What is going on with Disney parks?

[LSUmiss]

I've had my internal battles with the same concerns over the last couple of years, but this last trip I was somehow able to let a lot of that go and just have fun. I'm not saying you or anyone is wrong for having those concerns tho.

This is my main concern for my next trip. For us it’s the combination of Disney changes that make the parks so much more crowded & we now have a toddler. We were able to do things in the past to mitigate crowds when it was just DH & I, but WDW is not little-kid friendly. We know it’ll be crowded & think we have a good strategy for our upcoming trip. But, if it doesn’t go well, we will be done for a while. It used to be it was only ppl on this board who I saw saying they’re done, but now I know several families irl who have quit going b/c the magic just isn’t there anymore. I’m really hoping that doesn’t happen to us.

 

[AquaDame]

the only way to stop it is by people not going, going less frequent.

too many people toss money at disney like its candy, its like a drug to some people.

It's easy for some, not so much for others... I mean, you said you have gone five times in a 12 month period just a couple of years ago. We live on the west coast and typically have gone once a year or so since 2008. Raising APs a couple hundred bucks isn't going to stop the frequent visitor as the value is still great if you go often, so I'm not surprised attendance is fairly flat. They could lose a lot of families like mine who shell out for park hoppers and not feel it as long as others are still making their several trips a year from closer with their DVC and APs.

WDW feels like its meant for frequent visitors and not the random guests these days. Way too many limited items, special events, last minute changes, delays, you name it. The social media take over has ruined the parks in the same way nature is being overrun too. Put up an awesome spot and people come in droves. Mention a new waffle flavor and get 100 people asking where you got it. You can't plan around that 180 days or more out, all you can do it suck it up. Winging it only works when you KNOW you can just wake up another day and try again. The rest of us have to plan with a moving target. I didn't appreciate waking up to a price hike for a trip I "had" to book hotels for at the 11 month mark for availability but months before I NEED to for the FP+ reservations. When I stop enjoying my trips in spite of all the bother, I'll stay home, for sure.

It feels like you either shell out more money for ease of access - be it earlier access to reservations/FP+, buying extra fast passes/concierge level help, VIP guides, dessert parties for decent views of fireworks, or even just being closer to the parks in a deluxe hotel - to try and make up for not getting to try again later or.. accept that you'll miss out on something. I was fine with playing the game years ago when it was just time - get up early, get to the park if its important to you and you'll most likely get what you want, but now its like buying a blind pack. Refresh refresh refresh and maybe you'll get what you want out of your trip.

Think of all the people who say they need a redo. Or the last few trips weren't great but they keep trying again. I don't understand that either. There are other places to go, even other Disney places to go, especially Disney parks.

 

[Mome Rath]

I guess I boil it down to this; we all have free will, and we all experience Disney differently. I wouldn't think of trashing someone just because it is not their cup of tea, in fact I know several people who went that will never go back. Heck, I'm married to someone who doesn't really like it, so guess what? He stays home.

I loved Disney when I was younger, then when I got a bit older, I didn't much care for it and wanted to go other places. That's what I did. Then, as I got older again I went back and loved it all over again. I avoid dramatic declarations as much as I can ("I'll never go back!" vs. "I'll always love Disney, they can't price me out!"). I enjoy what I enjoy and when I think the enjoyment isn't worth the cost, I'll go somewhere else. It just seems people get offended by others' subjective preferences and I don't get that.

As for Disney the company, I've said before, I think they are currently smart enough to look at the data (they are the only ones that actually have alllll of the real data), and make changes from there. It's a big ship and they may or may not get it turned when necessary, but right now I think they are doing a fine job; I love the magic bands, and FP system, I am watching Disney + like a mad woman, love Pandora, really enjoy Batuu, can't wait to ride Rise and MMRR, look forward to Tron, Rat, the new restaurants, etc... I enjoy reading the history and learning about Walt and the Imagineers...

I still feel "I get my money's worth out of Disney," and currently I live my life in a way to have money to travel there, so to Disney I shall go. I completely understand others stopping that journey. May we all continue to make memories with those we choose to, and live our lives the way we see fit. And, may Disney continue to grow and thrive and be around for those who wanna go.

 

[jkh36619]

It's easy for some, not so much for others... I mean, you said you have gone five times in a 12 month period just a couple of years ago. We live on the west coast and typically have gone once a year or so since 2008. Raising APs a couple hundred bucks isn't going to stop the frequent visitor as the value is still great if you go often, so I'm not surprised attendance is fairly flat. They could lose a lot of families like mine who shell out for park hoppers and not feel it as long as others are still making their several trips a year from closer with their DVC and APs.

