WDW and DL Pirates to change Redhead scene

[Clare Voince]

Gonna have to disagree here. Removing this scene does does nothing for the ride. Doesn't change history and doesn't improve the experience. This is not an improvement.

How can you know that it won't improve the ride? In 10 years time, you may be clamoring for whatever new quote is there. The redhead is not going away. They are making her cooler.

 

[Buckeye218]

What if, instead of women, it was a group of black people? What if instead of shouting, "We want the redhead!" they shouted, "We want the young'un!"?

ETA: I'm not trying to single you out or anything. I just think we can all agree that that depiction, regardless of how historically accurate, would be, at best, tasteless. I don't understand how it is any different.

It's only tasteless if one is looking to be offended. It is an accurate historical representation of the times. It was reality. And again, for at least the third time, this is a fantasy-based theme park ride. This is not a confirmation of the atrocities committed by 18-century pirates. Anyone looking for validation or affirmation of the social issue du jour is looking in the wrong place. This is not a constitutional amendment looking to dehumanize females. It is an innocent theme park ride in the most Magical Place on Earth. Clearly piracy in reality was atrocious. This is a glorified fantasy meant for amusement. Due to the fantastic success of Walt Disney World, it has become part and parcel of the quintessential American experience. Indignation here is misplaced IMO.

 

[Clare Voince]

ETA: I'm not trying to single you out or anything. I just think we can all agree that that depiction, regardless of how historically accurate, would be, at best, tasteless. I don't understand how it is any different.

It's different because sexism is still more socially acceptable than racism. People live with so much subtle sexism, that they don't even see it. Just like all the book titles with the word 'girl' in them. It's sad so many people accept it as a norm, but it makes me an even bigger Disney fan when they are so progressive on this stuff.

 

[MamaBelle4]

It's only tasteless if one is looking to be offended. It is an accurate historical representation of the times. It was reality. And again, for at least the third time, this is a fantasy-based theme park ride. This is not a confirmation of the atrocities committed by 18-century pirates. Anyone looking for validation or affirmation of the social issue du jour is looking in the wrong place. This is not a constitutional amendment looking to dehumanize females. It is an innocent theme park ride in the most Magical Place on Earth. Clearly piracy in reality was atrocious. This is a glorified fantasy meant for amusement. Due to the fantastic success of Walt Disney World, it has become part and parcel of the quintessential American experience. Indignation here is misplaced IMO.

So if the original scene was depicted as I said above, that would be okay with you as it is just a theme park and not a social commentary on the issues of today?

As I've said, many times, I've not had an outcry for its removal, it didn't phase me. But I do think it is a good change.

 

[MamaBelle4]

It's different because sexism is still more socially acceptable than racism. People live with so much subtle sexism, that they don't even see it. Just like all the book titles with the word 'girl' in them. It's sad so many people accept it as a norm, but it makes me an even bigger Disney fan when they are so progressive on this stuff.

It did strike me that all the posters who said they noticed it as children were female. It also struck me that, I believe, all the posters who said their kids noticed were referencing their daughters (but I could be wrong on that).

I just think it is wise of Disney to remove it BEFORE a public outcry calls for it. It is Disney's choice, something I think people are tending to ignore, and not the result of public complaint.

 

[wonderstruck88]

Wow with all of the PC police here. And no, I don't mean the people who appreciate political correctness, I mean those appalled by it. This always baffled me. Definition of political correctness: The avoidance of language or actions that are seen as excluding, marginalizing, or insulting groups of people who are seen as disadvantaged or discriminated against. I have a really tough time sympathizing with someone who is somehow offended by people wanting to avoid these things, and pretty much every argument I've seen here could be turned around just as easily. Don't ride the ride if you don't like that scene? Well, no one's forcing you to ride it once the change happens. It's just a ride? Well yeah, it is - why are you so upset about the change, then?

Look, I get that it was the last ride Walt played a major role in, and that makes it a bit sad to see changes happen. But in my opinion, some topics just shouldn't be presented as jokes, and this is one of them. The fact that "we want the redhead" is considered a classic line has always made me cringe a bit. Yes, it's a ride about pirates and pirates are obviously not good guys, but that scene and people's reactions to it are always the part that is really seen as comical. I'm not surprised that the change has some people in an uproar, but I'm still disappointed by it.

 

[ablair10]

I have a hard time accepting this change. I see both sides of the argument, but one thing I do not agree with is censoring history. The scene is iconic and the famous line "We wants the Redhead" has worked it`s way into popular culture.

