Was recent large RIV declaration done for remaining RIV to go into trust?

[WDWFERN]

So, just thinking more about the trust, now that it is clear it is happening. It made me wonder if the recent, relatively large declaration at RIV, which left only 25%of the resort left undeclared, was done to simplify sales now that the trust is being created. Technically, if that is the last declaration for deeded units, DVD could allocate the last 25% of rooms into the trust, CFW is part of the trust, and the new PV tower could be part of the same existing PVB association, but declared into and sold as part of the trust. Possible of some remaining AUL could also be put into trust.

Anyhow, this would make it so that at WDW, there is only trust points with restrictions being sold, simplifying things for sales guides. The wouldn’t have questions or have potential buyers waiver about which is better to purchase deeded points or trust use plan points. There would only be the one model at WDW, and it would have a pretty significant variety of desired resorts.

Would love to hear people’s thoughts!

 

[Genie+]

I’m wondering about a combo too. CFW, RIV, Poly2, AUL and maybe even VDH.

Just don’t know yet. If they did offer multiple resorts in the trust, I think regular DVC might still be for sale.

 

[SpicyMcHaggis]

I’m wondering about a combo too. CFW, RIV, Poly2, AUL and maybe even VDH.

Just don’t know yet. If they did offer multiple resorts in the trust, I think regular DVC might still be for sale.

I hadn’t thought about VDH - looking at that now, having the situation with taxes being handled separately might have been done with something like this in mind - to not burden the rest of the trust with those higher taxes.

 

[Jwaire]

If the trust ends up being a product and not just a way to handle CFW, I expect they will continue to offer both options for a long while.

If anything, just for add-ons to existing members who own at the OG resorts.

I'm not sure potential PVB tower buyers want access to CFW or RIV at 11 months, it seems to me you purchase the tower to stay at the tower. It's not a drop product like SSR. It's a flagship resort.

They're walking on thin ice with this. You start siphoning off 25% here (RIV), 50% here (PVB Tower), etc of current resorts—you're going to cause a massive uproar with owners that bought in because they expected the resort to be fully declared once it sells out like every other DVC property.

It's one thing to start a resort with a trust, it's another to try to force a hybrid after years of selling—legal or not. They care about their current members, primarily because they tend to come back and add-on.

 

[crvetter]

I think everyone is thinking about this wrong. They won’t be declared into the trust. They will still be declared into each resort same as now. Just that the trust will “buy” points at resorts. They will then sell ownership to the trust to individuals (just kind of like people putting membership into their Living Trusts or LLCs). It’s basically just one large owner that owns a bunch of points, really functionally I think it will work the same at 7 months for everyone as it does now. Just buyers of the trust will get shafted thinking they can book 11 months out at VDH only to realize that other owners of the trust exhausted the VDH points.

I don’t think they are creating a new timeshare system, just a different way for people to participate in the current system.

 

[Sandisw]

I think everyone is thinking about this wrong. They won’t be declared into the trust. They will still be declared into each resort same as now. Just that the trust will “buy” points at resorts. They will then sell ownership to the trust to individuals (just kind of like people putting membership into their Living Trusts or LLCs). It’s basically just one large owner that owns a bunch of points, really functionally I think it will work the same at 7 months for everyone as it does now. Just buyers of the trust will get shafted thinking they can book 11 months out at VDH only to realize that other owners of the trust exhausted the VDH points.

I don’t think they are creating a new timeshare system, just a different way for people to participate in the current system.

Well, the way the the land trust was set up, it does not appear to me that the trust has the authority to buy anything. It is not the same kind of trust that you or I can set up.

It requested DVD to add the property to the trust and then activate it for sale.

The powers of the trust board are spelled out, it defines who owners can be, and how it all works.

So, I am not one who is on the side that the trust is just going to be this large point owner that exists in the current associations.

I do think with answer the question, I dont know if they will add RIV units with only 25%.

But I can see others moving forward, including the tower units at Poly. I think those will either be sold as part of the trust or part of PVB as leasehold. Don’t see it mixing any longer…but I could be wrong.

 

[crvetter]

Well, the way the the land trust was set up, it does not appear to me that the trust has the authority to buy anything. It is not the same kind of trust that you or I can set up.

It requested DVD to add the property to the trust and then activate it for sale.

The powers of the trust board are spelled out, it defines who owners can be, and how it all works.

So, I am not one who is on the side that the trust is just going to be this large point owner that exists in the current associations.

I do think with answer the question, I dont know if they will add RIV units with only 25%.

But I can see others moving forward, including the tower units at Poly. I think those will either be sold as part of the trust or part of PVB as leasehold. Don’t see it mixing any longer…but I could be wrong.

That’s why I put “buy” in quotes. I still think functionally it will still be the same. Just they own the trust which is a pool of points.

So is your point that current owners won’t be allowed to book resorts/rooms in the trust? That would then mean the trust owners at 7 months can book other resorts. As a user/owner of the non-trust I really honestly expect very little difference in your experience.

Edit: I just thought more. This might just be completely a ploy for them to avoid on how and when a resort ends, a lot easier than deeded interest. Given that the cabins have resale restriction language the use of the points can’t really be significantly different than today, so they clearly are planning on home resort priority to an extent. If they aren’t then resale at the Cabins will be very very bad, because other trust owners (not just Cabin Owner) would block you.

