Why the single mom with kids argument?

[Fiji271]

I have a lot of problems with Disneyworld at the moment, but why is the podcast gang arguing that Disney should lower prices so that “single moms with 4 kids” should be able to afford a Disney vacation? Are they serious, or is that just a talking point? Crowds would be even more unbearable than they currently are. Economics 101 says Lower price = more demand. If I’m Chapek, I go back to paper fast passes, get rid of the app (genie, etc) and raise ticket prices by 30%.

 

[disneyland_is_magic]

I grimaced at that argument a bit. I can tell you in my friend group, the “single mom” has made the most visits to DL in the last four years. She finds her way, it’s important to her. Let’s quit assuming single women are poor.

I want a quality base offering and then a huge selections of extras (actual pluses, not former freebies) for all budgets and interests as life changes.

 

[pianomanzano]

While a single mom with 4 kids may be an extreme example, they're showing how out of touch and out of reach Disney is becoming. This was brought up in the context of that new ABD global parks trip that costs 109k a person, which for a family of 4 would be greater than the median home value in the US. The market for something like that is clearly the 1% and Disney overall is trending to accommodate those folks to increase per person spending. $800/night deluxe rooms and even $3-400/night value rooms, $5,000 for 2-day galactic starcruisers--these are not affordable for the average family. Everyone understands the basic principles of supply and demand, their argument is to at least offer something for the everyday family (i.e have a supply for that demand).

 

[Her Dotness]

I'm still trying to figure out who this mythical "everyday family" or "average American family" may be, "single mom with kids" included. (Agreeing that a single parent with kids may indeed be better off than a couple. That's the hazard of offensive stereotyping.)

None of my relatives were less than solidly middle-class when I was growing up.

The two aunts and uncles who lived within an hour's drive of Anaheim said they hardly ever went to Disneyland because it was far too expensive for a family of four. Both owned homes and cars, modest but comfortable ones, too, so it's not as though they were living paycheck-to-paycheck or worse off since one uncle was career Army and the other Air Force. (This was almost 60 years ago, for reference.)

The point: People who can afford to go to the Disney Parks, domestic or overseas, are not average, unless they must scrimp and save for a once-only trip.

Furthermore, those of us returning annually or more often who indulge in these "gouging the average family" arguments should probably just stuff a sock in it. We are certainly not average.

In fact, we may exemplify the label rumored to be applied by Disney higherups to us fervent returnees--suckers. If we really deplore how much Disney costs anymore, we can do something concrete about it and cut off a chunk of their supply of eager consumers.

:::: shoving soapbox aside ::::

 

[Starport Seven-Five]

The point: People who can afford to go to the Disney Parks, domestic or overseas, are not average, unless they must scrimp and save for a once-only trip.

Agree 100% with this.

A lot of people in the US view themselves as average because of their social circle. Median household income is 70k and I know people who make double that and think they're representative of the average American.

 

[LYSE]

Agree 100% with this.

A lot of people in the US view themselves as average because of their social circle. Median household income is 70k and I know people who make double that and think they're representative of the average American.

To be fair people tend to live in areas that match up with their incomes so it's pretty easy to do that.

 

[MamaBelle4]

I'm not inclined to share our income on here, but suffice it to say it is within the ballpark of the median income and we have 5 kids.

And we go to Disney once about every other year.

"Average" families can go, and shouldn't be priced out to cater to the above-average and wealthy families. There has always been additional offerings for this group - club level, holiday parties, dessert firework viewing parties, back stage tours, and on and on and on and on.

The basic - get in the park and have fun - should be priced at a level that the average family can afford. It doesn't matter if average families stay in the nearest Quality Inn and bring in their lunch and leave for dinner, they should still get to experience the magic.

