Will GM or Chrysler going under affect you?

[wall*e2008]

The real fact is if GM goes bankrupt or keeps getting bailed out it will cost me more in taxes. The problem is that Michigan did not care when the steel mills went away or when telecom went away but now that it is them they are crying poor me.

Who worried about all of those Lucent employees whose pension plan went to almost nothing? Nobody.

 

[S. C.]

The real fact is if GM goes bankrupt or keeps getting bailed out it will cost me more in taxes. The problem is that Michigan did not care when the steel mills went away or when telecom went away but now that it is them they are crying poor me.

Who worried about all of those Lucent employees whose pension plan went to almost nothing? Nobody.

Of course we cared about the steel workers and telecom! I felt horrible for them.

 

[CharityLynn]

Yep, we're being affected right now. My husband works in a prts supplier (assembeling parts for GM, Chrysler, and many more) they have cut hours, offered buyouts, decreased salary pay and are now talking about decreasing hourly wages. We figure DH will be laid off by July. Its a very scary time. Very very scary.

 

[wall*e2008]

Of course we cared about the steel workers and telecom! I felt horrible for them.

They got no bailouts from the government. I know many who were destroyed who worked for Lucent. They lost their jobs, retirement and stock they bought. Nobody ran to their aid. I was not a steel worker or Lucent employee but my job and many of my friends have gone overseas. Again not bailout for us.

 

[mafibisha]

But don't be fooled if you think you wont be affected by GM and Chrysler going bankrupt. It will affect EVERYONE in some way. Thousands and thousands more jobs will be lost. Unemployment will skyrocket and the government money saved from not doing the bailout will be spent on health care, food stamps and public assistance for the newly unemployed, not to mention more bankruptcies and the list goes on and on.

I was going to mention this in my original post, but thought I would wait to see if anyone else mentioned it. There definitely will be a trickle down effect.

However, every automotive industry job seems to have a trickle down effect on the entire community, not just the few laid off. I know others are facing similar challenges with jobs in the textile industry in nearby states. I can't begin to imagine what it would be like to have seemingly half a town out of work.

With the trickle down effect it will affect everybody to some degree. I am really sad for our country. I hope we can pull out of it soon, before more families are affected to higher degree of loss and struggle.

ITA with the above posters.

We will ALL continue to be affected, more and more. But way too many people don't realize this and it is extremely scary.

And yet we continue to see and hear and read about people not buying American. I truly can't believe how many haven't grasped the urgency of this issue!!!

Your children, your future grandchildren will NEVER grow up in an America the way you did. Those days are likely gone forever, especially if the big 3 auto makers fail. It will take decades to rebuild America, if thats even possible!

Because what kind of industry will America have? We've lost steel, technology and so many other industries; if the big 3 automakers go under, what will we as Americans offer??

Industrialized nations must have industry. (duh) So how WILL America support herself? How WILL our children and grand-children get jobs and support themselves?

This is a HUGE crisis for ALL of America. For each and every one of us. If you think the big 3 don't affect you then you're sadly naive and mistaken.

(I do not live in MI nor do I have friends in the industry. I just know that industrialized nations thrive on Capitalism, ie industry. Lets see, what so we still make here in our beloved United States of America....???)

Anyone remember this saying from a few years ago -
"Buy American or bye-bye America."

 

[mafibisha]

I guess it may affect us since we have our van is still under warranty. That said, their supposed bumper-to-bumper isn't covering any of the things wrong with the van (my 1st and last Chrysler) and the service center for the dealership is a 5 star dealership, but absolutely terrible. I wouldn't feel bad if those folks lost their jobs. On the flip side, I worry for the kids and families at the school where I work. Quite a few have parents already laid off. If one of these two companies went under, there would be so many more. Very sad.

what a nice thing to say.

 

[kellia]

Yes, dh is directly tied to it. We've both been laid off at least once in the past 5 years due to auto-related downsizing and can't think of anyone we know who isn't in the same boat. We have a few family members who have been looking for over 1 year, it is horrible here. We would move, except for our house that we owe WAY more than we could possibly sell it for. Can't compete with all of the foreclosures selling for less than half of what we owe. I am so thankful that my job isn't related to the ecomomy in this part of the US! Though I believe that everyone will feel it indirectly...

