Restaurant Tipping

[gacsmom]

This is really my last reply, otherwise I would just be repeating myself, but to suggest that I should not go out for a nice meal or night is completely ridiculous, I go out, pay for my food, pay for my babysitter, etc. I should not have to pay someone who has a job and is paid by someone else.
Simple as that.
But like I said,, places I frequent will get a tip because I don't want sneeze muffins, but that is almost like bribery which should be illegal. Tip me or I will spit in your salad, what other occupation could get away with strong arming their customers that way??? Terrible.

 

[larina]

...if you don't agree with tipping, eat from the drive through...This service should be accounted for in your budget.

Tipping IS a part of sit down dining, it just is, whether you agree or not. If you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to eat in a sit down establishment.

...I am not welfare and my extra money should not go towards supporting you...tipping is like charity...I can't even believe this is a disagreement other than from people who have come to depend on other's handouts...

Welfare? But they are working! How is tipping at all like welfare or charity? By the way, I've never worked for tips, so my argument isn't because I "depend on other's handouts."

 

[gacsmom]

Tipping IS a part of sit down dining, it just is, whether you agree or not. If you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to eat in a sit down establishment.


Welfare? But they are working! How is tipping at all like welfare or charity? By the way, I've never worked for tips, so my argument isn't because I "depend on other's handouts."

I said I would say no more, but don't take only part of what I said and put it together that way. If you want to quote me, take the whole quote.

And if I can afford my $100 meal, then I can affort it. Doesn't mean I have to pay extra as well. Just because some think it is part of a meal doesn't make it so. Who's to say you're right and I'm not. Maybe I'm right and you aren't. People are entitled to their opinion, contrary to what some on this forum believe.

Done, just don't quote me wrong.

 

[Malcon10t]

Tipping IS a part of sit down dining, it just is, whether you agree or not. If you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to eat in a sit down establishment.

Tipping is customary in the US. When you travel to other countries, you follow their customs. Same here. I know in England (where tipping began) they include tax and tip in the price listed on the menu. Here, we don't. So, to the OP, remember there will also be about 8% tax also (when you are checking prices...)

 

[larina]

I said I would say no more, but don't take only part of what I said and put it together that way. If you want to quote me, take the whole quote.

And if I can afford my $100 meal, then I can affort it. Doesn't mean I have to pay extra as well. Just because some think it is part of a meal doesn't make it so. Who's to say you're right and I'm not. Maybe I'm right and you aren't. People are entitled to their opinion, contrary to what some on this forum believe.

Done, just don't quote me wrong.

I didn't mean to (and don't see where I actually did) change your wording in any way. I was only responding to certain sentences/statements, so I quoted them, with appropriate punctuation to make clear what I was doing. Your whole post is still visible on this thread. It is to save board space, nothing more. I'm sorry if it came across some other way to you.

Tipping is customary in the US. When you travel to other countries, you follow their customs...

Much better worded. "Customary" says it so much better.

 

[Malcon10t]

If you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to eat in a sit down establishment.

It's similar to going to Disneyland. You may be able to afford the hotel and tickets, but if you can't afford the gas/food/parking, it doesn't mean you really can afford it. They are part of the trip cost also.

The food may cost you $50, but you also need to be able to pay the $4 tax and the $8 tip. So you need to figure out if you can afford the $62 for the meal.

 

[dnamertz]

It isn't the same. Driving through takes minutes. When you sit at a table with your family and choose not to tip and it takes half an hour or more, you are filling the spot and causing the waiter to work tip free , taking up space that a tipping family could have. Drive through doesn't wait on your every whim. its almost instant food, in and out , in a bag and your gone.

You spend more time there because you eat there, and you wait for your order to be taken and then wait longer for your food to be cooked, and the consuption time of the meal is usually longer. Yes, the server spends more time with you, but they may have you and a few other tables during an hour. The fast food server waits on many more customers during that hour. Both are working hard constantly serving during an hour, and if both make minimum wage, why not tip them both.

And this is the same argument from every non tipper. It isnt a hand out. It is well earned $$. And of course, the second argument from the non tipper is "get a better job or go to school and get a better job".

I don't agree with the "get a better job" argument, but the pro-tippers have an equally bad argument and that is "if you can't afford to tip, don't go to a sit down restaurant". People are free to work and eat where they want. I'm not saying people should just stop tipping. I believe (like Miss Manners) that the menu prices should be 15% higher and then the server should be paid 15% more by the boss. As someone else said "they should be paid by the boss, not by the customer". I'm not sure why that comment was so shocking to you...its how almost every other profession is paid.