 

[Lumpy1106]

I have a lot of problems with Disneyworld at the moment l, but why is the podcast gang arguing that Disney should lower prices so that “single moms with 4 kids” should be able to afford a Disney vacation? Are they serious, or is that just a talking point? Crowds would be even more unbearable than they currently are? Economics 101 says Lower price = more demand. If I’m Chapek, I go back to paper fast passes, get rid of the app (genie, etc) and raise ticket prices by 30%.

This would at least be the honest way to raise prices.

 

[DLgal]

I think the point they are trying to make is that when you look at Universal, THEY are building new hotels with large rooms that can sleep large families AND pricing them below $200/night. It can be done. Universal is choosing to cater to ALL budgets, Disney has left budget minded travelers with $300/night Value resorts that can barely sleep 4. In this scenario, that single mom with 4 kids would need 2 rooms at a Disney resort, or pony up over $500/night for a "suite" at a Value resort.

Just a few years ago, Disney was significantly more affordable for that single mom with 4 kids.

I think this comes up a lot because that was Ryno's family structure and he laments that similar families are basically priced out of WDW at this point.

I mean, we all know they can slum it at a motel on International Drive, and just get day tickets, but even those have become prohibitively expensive to the point that it's not an option for a large swath of people who formerly could make it work.

It's just an observation.

 

[gregskellington]

I think the point they are trying to make is that when you look at Universal, THEY are building new hotels with large rooms that can sleep large families AND pricing them below $200/night. It can be done. Universal is choosing to cater to ALL budgets, Disney has left budget minded travelers with $300/night Value resorts that can barely sleep 4. In this scenario, that single mom with 4 kids would need 2 rooms at a Disney resort, or pony up over $500/night for a "suite" at a Value resort.

Just a few years ago, Disney was significantly more affordable for that single mom with 4 kids.

I think this comes up a lot because that was Ryno's family structure and he laments that similar families are basically priced out of WDW at this point.

I mean, we all know they can slum it at a motel on International Drive, and just get day tickets, but even those have become prohibitively expensive to the point that it's not an option for a large swath of people who formerly could make it work.

It's just an observation.

Universal isn't a charity and doesn't price themselves the way they do to be kind. It's what they need to do to compete. When their third gate opens I wouldn't be surprised to see their prices shoot up and extra offerings slither away.

 

[DLgal]

Universal isn't a charity and doesn't price themselves the way they do to be kind. It's what they need to do to compete. When their third gate opens I wouldn't be surprised to see their prices shoot up and extra offerings slither away.

Maybe, but I doubt it. They have been operating this way for quite a long time and seemingly have reached a good equilibrium of profit and guest satisfaction. They have been smarter than Disney has, first by pricing Express Pass the way they do AND including it as a perk at their most expensive resorts. Disney would do well to take a page out of their book, because their current strategy is very short sighted.

 

[john7994]

I think the point they are trying to make is that when you look at Universal, THEY are building new hotels with large rooms that can sleep large families AND pricing them below $200/night. It can be done. Universal is choosing to cater to ALL budgets, Disney has left budget minded travelers with $300/night Value resorts that can barely sleep 4. In this scenario, that single mom with 4 kids would need 2 rooms at a Disney resort, or pony up over $500/night for a "suite" at a Value resort.

Just a few years ago, Disney was significantly more affordable for that single mom with 4 kids.

I think this comes up a lot because that was Ryno's family structure and he laments that similar families are basically priced out of WDW at this point.

I mean, we all know they can slum it at a motel on International Drive, and just get day tickets, but even those have become prohibitively expensive to the point that it's not an option for a large swath of people who formerly could make it work.

It's just an observation.

Looking at 60 days out (August), the All-Star Grouping and Pop-Century Value Resorts (Standard Rooms) are priced at $160-200 / night. These aren't small hotels either (Preferred Rooms are at $177/night). Can't speak to the room size differential as compared to the new Universal Hotels.

 

[DLgal]

Looking at 60 days out (August), the All-Star Grouping and Pop-Century Value Resorts (Standard Rooms) are priced at $160-200 / night. These aren't small hotels either (Preferred Rooms are at $177/night). Can't speak to the room size differential as compared to the new Universal Hotels.

