Women Leaves Children in Hotel Pool Unattended. Refuses to Gives Room Number.

[Sabeking]

That's just silly. If a parent were sitting in the bleachers watching their child run laps at the school track, would you call that child unsupervised? Are the little league outfielders unsupervised? The word literally means to watch someone.


Well... since you asked. I was there 3 years ago for my brother's wedding and observed a white family enter a grocery store with the head male of the group telling a black employee to "Get out of the way, boy." in the Foghorn Leghorniest voice I ever heard. The young man did get out of their way. And not a soul around said anything. Myself included (to my shame).

I saw more pro-nazi imagery (not even mentioning confederate flags which I more understand) in the average NC parking lot than any WW2 documentary.

I would rather live in New Jersey.

I would rather live in Paramus, New Jersey.

I‘m sorry that was your experience. I have lived in NC my whole life and have not experienced that type of behavior or seen pro-nazi imagery. It could be what part you were in. In no way could I have visited every city. I’m sure there are parts of other states that are not flattering either. I hate a whole state is judged on your one negative experience but that seems to be the theme anymore. If one person in a group, town in a state, apple in a bushel, etc... is bad then they all are.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Well. Poolside Pam, the one that called the cops got fired.

All due respect, it should not be incumbent upon a business to show every rule in writing before interacting with any customer.

Why should the hotel and its employees have a free license to just make up new rules for different people as they go along?

 

[kaytieeldr]

Well. Poolside Pam, the one that called the cops got fired.


Why should the hotel and its employees have a free license to just make up new rules for different people as they go along?

Please provide any link indicating questioning people regarding their validity to use the hotel's amenities, or calling the police on refusal, are new rules.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Please provide any link indicating questioning people regarding their validity to use the hotel's amenities, or calling the police on refusal, are new rules.

I never said "questioning people regarding their validity to use the hotels amenities or calling the police on refusal were new rules. " Read your my post again. Look at exactly what I quoted and was responding to. I was responding to your post that said it should not be incumbent upon a business to show every rule in writing. And I showed a perfect example of why rules should be in writing.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Again, please indicate where either questioning someone to ensure they are a legitimate hotel guest, or calling the police when that person refuses to comply, is a new rule? Calling it that implies it was made up on the spot.

 

[ronandannette]

Don't most hotels lock their pools and you need to use a key to get in? Simply tell the woman she needs to either be in the pool area or her kids need to leave the pool area. If she uses a keycard to get into the pool, you know it's valid. If the kids leave the pool area, does the family go into the hotel (guest) or to the car and leave (trespassing)?

I was wondering how this pool was set up. Almost all the outdoor hotel pools I’ve ever been in are fenced and the access is from inside the hotel (with a key card). If that’s the case here and the mother was in her car in the parking lot, regardless of the proximity, there’s NO WAY she could have gotten to a child in distress quickly. That is not adequate or responsibly supervision. Just sayin’...

 

[cobright]

WHO did? And where did you get that information?

Well, she was in her car when the employee came out and in the pool area when the video started. It's possible the employee threw away her chance to see the mother use her card at the pool gate by opening and holding the door for her, but would you do that for someone you think is trespassing?

Ah, there's the rub. She adamantly refused to provide a room number or a name and gloated about that in her FB feed. If she had provided them, this would never have been an incident.

Or... we could try it this way...

Ah, there's the rub. She adamantly refused to provide a room number or a name and gloated about that in her FB feed. If she had provided them they had waited until she returned to her room, this would never have been an incident.

We all seem to agree that the family was not trespassing. The mother paid for a room with the use of the pool as a stated amenity. There is no clause in the rental agreement or law requiring her to present photo ID to hotel staff when asked.

While none here think it's good form to walk outside the gated area while her kids are swimming, it's debatable whether she broke the pool area rule or not. If she were within throwing distance of her children (just as an informal metric, not that she would actually throw anything) and could maintain visual contact with them swimming, then I think they were at least technically supervised.

But if the hotel management decided that she had broken a hotel rule, they could have canceled her room and trespassed her on the spot. So it seems as if even the hotel did not believe the behavior broke hotel rules.