The food may cost you $50, but you also need to be able to pay the $4 tax and the $8 tip.

Actually, you are required to pay the $50 and the $4, but the $8 is optional. If you are going to make something optional, then don't be surprised when not everyone takes part.

 

[Malcon10t]

believe (like Miss Manners) that the menu prices should be 15% higher and then the server should be paid 15% more by the boss.

The ones who DON"T want this are the restaurant owners, because then the prices are higher. They would rather keep the prices lower and let the servers eat the loss if they aren't tipped. I would prefer they increase the costs 15% and give the server the 15%. Then servers would be recommending the highest priced items when asked for recommendations. But restaurants prefer their prices look lower.

 

[skiingfast]

The ones who DON"T want this are the restaurant owners, because then the prices are higher. They would rather keep the prices lower and let the servers eat the loss if they aren't tipped. I would prefer they increase the costs 15% and give the server the 15%. Then servers would be recommending the highest priced items when asked for recommendations. But restaurants prefer their prices look lower.

Automatic tips are service charges. A service charge is automatic in France among other countries. Want to see terrible service go to France. The waiter is getting that extra money autmatically and does not care about serving you.

 

[rowan1813]

Tipping is customary in the US. When you travel to other countries, you follow their customs. Same here.

I think Malcon10t and ArchOwl said it right; tipping is customary here in the US, and when traveling to countries, you follow their customs, regardless of what your own may be. You may not like it, but good etiquette says that you should follow the customs of the country. I had a similar experience when I traveled to Egypt for a study abroad expedition. Although we had already purchased tickets to the various sites we were going through (pyramids, temples, etc.) it was still customary to hand the gentlemen who opened up the sites for us a few pounds. I didn't necessarily agree with it (as we had already purchased tickets), but it was customary in Egypt to do that and so we followed that custom. I later found out that most of those men make very little from the govt and those pounds they got from the tourists were a way to support their family and keep them in food. Obviously that is not the case here in the US, but it was still the custom and we followed it. Definitely didn't want to give the American tourist persona a bad image.

So I will be the first to say that stereotypes about who tips and who doesn't tip has led my DH to almost always tip 20% to make up for the Asians who don't tip well. Even if it's terrible service, he'll give at least 15% because he feels we have to prove that not all Asians are bad tippers. We're both Asian American, born and raised here, but I know Asian immigrants from other countries aren't used to tipping well or can be perceived to be low tippers. It may be changing now that more Asian immigrants with deep pockets are visiting the US, but we certainly feel sensitive to being judged based on appearances.

I have to admit but I had never heard about this stereotype of Asians being bad tippers until I went to college and understood the reason for it. My BFF from college was born and raised in Taiwan and came over at an older age with her family for better schooling opportunities. Her and her family never really ate out very much when they first came over or when they did, frequented Taiwanese establishments that were run by people who were "fresh of the boat" (her words, not mine. ) so tipping was not a huge deal for her. It wasn't until we became friends and ate out once a week (tired of dorm food and our own cooking ) that the subject of tipping came up and I had to explain to her the custom in the US and what was customarily expected. I never realized that most Asians who were either just visiting or were recently transplanted never knew to tip because it was always included in the price of the meal in Taiwan. Learn something new everyday! I am glad to know this now as my next overseas trip will be to Taiwan and Cambodia and I know what the local customs are.

That being said, I customarily tip 15%-18% at table service restaurants. Etiquette used to suggest 15% (my dad has a little card that gives the tip amounts per dollar amount that he acquired back before I was born) but now with the cost of living going up (and inflation) I believe the new suggested percentage is 18%. Just be aware of this when you travel to the States, and you shouldn't have a problem.

 

[Rebekkap]

Automatic tips are service charges. A service charge is automatic in France among other countries. Want to see terrible service go to France. The waiter is getting that extra money autmatically and does not care about serving you.

Really? I've been to France a couple of times in the last couple of years, and never had anything but charming service.

 

[Malcon10t]

Really? I've been to France a couple of times in the last couple of years, and never had anything but charming service.

While I have never been there, my daughter did spend a week there, and she agrees with you.

 

[dnamertz]

Automatic tips are service charges. A service charge is automatic in France among other countries. Want to see terrible service go to France. The waiter is getting that extra money autmatically and does not care about serving you.

That should not be the case. Does that mean that service people in professions that don't get tips never provide good service because there is no extra incentive for them?