The new universal hotel rooms are multi room suites that sleep 6. Starting at $136 per night. Standard rooms (equivalent to All Stars/Pop) start at $91.

 

[john7994]

The new universal hotel rooms are multi room suites that sleep 6. Starting at $136 per night. Standard rooms (equivalent to All Stars/Pop) start at $91.

But you quoted Values at Disney being $300/night - You also suggested the hotels on International Drive being inflated as well - but not sure what that has to do with Disney as they don't set those prices. If folks want to book a Universal Hotel - more power to them. Only trying to understand where the numbers are coming from a Disney perspective.

 

[DLgal]

But you quoted Values at Disney being $300/night - You also suggested the hotels on International Drive being inflated as well - but not sure what that has to do with Disney as they don't set those prices. If folks want to book a Universal Hotel - more power to them. Only trying to understand where the numbers are coming from a Disney perspective.

I was not suggesting International Drive hotels were inflated. That's where you can usually find a good deal.

Value rooms for a week mid July START at $214/night before taxes (comes to $240/night). Preferred Pool View rooms come to $275/night after taxes. That's close enough to $300. And July is considered a value season overall. Other times of year are much more expensive. I've stayed at every Disney value resort and they are all worth no more than about $100/night.

 

[john7994]

I was not suggesting International Drive hotels were inflated. That's where you can usually find a good deal.

But you said: "I mean, we all know they can slum it at a motel on International Drive, and just get day tickets, but even those have become prohibitively expensive to the point that it's not an option for a large swath of people who formerly could make it work."

Value rooms for a week mid July START at $214/night before taxes (comes to $240/night). Preferred Pool View rooms come to $275/night after taxes. That's close enough to $300. And July is considered a value season overall. Other times of year are much more expensive. I've stayed at every Disney value resort and they are all worth no more than about $100/night.

Seriously? - why not use the timing right after the 4th of July or at the end of July where they are back down to $176 a night? ... I couldn't find an end of June number because they are all booked up. I think we know this variability has more to do with remaining inventory left at 30 days which is why I used the 60 day period in the first place - it was only a $16 difference for a base room anyway as it turns out.

Christmas week is in the $239-300 range from a seasonality perspective to be fair in the discussion.

Whether they are worth it or not, or how much it is actually worth, is up to the person booking them - my question was in light of the OP's observation, your take and observations on room cost for Disney Value Hotels. It seemed high and that's why I asked. Depending on how this fictional single mother family of four is being portrayed - $176/night isn't inexpensive either.

 

[Jrb1979]

Looking at 60 days out (August), the All-Star Grouping and Pop-Century Value Resorts (Standard Rooms) are priced at $160-200 / night. These aren't small hotels either (Preferred Rooms are at $177/night). Can't speak to the room size differential as compared to the new Universal Hotels.

I just looked and you can get Endless Summer resort rooms for $120/night. Those are much better then the All-star hotels.

 

[Jrb1979]

I have a lot of problems with Disneyworld at the moment l, but why is the podcast gang arguing that Disney should lower prices so that “single moms with 4 kids” should be able to afford a Disney vacation? Are they serious, or is that just a talking point? Crowds would be even more unbearable than they currently are? Economics 101 says Lower price = more demand. If I’m Chapek, I go back to paper fast passes, get rid of the app (genie, etc) and raise ticket prices by 30%.

I don't think they were saying to lower the price for them. The point was more about how lately it feels like they are marketing towards a more rich clientele.

 

[john7994]

I just looked and you can get Endless Summer resort rooms for $120/night. Those are much better then the All-star hotels.

I have no doubt and I have already said - more power to those people that wish to stay there (or anywhere for that matter). But, it s not what I was really asking about either.

 

[Jrb1979]

I have no doubt and I have already said - more power to those people that wish to stay there (or anywhere for that matter). But, it s not what I was really asking about either.

What were you asking about?