WDW feels like its meant for frequent visitors and not the random guests these days. Way too many limited items, special events, last minute changes, delays, you name it. The social media take over has ruined the parks in the same way nature is being overrun too. Put up an awesome spot and people come in droves. Mention a new waffle flavor and get 100 people asking where you got it. You can't plan around that 180 days or more out, all you can do it suck it up. Winging it only works when you KNOW you can just wake up another day and try again. The rest of us have to plan with a moving target. I didn't appreciate waking up to a price hike for a trip I "had" to book hotels for at the 11 month mark for availability but months before I NEED to for the FP+ reservations. When I stop enjoying my trips in spite of all the bother, I'll stay home, for sure.

It feels like you either shell out more money for ease of access - be it earlier access to reservations/FP+, buying extra fast passes/concierge level help, VIP guides, dessert parties for decent views of fireworks, or even just being closer to the parks in a deluxe hotel - to try and make up for not getting to try again later or.. accept that you'll miss out on something. I was fine with playing the game years ago when it was just time - get up early, get to the park if its important to you and you'll most likely get what you want, but now its like buying a blind pack. Refresh refresh refresh and maybe you'll get what you want out of your trip.

Think of all the people who say they need a redo. Or the last few trips weren't great but they keep trying again. I don't understand that either. There are other places to go, even other Disney places to go, especially Disney parks.

I agree with much of what you said but I feel the opposite of what I put in bold. Frequent visitors are not the ones buying all the up sales. As a frequent visitor, Disney didn't get much of my money. On years I couldn't go often, I paid more for a better experience. I think that is who Disney is targeting.

My $.02

 

[5kidsmommy]

I agree with much of what you said but I feel the opposite of what I put in bold. Frequent visitors are not the ones buying all the up sales. As a frequent visitor, Disney didn't get much of my money. On years I couldn't go often, I paid more for a better experience. I think that is who Disney is targeting.

My $.02

I think this is most likely true. I enjoy Disney but they don't get a lot of money from my family even though we go once, maybe twice a year. We have food delivered to the resorts so we don't eat as many meals in the parks and resorts. We don't do extras, no desert parties or special experiences. We rarely buy souveniers. Heck our next trip we rented points because we wanted to stay in a deluxe resort and not pay resort prices. We do eat one to two meals a day in the parks but usually just counter service. Our only real splurge is park hoppers, we find it our best bang for our buck. So I know we really aren't their target consumer because we just don't consume enough and that's okay. I enjoy Disney even without all the extras and I don't begrudge anyone who does the extras. We've done character meals and parties and realized they aren't for us.

 

[suzanna1066@comcast.]

Not intended to be political but I live outside the US and I have encountered many over the last 3 years that simply won’t go to Disney/USA during this administration. Simple fact. Not arguing the point one way or another.

 

[clarker99]

Parks are healthy, hotel occupancy is high and capital expenditure on parks is at all-time highs over last few years.

You cant complain that the parks are too busy and that it is too expensive. Like, what? Supply and demand?
Disney is trying to thin daytime crowds with not only increased prices on everything but adding paid events in the morning and evening. But people still show up.

Then if Disney does find a price point that noticeably reduces attendance the pitchforks will be out even though they solved crowds.

I really dont know what some people want? Less crowds? less expensive? It to be 20yrs ago?

They have/are investing heavily in new lands, rides, experiences, hotels, restaurants, transportation, etc at all the parks around the world and some people are mad people show up to new things or are looking forward to the updates.

Nostalgia is a hell of drug. It is 2020 and this is the modern Disney company, which is significantly larger company than even 10yrs ago. The company is obv doing more right than wrong as people continue to show up in droves to their movies, cruises, hotels, parks and restaurants.

PS: I also feel that this 2020 version of the Walt Disney Company is much more capable of dealing with a recession than 2008/09.

 

[YesterDark]

This is my main concern for my next trip. For us it’s the combination of Disney changes that make the parks so much more crowded & we now have a toddler. We were able to do things in the past to mitigate crowds when it was just DH & I, but WDW is not little-kid friendly. We know it’ll be crowded & think we have a good strategy for our upcoming trip. But, if it doesn’t go well, we will be done for a while. It used to be it was only ppl on this board who I saw saying they’re done, but now I know several families irl who have quit going b/c the magic just isn’t there anymore. I’m really hoping that doesn’t happen to us.

I've been there twice in the last 2 years with my kids who are now 7 5 and 2. It's still very little kid friendly.