There would still be extra incentive for them to do a good job (just like every other profession) because those doing a good job would get paid more by their boss then those not doing a good job.

You would also more likely see the really bad servers get fired if their bad service was brought to a mangers attention more often. But, since leaving a bad tip, or no tip, is the way we usually show our dislike for the service (instead of talking to the manager) the manager is less likely to know who the bad servers are...unless they have some way of seeing how much their tips are. The earlier post by someone who received terrible service said they left a 5% tip. That server probably thinks they were cheap tippers, or if the server is that bad, he/she probably doesn't care enough to work harder at providing good service and because the low tip was the signal to show how bad the service was, the manager may never know.

 

[KSDisneyDad]

It's "nice" to see that one of the most hotly debated topics on the Cruise boards made it over here too.

Fortunately, on the cruises, Disney started charging your room automatically for the tips. If you want to remove them, you have to go to Guest Services and do so in persn. Many guests were not tipping which is why this happened.

Even with the changes to the tipping practices, we had excellent service from our serving staff throughout the week on our recent cruise. I am shocked by the attitude of some on here about why they shouldn't have to tip. I think it is these same people who used to skip the last meal on the ship to avoid paying a tip. I'm sure some still go to Guest Services to remove their tips now. Fortunately, I think Disney's new policy on the cruise ships lowers the number of non-tippers.

My point is that if enough people begin to do this at the parks as well (don't tip), then we'll see the implementation of mandatory tips to the sit-down meals just like on the cruise ships. Yes, there is the fear that automatic tips lower service quality and that could happen. Personally, I hope this never happens. It does look like it's just a couple posters in the vocal minority trying to stir the pot on this thread so it's probably a non-issue. Even those who oppose to the whole principle of tipping seem to say they still tip, albiet reluctantly.

 

[dnamertz]

It does look like it's just a couple posters in the vocal minority trying to stir the pot on this thread so it's probably a non-issue. Even those who oppose to the whole principle of tipping seem to say they still tip, albiet reluctantly.

Interesting how if someone has an opposing viewpoint to yours (even if they are in the minority) they are only trying to "stir the pot". I am one of those people who tips, although not "reluctantly", but because it is the "custom" of how things are done here...but does that mean it is the way the system should be set up? No.

You can disagree with the tax structure, but still pay your taxes and voice your opinion about how the structure would work better if it were different.

 

[mystic_path]

I cant even imagine how much money servers are making each day at the parks. For each party or person being forced to pay like 18% for their meals in a DL restaurant where there is constant foot traffic... Those servers have nothing to complain about. I'm so jealous LOL! I wish my retail job paid me 18% on top of my wages for each person I serve. I would be laughing.

 

[KSDisneyDad]

Interesting how if someone has an opposing viewpoint to yours (even if they are in the minority) they are only trying to "stir the pot". I am one of those people who tips, although not "reluctantly", but because it is the "custom" of how things are done here...but does that mean it is the way the system should be set up? No.

You can disagree with the tax structure, but still pay your taxes and voice your opinion about how the structure would work better if it were different.

Touche...

That said, using words such as "welfare" and "get a better job" can only be described as stirring the pot IMO. There are less extreme ways to express your dislike of the tipping system. When such hyperbole is used, it defeats the whole purpose of a civil debate on the issue.

 

[KSDisneyDad]

I cant even imagine how much money servers are making each day at the parks. For each party or person being forced to pay like 18% for their meals in a DL restaurant where there is constant foot traffic... Those servers have nothing to complain about. I'm so jealous LOL! I wish my retail job paid me 18% on top of my wages for each person I serve. I would be laughing.

So, why not change careers? Sorry, couldn't resist after some of the previous comments.

 

[mystic_path]

So, why not change careers? Sorry, couldn't resist after some of the previous comments.

HAHA! It's all good. Actually I am right in the middle of starting a new job next week! No more retail for me! I just think tipping should be a choice for good service, not forced. But good for those workers! Lucky bums!

 

[KSDisneyDad]

HAHA! It's all good. Actually I am right in the middle of starting a new job next week! No more retail for me! I just think tipping should be a choice for good service, not forced. But good for those workers! Lucky bums!

Good luck with your new job.

As a PP said, tipping is a custom and it's probably here to stay. If you think that you can make more money with a tipped position, why not try it.

I'm not sure those who depend on tips are "lucky". I know I couldn't do it. Just like some work for commissions and can make a lot of money - much more than me. But I think I'd starve if I depended on commissions.