Time to buy all the RedHead merchandise!

 

[Clare Voince]

It's only tasteless if one is looking to be offended. It is an accurate historical representation of the times. It was reality. And again, for at least the third time, this is a fantasy-based theme park ride. This is not a confirmation of the atrocities committed by 18-century pirates. Anyone looking for validation or affirmation of the social issue du jour is looking in the wrong place. This is not a constitutional amendment looking to dehumanize females. It is an innocent theme park ride in the most Magical Place on Earth. Clearly piracy in reality was atrocious. This is a glorified fantasy meant for amusement. Due to the fantastic success of Walt Disney World, it has become part and parcel of the quintessential American experience. Indignation here is misplaced IMO.

You are making two contradictory arguments: 1. That it is accurately reflecting pirates and history. 2. That it is a fantasy, and people shouldn't be upset by it. Which is it, a fantasy, or an accurate depiction?

 

[Clare Voince]

I have a hard time accepting this change. I see both sides of the argument, but one thing I do not agree with is censoring history. The scene is iconic and the famous line "We wants the Redhead" has worked it`s way into popular culture.

Time to buy all the RedHead merchandise!

Again: The Red Head is not going anywhere.

 

[Smittolis]

I think it is more than fair to portray the Pirates of the Caribbean ride as a fantasy experience to engage the audience with a somewhat period correct (and historical) context, whether this be costumes, ships, weapons etc.... If symbolism such as the 'Red head' scene are to be censored and interpreted as being provocative and emotively jarring given their subject matter, then this creates a myriad of problems for the many other attractions within the parks. It's ok to be offended at things that others are not, irrespective of your position on the opinion continuum.

A few have already mentioned it here, the fact that poor Carlos is being given a Pirates equivalent of 'Water Boarding' would be one, or the very fact that the Pirates themselves are burning down an entire village... lest we forget the rampant alcoholism?!? None of which have ever created anything other than fantastical diversion in any of my own children. IF anything, those kinds of scenes actually act as a stimulus for questions and present a fantastic (and organic) learning opportunity. Not all history is rosy, not all history is bad either. Having elements of a ride that can support both is going to be a successful proposition.

From my own perspective, I am not sure how changing this particular aspect of an emotionally charged and favored ride (by many given Walt's affiliation with it) is going to offset any element of offense or angst it presented to some customers. This thread and other like it should highlight that fact perfectly, it will create as many emotionally charged issues as it intends to solve / appease.

 

[wonderstruck88]

I think it is more than fair to portray the Pirates of the Caribbean ride as a fantasy experience to engage the audience with a somewhat period correct (and historical) context, whether this be costumes, ships, weapons etc.... If symbolism such as the 'Red head' scene are to be censored and interpreted as being provocative and emotively jarring given their subject matter, then this creates a myriad of problems for the many other attractions within the parks. It's ok to be offended at things that others are not, irrespective of your position on the opinion continuum.

A few have already mentioned it here, the fact that poor Carlos is being given a Pirates equivalent of 'Water Boarding' would be one, or the very fact that the Pirates themselves are burning down an entire village... lest we forget the rampant alcoholism?!? None of which have ever created anything other than fantastical diversion in any of my own children. IF anything, those kinds of scenes actually act as a stimulus for questions and present a fantastic (and organic) learning opportunity. Not all history is rosy, not all history is bad either. Having elements of a ride that can support both is going to be a successful proposition.

From my own perspective, I am not sure how changing this particular aspect of an emotionally charged and favored ride (by many given Walt's affiliation with it) is going to offset any element of offense or angst it presented to some customers. This thread and other like it should highlight that fact perfectly, it will create as many emotionally charged issues as it intends to solve / appease.

While I agree that yes, it is a fantasy experience, the redhead scene is the one that's really played for laughs. That's the main differentiating factor for me. How many people on this thread alone are groaning about how much they love and will miss the "we want the redhead" line? It is, for reasons I can't fully understand, seen as the comedy moment of the ride - the part where women are being sold. The waterboarding part isn't a massive joke with its own merchandise and tag line.

 

[Silock]

I can't believe I've wasted this much energy being concerned about this change. What am I doing? There are far better things to spend my energy on.

If the change is cool, awesome. If not, then I'll be sad. Not really much use in worrying about it until then.