 

[YesterDark]

Disney is increasing the pricing on APs to make money more ways than just simply making it more expensive. APs have a break even point at two weeks now give or take a few days (I haven't done the math). This does two things:

1. Force AP holders to come longer/more often thus increasing spending in other places to justify their price.
2. Force now NON-AP holders to buy more expensive ticket packages, especially those that come in 2-5 night stays where ticket packages are expensive. (i.e. to go from a 6 day to a 7 day ticket package for my family of 5+1 was only $70 total).

People are still going to come to the parks. The AP prices aren't going to keep people away in large numbers. The break even number now for AP/Tables of Wonderland math is closer to Dining Plan math than anything else.

If you live outside of FL, you're probably getting an AP if you:

1. Come to WDW 2.5-3 weeks of time a year.
2. DVC member with a lot of points.
3. Within a day drive to Disney where you can easily do weekend trips throughout the year. Probably under 6-8 hour drive and react to priceline deals and stuff like that.

 

[ChipnDale79]

I really dont know what some people want? Less crowds? less expensive? It to be 20yrs ago?

i mean, we all have the right to complain and not go. pretty simple there.

The only thing i can really do is not go, and that's what we're doing. I'm not asking for 20 years ago, but i dont feel right giving my money to a company that is charging me a lot more for less of a value.

As a consumer, i have no issues doing that.

 

[LSUmiss]

I've been there twice in the last 2 years with my kids who are now 7 5 and 2. It's still very little kid friendly.

Have to disagree. I’ve been when DS was 7 mos, 14 mos & 17 mos & I think the massive crowds & lack of flexibility make it cumbersome for families with small kids. We are going in 2 weeks & DS will be 22 mos. We have come up with a plan for this trip that we think will work. But, if not, we may be among the groups of families who are saying they plan to take a break for a while. That’s disappointed to me.

 

[Remy is Up]

As someone who just transitioned from Out of state Ap holder to In State, 45-60 minute drive which makes weekends easy, Resident AP holder, I would say we do go more often, we do more special events, and we do eat at Sigs and Sit downs because we enjoy it. We will do a 3 day weekend a couple of times a year and then a single Saturday or Sunday a couple of times a month. Compared to the out of state we did 3 or 4 long weekends and one 9 day weekend bookend week a year. So likely 20-22 days a year as OOS and 30-35 in state. Difference is we dont stay on property as much now since we live closer but we do more after hours events, tours, special things. Id say the $ spent is a wash for us. But being in Florida now, we have the beaches, Sea World, Universal, Busch Gardens, water parks, The Keys, All the festivals around Tampa/St Pete, etc. So we do a lot more local Florida vacays on weekends and still work Disney in. We do so because we enjoy it.
Is the magic there? I think so. AT least for us it is. Its what you expect and tempering those expectations with reality. How well you plan, though once you master refresh we have become the hey lets go to WDW today couple and still do whatever we want, but, also I realize a once or twice a year visitor doesnt have the flexibility of we ride it all the time or we can do it next weekend.
It will be crowded and value for the $ is an individual decision. If you love it great. if you hate it great. But because it is individual choice, noone can make a decision for you and your opinion is your own.

 

[Remy is Up]

Have to disagree. I’ve been when DS was 7 mos, 14 mos & 17 mos & I think the massive crowds & lack of flexibility make it cumbersome for families with small kids. We are going in 2 weeks & DS will be 22 mos. We have come up with a plan for this trip that we think will work. But, if not, we may be among the groups of families who are saying they plan to take a break for a while. That’s disappointed to me.

Travelling with young children, which I havent done in 20 years, is a chore. But Disney should be fun. expect plans to change, expect to have to adapt ( that applies to any trip with kids), and learn to refresh to account for things kids want to do and while I know a lot of people feel Disney trips are inflexible and hard to manage, again as a local and without kids, we find WDW easy to navigate even last minute. I believe it can be done even with kids. Just know what to expect

 

[YesterDark]

Have to disagree. I’ve been when DS was 7 mos, 14 mos & 17 mos & I think the massive crowds & lack of flexibility make it cumbersome for families with small kids. We are going in 2 weeks & DS will be 22 mos. We have come up with a plan for this trip that we think will work. But, if not, we may be among the groups of families who are saying they plan to take a break for a while. That’s disappointed to me.

Some advice:
Plan lunches where you sit down for a while, like character meals.
Plan three fastpasses before lunch and just refresh after that. Let the app give you options on where to go. If you're in a standby line you're doing it wrong.
Do a bunch of shows mixed in with rides.

