WDW to prevent AP holders from visiting parks many mornings

[Madame]

Understood. The private VIP tours are wildly profitable. But the mid level ones are awfully profitable too. And many aren't being offered.

I see that. Many are in Epcot though and probably an easy decision to put on hold bc of the construction. The others staff has been diverted probably due to shortage, but we notice they found CMs to staff the exorbitantly priced offerings.

 

[Madame]

That still doesn't invalidate his point. The VIP Tours, at any level, are not all running and regardless of margin, they all are easy money from a cost versus staffing perspective.

When you say VIP are you meaning behind the scenes? Because I’ve only seen the VIP terminology used for the guided park visits and those are running.

 

[DonMacGregor]

It's a great past-time on this forum to, at one moment chastise Disney and its evil overlord for wanting to milk every penny possible ("too cheap to give us plastic membership cards", "they want to charge me $10 for LL"), but then, when convenient, the greed takes on some hierarchy. The same Disney that won't print you a new 15-cent membership card can't be the same one that feels making a few grand per VIP tour isn't worth their staffing bother, even at the cost of a $17 per hour tour guide.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Apparently no one wants to look at my comment about the tours

 

[tjkraz]

And so the simplest solution is to allow fewer guests into the parks as opposed to managing the parks to allow for more guests? I realize this continues to be a circular argument and my intent is not to be difficult. I guess I am just not willing to give Disney a pass for not fixing the underlying problem and just putting a band-aid on the symptoms.

Letting fewer guests into the park doesn't necessarily make it a better park.

To me "managing the parks to allow for more guests" means building more attractions. That's not an immediate fix. And as we've seen, new attractions tend to increase interest, which means more guests, which means longer wait times...

Wash, rinse, repeat.

If attractions are already running at max capacity, there's little that can be done to increase the number of riders per hour.

But let's be honest, they increased the popularity of those parks but really didn't add much in the way of capacity. And that's the core of the issue. Disney is doing very little to increase capacity of the parks to meet the demand.

Anything Disney adds to the parks from this point forward will cause a corresponding bump in popularity. That's the nature of the beast.

Not sure how much better things would be today if Universe of Energy and Lights, Motors, Action were still operating. They had run their course.

 

[Madame]

Apparently no one wants to look at my comment about the tours

I did! And attempted to reinforce your point about Epcot being a construction zone

 

[BeachClub2014]

To me "managing the parks to allow for more guests" means building more attractions. That's not an immediate fix. And as we've seen, new attractions tend to increase interest, which means more guests, which means longer wait times...

Wash, rinse, repeat.

If attractions are already running at max capacity, there's little that can be done to increase the number of riders per hour.

I get that's what it means to you, but yours may not be a universally held opinion. Clearly, mine is not either.

Washed, rinsed, and repeated.

 

[Smugpugmug]

Anything Disney adds to the parks from this point forward will cause a corresponding bump in popularity. That's the nature of the beast.

Not sure how much better things would be today if Universe of Energy and Lights, Motors, Action were still operating. They had run their course.

I can't argue with that because it's true but I think what the previous poster meant is that the non-MK parks need more "people eater" attractions in the same vein as Universe of Energy and Lights, Motor, Action vs. lower capacity rides such as Rise and Smuggler's.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Not sure how much better things would be today if Universe of Energy and Lights, Motors, Action were still operating. They had run their course.

I don't disagree about Ellen's Energy Adventure due to its length but it was good for crowd absorption. Lights, Motors, Action may have been too soon to let go. Indy for instance got a slight retool, it's really packed in there despite many in the audience not having seen it lol. There was a discussion in the recent past, I think part of it is people like seeing things blow up, action sequences, etc. Lights, Motor, Action would have likely gotten the crowds too because it has action points.

I was actually very surprised that Universal removed T2 which I had thought theming-wise had long since past and replaced it with a new similar show I was like why are they doing that but boy the Bourne show is amazing, high-tech full of action...and packed. Both times we saw it in May it was full or just about full. I realize that Lights, Motor, Action is outside but still.

I *think* the point was really about removing high capacity and replacing with lower.

 

[Jonfw2]

I can't argue with that because it's true but I think what the previous poster meant is that the non-MK parks need more "people eater" attractions in the same vein as Universe of Energy and Lights, Motor, Action vs. lower capacity rides such as Rise and Smuggler's.

Rise and Smuggler's might be lower capacity but you can't discount the thousands of people walking around GE, eating, shopping, and doing other activities.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I can't argue with that because it's true but I think what the previous poster meant is that the non-MK parks need more "people eater" attractions in the same vein as Universe of Energy and Lights, Motor, Action vs. lower capacity rides such as Rise and Smuggler's.

lol was just typing my response with exactly that same thing basically

 

[Madame]

It's a great past-time on this forum to, at one moment chastise Disney and its evil overlord for wanting to milk every penny possible ("too cheap to give us plastic membership cards", "they want to charge me $10 for LL"), but then, when convenient, the greed takes on some hierarchy. The same Disney that won't print you a new 15-cent membership card can't be the same one that feels making a few grand per VIP tour isn't worth their staffing bother, even at the cost of a $17 per hour tour guide.

