've never driven them before, while hundreds of passengers are stuck in queue, and two more busses wait to pull into the loading zone.

Money? I'm not privy to the internal operational costs, but I would suggest that payroll cost savings for bus drivers would add up to a lot of money.

Further, parks make 3x the profit on every dollar of revenue than does the entertainment division of the company. It is long past time that some of that money be put back into the parks for improvements and operational maintenance.

The parks have kept Hollywood propped up for long enough.

 

[dvczerfs]

Problems? The entire WDW transportation operation is one giant "problem" and has been since 1971. "Problems" is what Imagineering types do on a daily basis ever since Walt Disney suggested to his designers that he wasn't fond of the word "can't."

Unsolved opportunities is a better descriptor.

As far as the issues you describe happening at the Riviera, I've been to WDW many times since the Skyliner opened and ridden the it dozens of times. I have never seen happen what you describe. The Skyliner load/unload process is by far the most efficient of any on the property.

Inefficient is consuming 10 minutes loading/unloading two ECV scooters onto a bus for people who've never driven them before, while hundreds of passengers are stuck in queue, and two more busses wait to pull into the loading zone.

Money? I'm not privy to the internal operational costs, but I would suggest that payroll cost savings for bus drivers would add up to a lot of money.

Further, parks make 3x the profit on every dollar of revenue than does the entertainment division of the company. It is long past time that some of that money be put back into the parks for improvements and operational maintenance.

The parks have kept Hollywood propped up for long enough.

Well, from “inefficiency is consuming “ all the way to the end, I couldn’t agree with you more. Why buses are not the answer.
You kind of use a point I was making at the Riv. and used it for the entire system. Again, I agree it is the most efficient of any transportation on property. By numbers, it is.
Most tourist, visitors don’t realize what is happening around them which I didn’t either. I visited the park since 1973 at least twice a year and I never realized it either. Never realized what it takes to run an operation that large. What has to happen and how many people it takes to make the smallest aspect happen. Which has been a philosophy since 1924, don’t let them see behind the curtain.
Find me another place that moves that many people, in that amount of time across the amount of area Disney does.
Now for the Riv. station. I’ve spent some time there, probably a good six months and I’ve hung off those cable well over a thousand times.
Like I said, no fault of the guest, not the people who ride it every year on their yearly vacation, the majority of the guest that never rode or have any idea how it works, where to and how to get on and off. There are signs and recordings but it’s confusing. I made this comment earlier on describing putting in another fly through station between TTC and a new station that would have to be built where the present turn station sits. Fly through stations, do I get out do I stay on are confusing.
Next time you fly into the Riv station, the doors open and someone is going to ask or tell you where you are or where are you heading. Again, people jump out thinking they are in Epcot, or at the CB station because they are heading to Art and didn’t realize where they are.People are thinking of their day, what they are going to do or eat and that’s great, they aren’t paying attention to the person trying to communicate where they are and where are they heading too.It happens at every station. “No, I’m just gonna stay on” sorry but you have to exit the cabin. The line will shut down if you stay on. The doors don’t close while going into the load side and you are exposed to an open concrete pit with 1400 pound cabins moving and close together.
I could write a book.
There are load lines and unload lines. Unlike the monorail which is stopped, the SL is moving. On the load side, you have to be seated before you hit the load line. If not, it stops. When the doors open and someone is sitting bleeding in the cabin, usually small children, you know they were not sitting when the last E stopped happened and hit their face on a seat. Please remain seated is communicated by the cm, signs and speils.
Unload, you have to step fully across the second yellow line when exiting the cabin, if not the line stops. All for safety. Back pack gets stuck on the cabin and drags you, yes, I don’t care how big you are or strong you are, you won’t stop it or slow it down.
The gentleman who is hanging out of the cabin to yell to a friend to “come on, hurry up” while the doors are closing.
One last story, Mom and Dad standing at the white line waiting for the next cabin, they are instructed to a cabin, mom and dad have their nose buried in their phone. The three year old walks over and instead of stepping into a cabin, steps between two cabins, falls into a three and a half foot concrete pit. Cabins are not made of nerf. In one swoop, dad reaches down, grabs him by the collar and pushes him into the cabin. I don’t care who you are, how tuff you think you are, that will effect you for the rest of your shift.
Riv. you have that going on plus. There are many options and not familiar or just didn’t realize where you are which I’ve done plenty of times myself. People stay on and at the last second decide to get off and jump out of the cabin while the doors are closing. Trust me my friend, it happens all the time.