 

[alexy]

My husband and I are great examples of the ramifications of how this can and will impact everyone. Neither of has ever worked in the auto industry, but our lives are impacted by it every day:
ØWe’ve had to pay extra homeowner’s association dues this year, because so many homes are in foreclosure in our neighborhood and not paying their share. (That’s money I’m not spending at Target, Costco, Best Buy, etc.)
ØWe can’t upsize to a bigger house because there’s no one out their buying (That’s a loss for the Real Estate, moving, furniture, remodeling industries)
ØBoth of us had our wages frozen this year because our employers are trying to preserve cash (I’ve cut back on new clothes, shoes, entertainment)
ØOur children’s class size have grown and many incidentals have been cut because the schools have no money because home values have dropped so much (Now the teachers have less disposable income and the schools aren’t buying new text books and other supplies)
ØOur parent’s financial welfare is in peril because their retirement funds have decreased substantially (No restaruant meals, travel, nor spoiling the grandkids with new clothes or toys)
ØWe’ve cancelled our big vacation this year to further increase our savings “just in case” (WDW lost my hard earned vacation dollars this year)
ØWe both work longer hours because so many of our colleagues have been laid off (We’re too tired to go to the mall this weekend)

Again, we're not part of the industry and feel very, very fortunate that we're not laid off nor making decisions suchs as: Do I pay the heat or the grocery bill this month?. The impact has mainly been to our discretionary spending, but when we don't spend money other's don't earn it and pontentially then can't pay their employees.

Here in SE Michigan (aka “Detroit”), we’ve been enduring this mess for a few years now and we’ve seen first hand the far reaching ramifications on even those of us who aren’t directly connected to the Big 3. The rest of the country is just catching up. Unfortunately, many believe its Detroit’s mess and have blinders on as to how it will impact them directly. They don’t want to see how a disaster in an industry as large as the automotives with hundreds of thousands of employees will spread far and wide and way past our troubled state of Michigan.

 

[joybeth]

There is so much misinformation in the media right now. Anyone who thinks that GM quality lags behind the foriegns needs to read JD Power and other reliability surveys. GM is a leader in quality. GM products are also some of the most cutting edge styles around. Anyone one see the new Camaro? Check it out. Read the reviews from Motor Trend and Car and Driver.

The domestic autos need a level playing field. Most R & D for the foriegns Co's is paid for and supported by their governments. Other nations see the importance of this. Why don't we? The foriegn companies also do not pay for health care for the employees in their country.

Think about it.....do you really think it would be good to have our manufacturing sector die? Who do you think will develop new technologies to end our dependence of foriegn oil? We've reached a tipping point people. I think that we need to think about the effect of this outcome on the nation as a whole.

This is going effect all of us.

Joybeth

 

[S. C.]

ITA with the above posters.

We will ALL continue to be affected, more and more. But way too many people don't realize this and it is extremely scary.

And yet we continue to see and hear and read about people not buying American. I truly can't believe how many haven't grasped the urgency of this issue!!!

Your children, your future grandchildren will NEVER grow up in an America the way you did. Those days are likely gone forever, especially if the big 3 auto makers fail. It will take decades to rebuild America, if thats even possible!

Because what kind of industry will America have? We've lost steel, technology and so many other industries; if the big 3 automakers go under, what will we as Americans offer??

Industrialized nations must have industry. (duh) So how WILL America support herself? How WILL our children and grand-children get jobs and support themselves?

This is a HUGE crisis for ALL of America. For each and every one of us. If you think the big 3 don't affect you then you're sadly naive and mistaken.

(I do not live in MI nor do I have friends in the industry. I just know that industrialized nations thrive on Capitalism, ie industry. Lets see, what so we still make here in our beloved United States of America....???)

Anyone remember this saying from a few years ago -
"Buy American or bye-bye America."

Very Very well said.

My husband and I are great examples of the ramifications of how this can and will impact everyone. Neither of has ever worked in the auto industry, but our lives are impacted by it every day:
ØWe’ve had to pay extra homeowner’s association dues this year, because so many homes are in foreclosure in our neighborhood and not paying their share. (That’s money I’m not spending at Target, Costco, Best Buy, etc.)
ØWe can’t upsize to a bigger house because there’s no one out their buying (That’s a loss for the Real Estate, moving, furniture, remodeling industries)
ØBoth of us had our wages frozen this year because our employers are trying to preserve cash (I’ve cut back on new clothes, shoes, entertainment)
ØOur children’s class size have grown and many incidentals have been cut because the schools have no money because home values have dropped so much (Now the teachers have less disposable income and the schools aren’t buying new text books and other supplies)
ØOur parent’s financial welfare is in peril because their retirement funds have decreased substantially (No restaruant meals, travel, nor spoiling the grandkids with new clothes or toys)
ØWe’ve cancelled our big vacation this year to further increase our savings “just in case” (WDW lost my hard earned vacation dollars this year)
ØWe both work longer hours because so many of our colleagues have been laid off (We’re too tired to go to the mall this weekend)