So what did she do that was wrong? Not show ID to the hotel employee? She didn't give her name or show ID to the policeman either and the cops acknowledged that there was nothing wrong with that. As long as she ... and by "she" I mean "we" are where we have a right to be, is not required to show ID or answer questions. Her existence is not evidence of a crime. Her refusing to answer questions or show ID is not evidence of a crime.

Calling the police on a customer when you have no evidence other than a gut feeling that they have committed a crime is bad policy (standard or not) and morally weak.

Calling the police on a black customer when you have no evidence other than a gut feeling that they have committed a crime when the history and current climate have shown the disastrous outcomes that can result... that's evil.

And when we judge someone poorly for exercising a right that we ourselves may need someday, we weaken it.

 

[sam_gordon]

It's possible the employee threw away her chance to see the mother use her card at the pool gate by opening and holding the door for her, but would you do that for someone you think is trespassing?

It's very possible the employee opened the gate and even she didn't hold it, the woman just followed behind.

She didn't give her name or show ID to the policeman either and the cops acknowledged that there was nothing wrong with that. As long as she ... and by "she" I mean "we" are where we have a right to be, is not required to show ID or answer questions.

Police (government) can't force you to show ID that you "belong" somewhere. I'm pretty sure businesses can.

 

[QueenIsabella]

While none here think it's good form to walk outside the gated area while her kids are swimming, it's debatable whether she broke the pool area rule or not. If she were within throwing distance of her children (just as an informal metric, not that she would actually throw anything) and could maintain visual contact with them swimming, then I think they were at least technically supervised.

What the heck kind of logic is that? If she was outside the pool fence in her car, how on earth would she see if her child was underwater? Perhaps she could if she'd been standing just outside the fence--but even then, if her child was in trouble, she would lose several precious seconds getting to them, once she noticed they were in trouble. As it was, in the car, she could easily think her child was merely swimming under water, not being able to see them, and not recognize a possible emergency.

I think the woman was looking for a fight. Why else would she not show ID? She had nothing to hide. And even showing a room key means nothing--they don't have a room number on them, there's no way to tell by looking at them if they're active or 6 months old. Heck, a lot of them don't even have the hotel name on them.

 

[sam_gordon]

And even showing a room key means nothing--they don't have a room number on them, there's no way to tell by looking at them if they're active or 6 months old.

Having the key scan and give access to the pool area shows you it's active.

 

[kaytieeldr]

There is no clause in the rental agreement or law requiring her to present photo ID to hotel staff when asked.

Could you please provide a link to the entire Hampton Inn room rental agreement?

While none here think it's good form to walk outside the gated area while her kids are swimming, it's debatable whether she broke the pool area rule or not. If she were within throwing distance of her children (just as an informal metric, not that she would actually throw anything) and could maintain visual contact with them swimming, then I think they were at least technically supervised.

She was sitting in her car at an unverified distance from the pool, charging and talking on her phone. It seems unlikely she could or did maintain visual contact with her children.

But if the hotel management decided that she had broken a hotel rule, they could have canceled her room and trespassed her on the spot. So it seems as if even the hotel did not believe the behavior broke hotel rules.

Well, that's why you ask questions first, as the former employee did.

So what did she do that was wrong? Not show ID to the hotel employee? She didn't give her name or show ID to the policeman either and the cops acknowledged that there was nothing wrong with that.

the police ran her plate and seem to have compared it to hotel records. Maybe hotel staff does not have the ability of technology to run a plate. Had the police thought there was nothing, they would have done nothing.

Calling the police on a customer when you have no evidence other than a gut feeling that they have committed a crime is bad policy (standard or not) and morally weak.

Without basic proof, how do you know a person is a customer and not a trespasser?

What the heck kind of logic is that? If she was outside the pool fence in her car, how on earth would she see if her child was underwater? Perhaps she could if she'd been standing just outside the fence--but

Correct. She was not standing just outside the fence. She was in her vehicle, charging her phone and talking on it, from a distance which one single poster has determined was "a stone's throw", "within 50 feet", and offered a "direct line of sight" of the pool - all with zero substantation.