 

[MinnieMSue]

Well, from “inefficiency is consuming “ all the way to the end, I couldn’t agree with you more. Why buses are not the answer.
You kind of use a point I was making at the Riv. and used it for the entire system. Again, I agree it is the most efficient of any transportation on property. By numbers, it is.
Most tourist, visitors don’t realize what is happening around them which I didn’t either. I visited the park since 1973 at least twice a year and I never realized it either. Never realized what it takes to run an operation that large. What has to happen and how many people it takes to make the smallest aspect happen. Which has been a philosophy since 1924, don’t let them see behind the curtain.
Find me another place that moves that many people, in that amount of time across the amount of area Disney does.
Now for the Riv. station. I’ve spent some time there, probably a good six months and I’ve hung off those cable well over a thousand times.
Like I said, no fault of the guest, not the people who ride it every year on their yearly vacation, the majority of the guest that never rode or have any idea how it works, where to and how to get on and off. There are signs and recordings but it’s confusing. I made this comment earlier on describing putting in another fly through station between TTC and a new station that would have to be built where the present turn station sits. Fly through stations, do I get out do I stay on are confusing.
Next time you fly into the Riv station, the doors open and someone is going to ask or tell you where you are or where are you heading. Again, people jump out thinking they are in Epcot, or at the CB station because they are heading to Art and didn’t realize where they are.People are thinking of their day, what they are going to do or eat and that’s great, they aren’t paying attention to the person trying to communicate where they are and where are they heading too.It happens at every station. “No, I’m just gonna stay on” sorry but you have to exit the cabin. The line will shut down if you stay on. The doors don’t close while going into the load side and you are exposed to an open concrete pit with 1400 pound cabins moving and close together.
I could write a book.
There are load lines and unload lines. Unlike the monorail which is stopped, the SL is moving. On the load side, you have to be seated before you hit the load line. If not, it stops. When the doors open and someone is sitting bleeding in the cabin, usually small children, you know they were not sitting when the last E stopped happened and hit their face on a seat. Please remain seated is communicated by the cm, signs and speils.
Unload, you have to step fully across the second yellow line when exiting the cabin, if not the line stops. All for safety. Back pack gets stuck on the cabin and drags you, yes, I don’t care how big you are or strong you are, you won’t stop it or slow it down.
The gentleman who is hanging out of the cabin to yell to a friend to “come on, hurry up” while the doors are closing.
One last story, Mom and Dad standing at the white line waiting for the next cabin, they are instructed to a cabin, mom and dad have their nose buried in their phone. The three year old walks over and instead of stepping into a cabin, steps between two cabins, falls into a three and a half foot concrete pit. Cabins are not made of nerf. In one swoop, dad reaches down, grabs him by the collar and pushes him into the cabin. I don’t care who you are, how tuff you think you are, that will effect you for the rest of your shift.
Riv. you have that going on plus. There are many options and not familiar or just didn’t realize where you are which I’ve done plenty of times myself. People stay on and at the last second decide to get off and jump out of the cabin while the doors are closing. Trust me my friend, it happens all the time.

Yikes! Working at skyliner is not for the weak and is way more complicated than it looks! I never think about guests not listening or doing those things. So scary.

 

[dvczerfs]

Yikes! Working at skyliner is not for the weak and is way more complicated than it looks! I never think about guests not listening or doing those things. So scary.

It’s not only SL, transportation,attractions anything that is safety critical. I never realized the amount of training that goes into all the roles on property.
I still remember on the boards when the cm contract was being negotiated. I’m not saying this to start a debate, war or a fight, but there was a comment made, it was even made by a travel agent, she posted, and I quote, “ you just operate a ride”. I wanted to reply but didn’t think it would be appropriate. First, that person who just operates a ride is responsible for you and your family’s safety. These attractions are made of steel and operated by non forgiving motors,hydraulics and if not respected, you can get seriously injured.
I see it all the time, as a guest, I had no idea. One day I was on Buzz in studios, we got next to the unload ramp and we stopped suddenly. I was looking at the cars in front of us unloading and a small child started running back to the car. The cars just started to move. The operator hit the E Stop right before the little girl tried to get back in a moving car. Mom said, oh come on Sally but the operator was visibly stunned. We can use our imagination what would have happened if the cm was thinking about his date last night and not his job.
When I got off the ride, he was standing by the control panel, not working, probably pulled to get his thoughts together. I said Excellent work brother. He smiled, he said with a smile, I’m still shaking but I’ll be fine.
99.99 percent of the people there had no idea what he did.
You have to be on your toes, always, always, you never know what is going to happen next or from who. Little kids are fast, real fast. Even in a stroller or holding mom’s hand, they can move in a split second. They have an excuse, they don’t know any better. I’ll leave it at that. Lol