 

[Sandisw]

That’s why I put “buy” in quotes. I still think functionally it will still be the same. Just they own the trust which is a pool of points.

So is your point that current owners won’t be allowed to book resorts/rooms in the trust? That would then mean the trust owners at 7 months can book other resorts. As a user/owner of the non-trust I really honestly expect very little difference in your experience.

Edit: I just thought more. This might just be completely a ploy for them to avoid on how and when a resort ends, a lot easier than deeded interest. Given that the cabins have resale restriction language the use of the points can’t really be significantly different than today, so they clearly are planning on home resort priority to an extent. If they aren’t then resale at the Cabins will be very very bad, because other trust owners (not just Cabin Owner) would block you.

The way they set up the Cabins Resort Use plan, it includes exchanging with BVTC. So, yes, those who buy into that will trade at 7 months and so others will have access to it then as well.

What we don’t know, other than what they said they could do, is how the other resorts that enter under their own plans, will function for other trust owners. It is very possible they will end up giving those who are part of the trust access to trust property at more than one resort before those who are not owners of resort property can access them.

However, I do not believe that property that DVD puts into the trust will be avualbe to non trust owners, except via BVTC. And, that trust owners won’t have access to any inventory at the current resorts, until they can trade at BVTC.

Contracrs bought resale will most likely be restricted to the units attached to the trust use plan they bought…assuming the rest follow the rules that they put in place for CFW…

 

[WDWFERN]

When CFW is put up for sale in the next few months do you all think is it likely it will be the only resort in use plan or do you think it is more likely they would include a portion of RIV or AUL to the trust use plan at the time of initial sales to promote the transition to a trust format and make it seem even more desirable?

It just seems like since there is only one type of unit at CFW, It is not really park adjacent, and there are limited on site restaurant/amenities, that priority window booking there wouldn’t necessarily present a strong enough appeal to a significant variety of buyers unless the buy in price was significantly lower. I know they can always say, well other new resorts will be added, but I would be very skeptical about this until something was in writing.

 

[Sandisw]

When CFW is put up for sale in the next few months do you all think is it likely it will be the only resort in use plan or do you think it is more likely they would include a portion of RIV or AUL to the trust use plan at the time of initial sales to promote the transition to a trust format and make it seem even more desirable?

It just seems like since there is only one type of unit at CFW, It is not really park adjacent, and there are limited on site restaurant/amenities, that priority window booking there wouldn’t necessarily present a strong enough appeal to a significant variety of buyers unless the buy in price was significantly lower. I know they can always say, well other new resorts will be added, but I would be very skeptical about this until something was in writing.

I think the clue will be Poly tower and the info that comes out about that which will give us a clue if other plans will be added prior to sale.

Since both the cabins and Poly tower will open in 2024, and the cabins can be sold without much lead time to opening, I think we will have more documents filed about that before we see them consider adding the undeclared property at RIV, AUL, or VDH.

I think that many people who want to buy into CFW will be motivated to get a fixed week relating around the holiday times.

 

[WDWFERN]

While the speculation is fun, I would be very happy if DVD would give us some information in the upcoming weeks. The next set of incentives ends in 3 weeks so maybe we will be given more information as the new round of incentives is due to be released? Any chance they will coordinate information about PVB intentions with release of new winter incentives in February? Probably wishful thinking but it would sure would be nice to learn more definitively!

It is somewhat odd to me that the last round of RIV and especially AUL incentives weren’t better, even with the holiday $1000 at RIV. I feel like there is more info I need to connect the dots and make sense of it all in a big picture!

 

[Bo1203]

I don’t like how this would line up for RIV. You’d have 4 classes of owners (direct deeded, resale deeded, direct trust, resale trust (plus combinations?!)). Between the resale owners who can’t book anywhere else, and all the trust owners realizing RIV is way nicer than trailers, available is going to suck.

 

[Sandisw]

I don’t like how this would line up for RIV. You’d have 4 classes of owners (direct deeded, resale deeded, direct trust, resale trust (plus combinations?!)). Between the resale owners who can’t book anywhere else, and all the trust owners realizing RIV is way nicer than trailers, available is going to suck.

If they were to add the 25% of rooms not yet declared to the trust, that is all the rooms that the trust owners would have access to as they would not be part of the RiV condo association.

So, for current deeded owners, it won’t be any different as the inventory is already there in relation to what will be sold deeded

But, given that it is such a small amount I tend to lean that RIV won’t go in the trust, assuming that this trust is for more than CFW.

One thing they could do is simply decide to never add those to anything and keep them for cash bookings so not to sell two different products at the same resort given what is left.

 

[Bo1203]

If they were to add the 25% of rooms not yet declared to the trust, that is all the rooms that the trust owners would have access to as they would not be part of the RiV condo association.

So, for current deeded owners, it won’t be any different as the inventory is already there in relation to what will be sold deeded

But, given that it is such a small amount I tend to lean that RIV won’t go in the trust, assuming that this trust is for more than CFW.

One thing they could do is simply decide to never add those to anything and keep them for cash bookings so not to sell two different products at the same resort given what is left.

Exactly the trust owners would have a lot of fun booking studios, gl to them.