"Ah, there's the rub. She adamantly refused to provide a room number or a name and gloated about that in her FB feed. If she had provided them they had waited until she returned to her room, this would never have been an incident."
And had she been trespassing without a room to return to, what should be the resolution?

 

[china mom]

Several posters keep mentioning that no one has to show their ID. I have watched the video a few times now and I don't recall anyone demanding to see ID. She was asked to verbally provide a name and a room number - which would have ended the whole thing in a minute.

One possible solution would have been to take her key to the hotel door to demonstrate that it was active but I never saw where she volunteered to do that and given that she refused to provide a simple name and room number, I doubt the interaction would have gone any differently if the hotel employee asked her for her key to prove that it was active.

 

[DopeyDame]

What the heck kind of logic is that? If she was outside the pool fence in her car, how on earth would she see if her child was underwater? Perhaps she could if she'd been standing just outside the fence--but even then, if her child was in trouble, she would lose several precious seconds getting to them, once she noticed they were in trouble. As it was, in the car, she could easily think her child was merely swimming under water, not being able to see them, and not recognize a possible emergency.

I think the woman was looking for a fight. Why else would she not show ID? She had nothing to hide. And even showing a room key means nothing--they don't have a room number on them, there's no way to tell by looking at them if they're active or 6 months old. Heck, a lot of them don't even have the hotel name on them.

This "you have nothing to hide" logic is SOOOOO dangerous to a free society. (Way more dangerous than, for example, wearing masks to save lives....)

When my son was adopted, I sent his updated birth certificate to my employer. They refused to give me benefits until I provided his adoption decree. It was MONTHS until they finally backed down, but there was no way in hell I was going to give them his adoption certificate. Likewise, there are some adoptive parents who always carry their adoption decree when traveling. Nope. Not gonna happen in our family. My kid is my kid, and I"ll give you the same documentation that you require of everyone whose kids showed up through their ****** rather than on an airplane.

When you are a minority - due to family status or race or gender or hair dye color - you become a lot more aware of your rights and how fervently you have to try to hold on to them. I don't blame the woman at all for not talking to some random employee about what room she's in. That's a safety measure. I wouldn't tell a random employee my room number either, just because they asked (ie, of course I give someone my room number when I'm trying to charge something to my room, because it's a scenario when I need to do it to accomplish something I want)

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

This "you have nothing to hide" logic is SOOOOO dangerous to a free society. (Way more dangerous than, for example, wearing masks to save lives....)

When my son was adopted, I sent his updated birth certificate to my employer. They refused to give me benefits until I provided his adoption decree. It was MONTHS until they finally backed down, but there was no way in hell I was going to give them his adoption certificate. Likewise, there are some adoptive parents who always carry their adoption decree when traveling. Nope. Not gonna happen in our family. My kid is my kid, and I"ll give you the same documentation that you require of everyone whose kids showed up through their ****** rather than on an airplane.

When you are a minority - due to family status or race or gender or hair dye color - you become a lot more aware of your rights and how fervently you have to try to hold on to them. I don't blame the woman at all for not talking to some random employee about what room she's in. That's a safety measure. I wouldn't tell a random employee my room number either, just because they asked (ie, of course I give someone my room number when I'm trying to charge something to my room, because it's a scenario when I need to do it to accomplish something I want)

Was she a random employee? What constitutes a random employee? Given that the employee went out to ask in the pool I'm assuming it was part of her duties..wouldn't you? I'm not really expecting the housekeeper to come out to the pool to ask me, I'm not expecting the person with a hair net who is serving/refilling breakfast to come out to the pool but those are very visual clues; aside from that if I saw a hotel employee asking me what room I was in I'd assume they have the authority (as in it's in their job description to know/care about) to ask that. So what's a random employee to you? If it was a manager who came and asked how would you feel if someone immediately got a manager without attempting to talk with you first? I'm not sure that would have gone over well.