 

[MinnieMSue]

It’s not only SL, transportation,attractions anything that is safety critical. I never realized the amount of training that goes into all the roles on property.
I still remember on the boards when the cm contract was being negotiated. I’m not saying this to start a debate, war or a fight, but there was a comment made, it was even made by a travel agent, she posted, and I quote, “ you just operate a ride”. I wanted to reply but didn’t think it would be appropriate. First, that person who just operates a ride is responsible for you and your family’s safety. These attractions are made of steel and operated by non forgiving motors,hydraulics and if not respected, you can get seriously injured.
I see it all the time, as a guest, I had no idea. One day I was on Buzz in studios, we got next to the unload ramp and we stopped suddenly. I was looking at the cars in front of us unloading and a small child started running back to the car. The cars just started to move. The operator hit the E Stop right before the little girl tried to get back in a moving car. Mom said, oh come on Sally but the operator was visibly stunned. We can use our imagination what would have happened if the cm was thinking about his date last night and not his job.
When I got off the ride, he was standing by the control panel, not working, probably pulled to get his thoughts together. I said Excellent work brother. He smiled, he said with a smile, I’m still shaking but I’ll be fine.
99.99 percent of the people there had no idea what he did.
You have to be on your toes, always, always, you never know what is going to happen next or from who. Little kids are fast, real fast. Even in a stroller or holding mom’s hand, they can move in a split second. They have an excuse, they don’t know any better. I’ll leave it at that. Lol

Years ago we went to kings island and my daughter was on the kiddie swings ride (lifts you up and goes in a circle while you sit in a seat with a chain that you clip to a bar over your legs. ). Anyway a little boy (about age 5) jumped out while it was running and I about had a heart attack I yelled come to me! And thank god he immediately did. He could have gotten hit in head by other riders legs. I held onto his shoulders with him against the fence until the ride sequence was over. The operator never even noticed the kid did his own evac while the ride was running. Idk where his parents were cause no one came over to me while I was holding on to him. I fully agree ride operators have to be on their toes constantly. It is especially important as society seems to be slipping into “ will do whatever I want and rules aren’t for me “mode nowadays.

 

[Mikey15]

Actually, no. Brightline is very deliberately not connecting to many (almost any) outside of FL transit options besides MIA, which isn't a practical route into WDW for travelers outside of driving distance. This is because Brightline exists as a loss leader to increase property values for its holding company, Fortress Investment Group. If it doesn't increase the property values, it doesn't get built. Once you realize its goal is not to create a transit system, but to make developments that are rail-dependent and sell them for a pile of money, their strategy starts to make sense.

A transit connection to MCO would remove an enormous amount of vehicles from the roads just from that short trip - think of all the old DME busses that were filled, that could be replaced with rail. But it's a short distance transit connection, not short haul intercity.

A transit connection to ORL allows direct access to points outside of FL. Both the regional coaches into Georgia, but also an overnight city pair as far north as DC, with late afternoon departures and arrival in the morning, either direct to WDW or with a train change at ORL. (Note: the actual route wouldn't be WAS-WDW, for practical reasons the northern terminus would almost certainly be NYP). The demand actually already exists for these sorts of links, but the money doesn't.

It’s always changing, but as things stand part of Brightline going west from MCO to OCCC and Tampa is that there will be a transfer platform from the north/south SunRail line. SunRail riders will be able to transfer to MCO, or OCCC/I-Drive. People who fly into MCO will be able to take a train to the convention center and be shuttle distance from I-Drive hotels (including, presumably, UO’s Epic Universe hotels).

So even if it’s not necessarily Brightline trains providing transit service, the Brightline project is potentially going to make a rail transit link from the airport possible. TBD if there will be a stop near I-4 & Hotel Plaza Blvd or not.

 

[jec6613]

Busses are probably the worse form of transportation on property, sorry bus drivers. Buses, drivers all that maintenance and they operate under strict operating protocol. Monorail isn’t bad but way to time consuming loading, unloading and their distance requirements and speed regulations.

Busses are much more flexible, but have the highest operating costs per passenger by a fair margin; but as their up front capital costs are lower, for a public company reporting quarterly they're often more attractive to the balance sheet. Given the sprawling nature of the property, number of stops, and the irregular nature of traffic, I don't think busses can go away entirely. As an example, per year of service, the purchase cost for a bus is higher that that for a new Monorail train, with higher operational costs per vehicle.