Meh. We paid for the membership card. I don’t care if they want to charge for ILL. I don’t think Disney is run by evil overlords. I’ve merely pointed out that at the same time they are short staffed they are *also* continuing what the began before Covid, looking for ways to maximize per guest profit. I’ll see myself out.

 

[Marionnette]

Anything Disney adds to the parks from this point forward will cause a corresponding bump in popularity. That's the nature of the beast.

Not sure how much better things would be today if Universe of Energy and Lights, Motors, Action were still operating. They had run their course.

My point, which I apparently did not convey clearly, is that Disney did not add meaningfully to capacity when you subtract what those older attractions handle. The only thing that Disney did was increase demand without increasing capacity to meet that demand.

 

[Smugpugmug]

Rise and Smuggler's might be lower capacity but you can't discount the thousands of people walking around GE, eating, shopping, and doing other activities.

I'm not denying it but those people walking around need somewhere to go and there are only 9 rides in the entire park. On super crowded days, those 9 rides have 60+ minute waits. In AK it's even worse ride wise. I'm not saying that Universe of Energy needed to stay but it was a solid 45 minute experience that was able fit A LOT of people into those seats. 45 minutes of people out of other ride lines and walkways is a plus. HS needs at least 2 of these rides and AK maybe 2-3.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I did! And attempted to reinforce your point about Epcot being a construction zone

You sure did and I so agree with you!

 

[BeachClub2014]

My point, which I apparently did not convey clearly, is that Disney did not add meaningfully to capacity when you subtract what those older attractions handle. The only thing that Disney did was increase demand without increasing capacity to meet that demand.

I would also add that during the planning process for new attractions, there has to be some conversation around increased attendance, right? If you're building and hyping, a brand new, best-ever E-Ticket attraction, wouldn't you (shouldn't you?) anticipate increased interest and attendance and then plan accordingly to handle the influx?

I guess that is what I mean by a well-managed park. If it's predictable, then it's preventable. If Disney can predict an increase in interest, then they should be able to handle the load. Or not, apparently.

 

[whiteness]

Rise and Smuggler's might be lower capacity but you can't discount the thousands of people walking around GE, eating, shopping, and doing other activities.

People walking around, shopping and eating actually make the parks feel more crowded, not less. Genie+ and LL make things worse because people are out doing that stuff instead of waiting in line. I get that for the individual, that's a win, but the effect is to make the parks feel more crowded.

 

[tjkraz]

I get that's what it means to you, but yours may not be a universally held opinion. Clearly, mine is not either.

Washed, rinsed, and repeated.

The "wash, rinse, repeat" comment wasn't in relation to this discussion. It had to do with the vicious cycle of theme park development.

People want new attractions. The problem is good attractions draw more people. And then lines get longer. And people complain that they need more attractions. And so on...

Weighing appeal of an attraction vs capacity is certainly an issue that imagineers and park managers wrestle with. I hope we're not suggesting that building "Rise"-type attractions is a bad thing. Personally, I struggle with the idea that the parks would be better off with mediocrity that serves as a people-eating element.

Edit: I do think DHS would benefit from something in the B&B theater and Voyage of the Little Mermaid. I get the role of "people eaters." I just don't think LMA, Backlot Tour and UoE were capable of effectively filling that role anymore. Especially when you consider how the space was re-used.

 

[BeachClub2014]

The "wash, rinse, repeat" comment wasn't in relation to this discussion. It had to do with the vicious cycle of theme park development.

My apologies.

People want new attractions. The problem is good attractions draw more people. And then lines get longer. And people complain that they need more attractions. And so on...

I think we can all agree that new and exciting attractions are a good thing, and long lines are to be expected at them. I think where perhaps we have a divergence of opinion is that these new E-Ticket spectacular additions shouldn't come at the expense of other attractions or activities that provide options for people to remain engaged and busy. Was there really a need to kill off the Great Movie Ride in order to build MMRR? Why can't we have both?

 

[Smugpugmug]

My apologies.

I think we can all agree that new and exciting attractions are a good thing, and long lines are to be expected at them. I think where perhaps we have a divergence of opinion is that these new E-Ticket spectacular additions shouldn't come at the expense of other attractions or activities that provide options for people to remain engaged and busy. Was there really a need to kill off the Great Movie Ride in order to build MMRR? Why can't we have both?

Disney should've given GMR an extensive refurb and put Runaway Railway where the Star Wars Launch Bay is (maybe remove Little Mermaid or the Disney Junior show if more space is needed). Every time I go to HS when the park is packed, the Animation Courtyard looks like a ghost town.