 

[china mom]

When my daughter was adopted, I sent my adoption papers to my employer as soon as the plane landed to ensure health coverage. I did even get a certificate of foreign birth for several month (not even required in my state). But I do giggle when I hear adopted parents say they carry their child's paperwork with them all the time. It is really not necessary but to each their own.

I agree that when you are raising a child of a different race, you do become more aware of how members of your society view people of color and families that are different from others but that does not men I am spoiling for a fight every time I interact with anybody. I would rather assume that they do not have racist or evil intentions until proven otherwise.

 

[DopeyDame]

Was she a random employee? What constitutes a random employee? Given that the employee went out to ask in the pool I'm assuming it was part of her duties..wouldn't you? I'm not really expecting the housekeeper to come out to the pool to ask me, I'm not expecting the person with a hair net who is serving/refilling breakfast to come out to the pool but those are very visual clues; aside from that if I saw a hotel employee asking me what room I was in I'd assume they have the authority (as in it's in their job description to know/care about) to ask that. So what's a random employee to you? If it was a manager who came and asked how would you feel if someone immediately got a manager without attempting to talk with you first? I'm not sure that would have gone over well.

This sort of delves into intersectionality, but as a small woman, I really can't imagine any situation when I would tell anyone - employee or otherwise - what room I'm staying in unless I understood exactly why they were asking. It's been drilled into me over and over again not to say my room number out loud and certainly not to give it out to anyone.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

This sort of delves into intersectionality, but as a pretty small woman, I really can't imagine any situation when I would tell anyone - employee or otherwise - what room I'm staying in unless I understood exactly why they were asking. It's been drilled into me over and over again not to say my room number out loud and certainly not to give it out to anyone.

Gotcha. If I'm near a pool, they come through the pool and ask me for my room number I can tell you without a doubt I know and understand exactly why they are asking.

I understand there could be certain situations where it may be like "huh? why do you need to know" but this one is one where it's pretty clear they are trying to figure out if I'm a registered hotel guest and in the case of the minors if they are being properly supervised for safety reasons. Now that being said I'm not ignoring that the race of the woman, it's possible for sure that the employee had bias, I'm not at all removing that from the conversation but given this situation there was a purpose to the questioning. Whether someone believes the reason for asking was motivated based on bias is a valid but different question.

And to be clear bias in this case may be on race but I've def. been to some hotels in my area in the past known for issues and there was more bias in a sense of pre-assuming you're up to no good; there was a Holiday Inn for example that parents tended to have parties at for their kids I know I had one, I went to a few of them when I was young. We young kids ran around, being loud, causing a ruckus but that location was more known for that. I know the employees at least tried to have more surveillance on people. Not at all saying this particular Hampton Inn location is the same as I don't know its area just saying having a bias is not always related to race or ethnicity for that matter, there's a lot of bias that can be had.

 

[jaybirdsmommy]

This sort of delves into intersectionality, but as a pretty small woman, I really can't imagine any situation when I would tell anyone - employee or otherwise - what room I'm staying in unless I understood exactly why they were asking. It's been drilled into me over and over again not to say my room number out loud and certainly not to give it out to anyone.

But have you ever been asked to identify yourself at a hotel after having broken a rule or done something suspicious? Yes, this woman had every right not to identify herself to the hotel employee. BUT, the hotel owner also has rights, in this case the right to ask her to leave the property if she doesn't want to identify herself. The hotel owner also has the right to call the police to remove her if she refuses to leave once requested.

 

[kaytieeldr]

When my son was adopted, I sent his updated birth certificate to my employer. They refused to give me benefits until I provided his adoption decree. It was MONTHS until they finally backed down, but there was no way in hell I was going to give them his adoption certificate.

Do or would you also refuse to provide the birth certificate of a child to whom you gave birth?

 

[DopeyDame]

Do or would you also refuse to provide the birth certificate of a child to whom you gave birth?

Depends on the situation, of course. For my employer, they needed proof that I am the parent to the child in order to verify the benefits. The birth certificate proved that I am the parent to the child, and would be the case if it was a child to whom I gave birth or not. In general, I limit the amount of personal information I give out to people, *especially* regarding my children, as it is their information that I am currently responsible for safeguarding.