Again, we're not part of the industry and feel very, very fortunate that we're not laid off nor making decisions suchs as: Do I pay the heat or the grocery bill this month?. The impact has mainly been to our discretionary spending, but when we don't spend money other's don't earn it and pontentially then can't pay their employees.

Here in SE Michigan (aka “Detroit”), we’ve been enduring this mess for a few years now and we’ve seen first hand the far reaching ramifications on even those of us who aren’t directly connected to the Big 3. The rest of the country is just catching up. Unfortunately, many believe its Detroit’s mess and have blinders on as to how it will impact them directly. They don’t want to see how a disaster in an industry as large as the automotives with hundreds of thousands of employees will spread far and wide and way past our troubled state of Michigan.

Excellent points

There is so much misinformation in the media right now. Anyone who thinks that GM quality lags behind the foriegns needs to read JD Power and other reliability surveys. GM is a leader in quality. GM products are also some of the most cutting edge styles around. Anyone one see the new Camaro? Check it out. Read the reviews from Motor Trend and Car and Driver.

The domestic autos need a level playing field. Most R & D for the foriegns Co's is paid for and supported by their governments. Other nations see the importance of this. Why don't we? The foriegn companies also do not pay for health care for the employees in their country.

Think about it.....do you really think it would be good to have our manufacturing sector die? Who do you think will develop new technologies to end our dependence of foriegn oil? We've reached a tipping point people. I think that we need to think about the effect of this outcome on the nation as a whole.

This is going effect all of us.

Joybeth

 

[SuzyQue]

ØWe’ve cancelled our big vacation this year to further increase our savings “just in case” (WDW lost my hard earned vacation dollars this year)

Trickle down effect...

http://www.employmentspectator.com/2009/02/disney-cutting-resort-jobs/

http://www.employmentspectator.com/2009/04/disney-cuts-1900-more-jobs-from-us-parks/

 

[Lisa_M]

what a nice thing to say.

Thanks for your sarcasm.

Perhaps what I said came across as insensitive,however if you got the service I've gotten at my Chrysler dealership, you just might feel the same way. I buy American, always have and made it a point to in this case. What I have in a car that I have owned less than a year is more headaches than I can count and a "5 star service department" who doesn't fix the problem and charges me $83 every time to attempt. It's frustrating and continually hitting me in the wallet. I really hope these car makers don't go out of business due to the residual effects, but if they want to get successful and stay successful they are going to have to make some tough changes to better themselves to stay competitive.

As an aside, every car I have owned as been a GM and I have loved them. I would be really disappointed if they weren't around when it's time to buy another car.

 

[Misty89]

it would do a number on my city - 3 of our main manufacturing plants are auto related- interiors/engines/etc

we are at 12% unemploment as of 2/2009, I am scared and sad to see what is going to happen to my City in the next 6mths.
I do not know what will happen with close to 20% unemployed. Stores are closing already, it's getting kind of creepy.
even scarier is that 3 of the factorys laying off and closing right now are not auto related

 

[mafibisha]

There is so much misinformation in the media right now. Anyone who thinks that GM quality lags behind the foriegns needs to read JD Power and other reliability surveys. GM is a leader in quality. GM products are also some of the most cutting edge styles around. Anyone one see the new Camaro? Check it out. Read the reviews from Motor Trend and Car and Driver.

The domestic autos need a level playing field. Most R & D for the foriegns Co's is paid for and supported by their governments. Other nations see the importance of this. Why don't we? The foriegn companies also do not pay for health care for the employees in their country.

Think about it.....do you really think it would be good to have our manufacturing sector die? Who do you think will develop new technologies to end our dependence of foriegn oil? We've reached a tipping point people. I think that we need to think about the effect of this outcome on the nation as a whole.

This is going effect all of us.

Joybeth

THIS is the BEST POST on this thread!!!!

Read it and TRULY think about it!