Plenty of flexibility to be honest with you. My last trip was in August and the biggest issue was the heat not the rides or whatever.

 

[clarker99]

i mean, we all have the right to complain and not go. pretty simple there.

The only thing i can really do is not go, and that's what we're doing. I'm not asking for 20 years ago, but i dont feel right giving my money to a company that is charging me a lot more for less of a value.

As a consumer, i have no issues doing that.

Perfect. But your narrative is wrong you’re complaining about busy parks and that its too expensive. The parks are packed. They are doing something right. They will move forward, with or without you and I.
They are charging more because of the demand not to give you less perceived value.
A certain % of people not going as often or at all is built in to price increases.

 

[clarker99]

I've been there twice in the last 2 years with my kids who are now 7 5 and 2. It's still very little kid friendly.

I agree. My family gets full value at either DLR or WDW right now. Who knows what the future brings.

 

[LSUmiss]

Some advice:
Plan lunches where you sit down for a while, like character meals.
Plan three fastpasses before lunch and just refresh after that. Let the app give you options on where to go. If you're in a standby line you're doing it wrong.
Do a bunch of shows mixed in with rides.

Plenty of flexibility to be honest with you. My last trip was in August and the biggest issue was the heat not the rides or whatever.

We have been going for years multiple times a year so we are pretty up on all the tricks. The issues for us were the ridiculous security lines, transportation, character meals that ran 1-2 hours behind, and long fp lines. Young children can’t tolerate all that. So it’s even more frustrating when you do all the things you’re supposed to do to mitigate crowds & they still don’t work. Those were annoying inconveniences before going with little kids, but with them, it makes it much less enjoyable & often doesn’t seem worth the hassle. Like the pp said traveling with young kids is a chore no matter where you go, but it should be less of a chore when you go to place that’s supposedly for kids.

 

[nickg420]

And as many of us AP Holders as there are, in terms of Revenue, we are no where near their bread and butter. That comes from the one and two week visitors who stay the entire trip in the GF and have the top DDP and buy the extras and all the merch they see.

I've been an OOS (Georgia) AP holder for a few years now and I have to say I've probably spent way less on Disney, even with the recent increases, than I ever did when we would go twice a yesr for 1 week trips and I go much more often, probably every other month.

However, I never ever stay on property unless it's a crazy good deal for a DS Hotel. I only eat one TS meal per day. Also I do all these things not because I'm trying to save money really, it's just because I do the things that have value to me. The wife and I spend most our our days and nights in the parks...Staying at a deluxe does us no good, we just need to shower, sleep, and repeat. We always drive so staying off property isn't a big deal.

The crowds don't bother me one bit...I'll change my plans in a minute and even go to a entirely different park if needed. I'm in Disney either way!!

 

[dlavender]

Parks are healthy, hotel occupancy is high and capital expenditure on parks is at all-time highs over last few years.

You cant complain that the parks are too busy and that it is too expensive. Like, what? Supply and demand?
Disney is trying to thin daytime crowds with not only increased prices on everything but adding paid events in the morning and evening. But people still show up.

Then if Disney does find a price point that noticeably reduces attendance the pitchforks will be out even though they solved crowds.

I really dont know what some people want? Less crowds? less expensive? It to be 20yrs ago?

They have/are investing heavily in new lands, rides, experiences, hotels, restaurants, transportation, etc at all the parks around the world and some people are mad people show up to new things or are looking forward to the updates.

Nostalgia is a hell of drug. It is 2020 and this is the modern Disney company, which is significantly larger company than even 10yrs ago. The company is obv doing more right than wrong as people continue to show up in droves to their movies, cruises, hotels, parks and restaurants.

PS: I also feel that this 2020 version of the Walt Disney Company is much more capable of dealing with a recession than 2008/09.

Since you asked, what I want is:

Longer hours - Not like 20 years ago, like 5 years ago. No reason MK should close at 8 or 9.
Less Parties - No reason MK should close at 6 on 4 out of the 7 days of some of the busiest weeks.
Not running half capacity during "slower" times
Building out capacity - main street theater, for example
Night Time parade - While I'm dreaming....

ETA: The end of this new land strategy of 1 great ride and 1 "we had to save some money" ride.

 

[fatmanatee]

I've had my internal battles with the same concerns over the last couple of years, but this last trip I was somehow able to let a lot of that go and just have fun. I'm not saying you or anyone is wrong for having those concerns tho.

Keep thinking about this point and I think there's something to it. The crowds/prices/construction is another story entirely, but as someone who has been a chronic planner in the past, I've been working on doing less and going with the flow and it's probably better for my mental health.