 

[earfulofmagic]

It's only tasteless if one is looking to be offended. It is an accurate historical representation of the times. It was reality. And again, for at least the third time, this is a fantasy-based theme park ride.

Yeah... it's not very accurate, nor historical.

It is, as you say, a fantasy-based theme park ride.

Fake. Fantasy. Fluff. A fictional tale.

So the change, regardless of what's driven it, shouldn't trample on either of those things.
1) Because the ride itself isn't close to history.
2) And changing this one scene has no bearing on the fantasy aspect.

Like many have said repeatedly: this is all spilled milk. I almost feel sorry if anyone can't get over it, but life goes on and things change. If you haven't learned that by now, it's a good thing Disney can teach it in this small way. It's not some grave injustice for this change to happen. It's just...an amusement ride refresh...and it may even turn out better.

 

[sweetpee_1993]

Until I'm dead every voyage through the spot where the bride auction BELONGS I vow to be chanting "We wants the redhead! We wants the redhead!"

I am not amused but such is life in this generation of oversensitive self-victimization. Pathetic, actually.

 

[earfulofmagic]

Until I'm dead every voyage through the spot where the bride auction BELONGS I vow to be chanting loud & proud "We wants the redhead! We wants the redhead!"

How long before every bit of the antics gets labeled unacceptable and changed? Why don't they just make it another Small World boat ride now? Vanilla vanilla vanilla. Boring boring boring.

Disney has already factored that in -- that you will, eventually, be dead. Everyone clamoring about this minor bit will die. There's nothing about this bit that screams "timeless, classic, iconic humor that absolutely cannot be replaced, for it is the hallmark of all that is comedy." Disney can't just keep this ride (or any bit of the theme park) as a monument to the nostalgia of some fans. Every ride needs a refresh or it needs to be axed eventually; to demand otherwise is just not reasonable. They're a business. Their particular brand needs a mixture of new and familiar, and the company has decided that 50 years (or however long this has been in) is long enough to refresh it.

Oh well. As it's been said many times -- it's happening. Try to be a little optimistic about the upcoming changes. It's not such a bad way to be.

 

[earfulofmagic]

I am not amused but such is life in this generation of oversensitive self-victimization. Pathetic, actually.

Do you have any evidence that people "self-victimized" themselves over this ride so that Disney would make changes?

Because AFAIK, literally never heard a peep. Didn't know this scene was a thing. Never saw protests, didn't see any circulating petitions. Disney never indicates guests wanted a change. And somehow, I just have this inkling that had there been a true public outcry or stirring, the DIS folks would've made some comment on that.

So, it would seem to me, then, that Disney likely decided upon this change themselves. As everybody likes to say -- it's a popular ride with typical long waits, so that's fine enough evidence that it was doing well in its current form. Do you have any different responses if this was a change Disney came up with on their own? Is Disney pathetic? Are the imagineers pathetic?

Guess what... it probably has very little to even do with political correctness. Disney has been saying for a while now that they want to capture the market of young girls who aren't buying "princess" merch. Girls like Moana, pirates, pixies, Merida, whoever--the more active heroine role. This scene/pirate change likely signals another shift in that direction.

Does THAT change anyone's view? What if Disney came right out and said "actually, we just want to appeal to more young girls who want to be pirates, and maybe there's even going to be a pirate character based on "the redhead" in future franchise installments/merch/etc." -- then could everyone stop saying "political correctness" ruined their favorite ride?

 

[Lightsoutx12]

I just wish we would get a complete overhaul like the Shanghai version. One can dream.

 

[LSLS]

The idea of turning the redhead into a main character makes a lot more sense than just randomly getting rid of the scene for sake of PC (which I have not heard any real complaints about) now that someone said it. Maybe you are seeing the beginning of the next evolution of the Pirates movie series.

 

[MrTMorrow]

This ride has been around for 50 years. Why are people all of a sudden just now deciding they're offended? Is it because of the latest PC craze?

 

[Dfan79]

To be honest if the roles were reversed and males were being sold. Would people have a problem with it? Heck no, that's because most men and even some women don't take things too seriously.

We aren't asking Disney to raise our kids and teach them right from wrong. Parents should do that themselves. Look in the mirror if your child grows up to be an evil person. People shouldn't be able to blame TV, Movies, Video Games or rides for their mistakes and their kid becoming a dirtbag.

Heck I wouldn't mind it if they put in a guy or two, some of the characters in the scene could even be gay. This way it gives the bidding pirates more options and shows acceptance and unity.