This is a NATIONAL crisis everyone and it WILL most DEFINITELY affect ALL of you, if it hasn't already!

it would do a number on my city - 3 of our main manufacturing plants are auto related- interiors/engines/etc

we are at 12% unemploment as of 2/2009, I am scared and sad to see what is going to happen to my City in the next 6mths.
I do not know what will happen with close to 20% unemployed. Stores are closing already, it's getting kind of creepy.
even scarier is that 3 of the factorys laying off and closing right now are not auto related

Exactly. Factories are closing or severely reducing their work forces all over America that are seemingly *unrelated* to auto makers. Truth is, they are feeling the volatile trickle-down effect from the big 3 automakers.

It will DEFINITELY effect each one of us, if it already hasn't!!

***Buy American or Bye-bye America!***

 

[dvcgirl]

ITA with the above posters.

We will ALL continue to be affected, more and more. But way too many people don't realize this and it is extremely scary.

And yet we continue to see and hear and read about people not buying American. I truly can't believe how many haven't grasped the urgency of this issue!!!

Your children, your future grandchildren will NEVER grow up in an America the way you did. Those days are likely gone forever, especially if the big 3 auto makers fail. It will take decades to rebuild America, if thats even possible!

Because what kind of industry will America have? We've lost steel, technology and so many other industries; if the big 3 automakers go under, what will we as Americans offer??

Industrialized nations must have industry. (duh) So how WILL America support herself? How WILL our children and grand-children get jobs and support themselves?

This is a HUGE crisis for ALL of America. For each and every one of us. If you think the big 3 don't affect you then you're sadly naive and mistaken.

(I do not live in MI nor do I have friends in the industry. I just know that industrialized nations thrive on Capitalism, ie industry. Lets see, what so we still make here in our beloved United States of America....???)

Anyone remember this saying from a few years ago -
"Buy American or bye-bye America."

I think that there is a point where people sort of take the US automaker woes a bit too far. I know it's an emotional thing for a lot of folks, especially those directly affected.

I think that the reality of the auto woes is that we never should have been making 17 million cars a year. We didn't need that many, and the only way we got there was due to the "easy credit for all" days we just lived through. Now we're producing 9 million a year (based on monthly data), but that's probably not enough.

Still the auto industry is in the process of shrinking in a big way. The weak will lose market share and those well positioned will gain market share. Capitalism at work.

A similar event took place in the early 2000s when the Tech Bubble burst. We had far too many IT companies that were not profitable and many of them went away. Think of all the dot-coms that no longer exist. All of those people were laid off as well. There was no government bail-out for those workers. I should know as my DH was one of them. He was lucky in that he found a job with a few weeks. Some of his friends went months and months without a job. Some had to learn new skills and retool themselves for a new difficult IT job market. But life went on.

And so I just don't buy this idea that the world will stop spinning if we lose one of the Big Three. I think we lose Chrysler ultimately, but that GM and Ford survive, albeit as smaller entities. GM will probably end up going BK and emerging down the road with a new leaner company that is better positioned to compete in the global market. Some suppliers go under, but many will make it by selling parts to automakers who picked up US market share....mainly the Asian producers.

 

[Moeluv4u7]