The Monorail's problem is, as I mentioned earlier, ROW related, not the rolling stock itself. It's not just the maintenance, it's also that the block system is set up to prevent them from drawing too much current and overloading the electrical system. The older, shorter, Mk IV could actually run at a higher frequency, so the longer trains of the Mk VI didn't add as much capacity as would otherwise be indicated. They also only have 800 HP available to them, and don't return dynamic braking energy back to the beamway, instead using resistor banks, making the problem still worse. Back of the envelope math says that the monorail should be able to about double passenger capacity on the existing beamway and stations with signaling, electrical, and rolling stock improvements. Unfortunately, this level of improvement would mean taking the monorail out of service, something Disney could have used COVID to do but chose not to. Not taking advantage of the once in a lifetime shutdown to make capital improvements is probably the worst decision Disney has made in decades.

The solution, of course, is the same one as solves most everything: funding. Though after Potter and Fowler levels of management would also help.

 

[dvczerfs]

Busses are much more flexible, but have the highest operating costs per passenger by a fair margin; but as their up front capital costs are lower, for a public company reporting quarterly they're often more attractive to the balance sheet. Given the sprawling nature of the property, number of stops, and the irregular nature of traffic, I don't think busses can go away entirely. As an example, per year of service, the purchase cost for a bus is higher that that for a new Monorail train, with higher operational costs per vehicle.

The Monorail's problem is, as I mentioned earlier, ROW related, not the rolling stock itself. It's not just the maintenance, it's also that the block system is set up to prevent them from drawing too much current and overloading the electrical system. The older, shorter, Mk IV could actually run at a higher frequency, so the longer trains of the Mk VI didn't add as much capacity as would otherwise be indicated. They also only have 800 HP available to them, and don't return dynamic braking energy back to the beamway, instead using resistor banks, making the problem still worse. Back of the envelope math says that the monorail should be able to about double passenger capacity on the existing beamway and stations with signaling, electrical, and rolling stock improvements. Unfortunately, this level of improvement would mean taking the monorail out of service, something Disney could have used COVID to do but chose not to. Not taking advantage of the once in a lifetime shutdown to make capital improvements is probably the worst decision Disney has made in decades.

The solution, of course, is the same one as solves most everything: funding. Though after Potter and Fowler levels of management would also help.

Couldn’t agree with you more. Bus’s will never go away. They have to have multiple forms of transportation, I’m just saying some are more efficient, effective than others.
The big ole electric train is second in dollar amount per person being moved per hour. It’s to slow, loading and unloading process, which is the heel of most transportation, speed of trains and distance apart. Sure, you can throw all kinds of money at it but the cost per demand isn’t worth it. There are better, cost effective way to move people. Now I didn’t say get rid of the monorail, but if it was cost effective and save a nickel, it would have been done. There would be bus’s taking guest from the Poly and the grand to the turnstiles tomorrow, jack the room rates ten percent and the resorts will still be packed. It’s all analytics today. Everywhere, every business. We do the same in our own homes. It would be nice and more convenient if we left all the lights on all day and all the faucets running but it’s not cost effective. Obviously you have a passion for trains, so do I, my Dad worked for the railroad for years back in the 50sand 60s.
The main problem with everything, we live in a now society, people can’t wait. They don’t want any lines, they want it now! I don’t want to wait for a pretzel and a soda. We also live in a country where we all drive our own car everywhere, all the time. We don’t have public transportation. People don’t know what to do.
As for Covid, not to many people were working during Covid. Remember, they shut everything down. The only people working, other than from home were critical people, even in Florida. In most cases it was even illegal. As soon as someone would have sneezed, it would be the headline of every news feed on the internet. Evil Disney making people work, so Covid wasnt an option to do anything.
Potter and Fowler lived in a different time in history. Unfortunately. It was the wild wild west back then, it was a free for all. You could dredge, move natural water flow and yes, I’m going to say it, relocate wild life. If the same regulations were in place as they are fifty years later, it would still be a forty square mile swamp.
Did you ever see the video of the castle being built, a construction worker sat on the ball of the crane line and went for the ride with the last spire to be put on the castle? Could you imagine doing that in 2024? There would be prison sentences.
What is real entertaining is the Magical Express saga. If you go back to pre Covid on these boards, people , it takes to long to get to your resort, they pick you up to early, we just Uber, it’s so much easier. The demand dropped past the point of it being cost effective. Nowwwww all of a sudden, it was like taking candy from a baby. Everything is analyzed, how can we make it better and more cost effective. Having limo service for each party to all the parks would be better, it’s not cost effective.
Putting (x) amount of money into a monorail for (x) amount of people won’t increase how many people will ride it. There are only (x) amount of people using it. It would only help on high volume days. Waiting an extra ten minutes isn’t worth the cost. Again, if it was, the monorail would be all over property.