Business Manager here for one of the Big 3 and Yes! We will be affected- We are already affected- It has been harder to get loans for customers- with our banks and even when the customer goes to their own for financing... Customers have not been great either though- We are considered one of the largest Dealerships on the East Coast and in having that status, we get extra incentive money to take off the price of vehicles- Do customers appreciate it? No! They want more! You can't go anywhere else and get $10,000 off a new Truck but at our place you can and then they hold out and want more- We are selling vehicles at a aloss daily just to get them moved off the lot- & this is the truth- Everyone thinks there is a still a profit there- There's not! We pay our sales people a minimum flat $125- a vehicle if tehre is no profit and taht is exactly what has been happening- If they don't sell a used vehicle they have no chance of making anything- Also, our used department is losing money- We are having to give way over ACV on trade in vehicles, we are also being held to the gun to sell them for less and then end up taking a loss there as well-
Someone previously mentioned Carmax letting employees go... Carmax will never be in the position the rest of us are in- They don't go down on price, go up on trade, and if you finance with them it is higher than you would have gotten from any other bank at all! They make money on their wholesale vehicles! People if they can turn a profit on a vehicle that only wholesalers can buy... they are NOT giving what the vehicle is worth!- Wholesalers will buy at auction before they buy from a dealership if a dealership is trying to get at least bloack book from the vehicle... Carmax is directly across the street from us, so we know exactly how they operate. We have 19 stores under our umbrella and yes, Our GM & Chrysler stores have felt the brunt of this but so have our import stores. It affects the way customers spend and there is only so many "Can I get another $500 off" we can hear before it is just NOT happening! The next part is what I do, the financing... Customers don't realize that all of this is still connected to the banks loan decisions and just because many are starting to offer lower rates on mortgage loans again- A house has VALUE- it is an asset- a vehicle is a DEPRECIATING ASSET- a bank is not giving a 2.9 rate no matter how good your credit is right now!
The incentive rates offered by many manufacturers is just that an incentive rate- If you qualify and give up rebates and other incentives, and "tier" in their system- you may be offered a very low rate at a very short term- Whether you are an 820 beacon score cutomer or a 620 beacon score customer... I wish people would realize this... AND when your personal bank won't give you a loan for $25,000 on this vehicle because "it is not worth it"- THEY don't sell vehicles! They sell loans and want to make sure that their risk is NONE! Sorry to vent, but yes, it has been affecting us, will affect us greater even if GM & Chrysler stay in business because now customers feel like $10,000 is not enough to take off the price of a vehicle and if the companies survive, it won't be for long with cutomers feeling as if they should get the vehicle at a whoilesale price and **** on the dealership...
At Wal-Mart no one takes an item to the register and says, "I really want to buy this today but I am only going to pay 40% of what your price is" (& this is an average mark up on wal-mart's items) Vehicle's are marked up as everyone thinks they are- If you have fallen in love with the vehicle, had a great buying experienece, been given excellent service, - Why, wouldn't anyone want to pay a fair negotiated price that makes a fair deal for everyone involved?
Okay, again off my soapbox- I like what I do but I can make twice my salary working for an actual bank doing the same thing- There profit margins are also set a lot higher- and again, they don't sell vehicles- hmm, how DO they make their money?? Could it be the mark up on their loans, the fees, the policies that come with carrying a loan with them? Who would have thought?
& I hope everyone noticed, I did not peg a particular bank or dealership here other than Carmax because it was previously mentioned-
America needs to take care of America and to do that we must first realize what America is-

 

[Crisgw]

My father is a retired GM employee. His pension and medical benefits are with GM. He owns a contracting company now, but my mother doesn't work and really *needs* the insurance (she has many health problems). If GM goes under, I don't want to think of how that will effect SO many more than just the employees and suppliers...it will effect us all. Where I grew up in NE Ohio is a ghost town due to plants being shutdown....I can only imagine how it would be if GM goes under. I also am praying everyday.

 

[ZephyrHawk]

Yes and no. Neither I nor my husband work in the car industry and the only person in our family who does (my dad) is retiring this summer. That being said, we all live in SE Michigan, and its impossible not to be affected.

As for the whole "Buy American!" thing, there's a bumper sticker that's pretty popular around here: Out of a Job Yet? Keep Buying Foreign. Okay, I get that, but when you see it on cars with Ontario plates it tends to lose effect.

 

[mafibisha]

As for the whole "Buy American!" thing, there's a bumper sticker that's pretty popular around here: Out of a Job Yet? Keep Buying Foreign. .

Haven't seen that one yet (we don't live in MI) but I love it!

Sadly, its TOO true

 

[luvmy3]

There is so much misinformation in the media right now. Anyone who thinks that GM quality lags behind the foriegns needs to read JD Power and other reliability surveys. GM is a leader in quality. GM products are also some of the most cutting edge styles around. Anyone one see the new Camaro? Check it out. Read the reviews from Motor Trend and Car and Driver.


The domestic autos need a level playing field. Most R & D for the foriegns Co's is paid for and supported by their governments. Other nations see the importance of this. Why don't we? The foriegn companies also do not pay for health care for the employees in their country.

Its called capitalism. Our Auto companies are privately owned and operated.

Think about it.....do you really think it would be good to have our manufacturing sector die? Who do you think will develop new technologies to end our dependence of foriegn oil? We've reached a tipping point people. I think that we need to think about the effect of this outcome on the nation as a whole.




This is going effect all of us.

Joybeth

The manufacturing sector of the Auto industry does not develop new technology, R&D does and it can survive outside the Auto manufacturing sector.