You're not GAY... you're NUTZ!

[Doctor Pedantic]

Okay, here's a thought. Under the Americans With Disabilities Act, someone who suffers from a physical or mental disability can't just be fired because of that; instead, "reasonable accommodations" have to be made so that the disabled person can perform his or her job functions. So if the military classifies homosexuality as a mental illness, how can it enforce "don't ask, don't tell" without running afoul of the ADA? I actually don't know if the ADA even applies to the government, but if it does, this seems to present a fascinating dilemma.

Or maybe I'm just crazy.....

 

[olbear]

Yes, I was kind of wondering the same thing. It's not like I go on the homophobic board and post.

Hi there. I appreciate the fact that so many have allowed this person to state their feelings on this thread. I too have been welcomed and treated very nicely in this forum, even though I agree to disagree in regards to homosexuality and the like.

That being said, I must say, I do not recall anyone straight being a name caller. If they did, I've missed it, and I read this forum often. The sad fact is I have seen many of the gay community on the forum, dropping the name of homophobic, and biggot amongst others as well. Of which I consider myself neither. I take it as very hurtful and mean.

I just wanted to say, I wish this would stop.

Thanks for the time.
Blessings,
Winnie

 

[donald...really]

Sorry Olbear, but Sonno called gay and lesbians abnormal and in need of treatment and a cure, and then claims he is here for a civil discussion and plays the victim. He sounds kind of homophobic to me.

 

[olbear]

Yeah, I do understand your point. However, I hate it when some feel it needed to resort to name calling. It usually just esculates circumstances and then it gets out of control ugly and hurtful. I hate it when that happens,
But yes, I can understand your point.

Blessings,
Winnie

PS: I absolutely love your babies!! too cute!!

 

[DVC~OKW~96]

Stating that someone is coming across as homophobic, or has made a homophobic statement is not name calling. Calling someone a blasted homophobe is name calling and serves no legitimate purpose.

Nor does stating that someone's inability to be like another person is a handicap serve any legitimate purpose. Being gay or lesbian is not a handicap any more than having red hair, blue eyes, or narrow feet.

I disagree. I do not respect someone coming to any forum to make their disapproval of the posters there known.

I do not respect someone coming here and saying they find homosexuality a mental illness or any other form of abnormality.

I would not respect someone making similar statements about any ethnic group.

People have a right to their own opinion? Ayuh. But I have a right not to be subjected to those opinions when they are directed toward my group in a manner that is painful.

Calling someone, anyone abnormal is painful.

If you do not accept homosexuality as a viable and yes, normal way of life, then don't associate yourself with it. You are not going to be able to change that reality any more than you can change the color of my skin. It just is.

 

[discernment]

I was invited to engage in discussion by Rick.

1. I agree with the Pentagon and the APA before they were pressured politcally to change their position on homosexuality.
2. Homosexuality is a choice. You can not point to any piece of medical or scientific evidence that proves the theory of homosexuality being inborn. There is no "gay" gene
3. There are recovering homosexuals out there that have turned away from their previous choice.
4. As I stated on a previous thread, the gay rights movement is also helping along the cause of homosexual groups such as NAMBLA to further their agenda. I find homosexuality and pedophilia both to be abnormal, deviant sexual behaviors.
5. I agree with previous people on this thread that no honest discourse can be between the two sides on this issue because in this PC world if you speak out against homosexuality you are immediately labeled a homophobe, bigot, clansman, part of sick groups like godhatesfags.com as I was called in another thread. I will probably getted banned for even posting on this thread even at Rick's request.
6. I believe that the gay agenda has been purposely forwarded by the concept of incrementalism.

As in other societied, i believe that all sexual deviancy, hetero, homosexual and otherwise will eventually lead to the decay of our culture.

 

[DVC~OKW~96]

And your position does not make you right, it just makes it your position.

You have every right to cling to your opinion. I have every right to disregard it and find it offensive.

I've wasted enough time on this. I learned long ago that any legitimate fear can be educated away. Not every fear is legitimate.

Carry on.

 

[Thizz]

I was invited to engage in discussion by Rick.

1. I agree with the Pentagon and the APA before they were pressured politcally to change their position on homosexuality.
2. Homosexuality is a choice. You can not point to any piece of medical or scientific evidence that proves the theory of homosexuality being inborn. There is no "gay" gene
3. There are recovering homosexuals out there that have turned away from their previous choice.
4. As I stated on a previous thread, the gay rights movement is also helping along the cause of homosexual groups such as NAMBLA to further their agenda. I find homosexuality and pedophilia both to be abnormal, deviant sexual behaviors.
5. I agree with previous people on this thread that no honest discourse can be between the two sides on this issue because in this PC world if you speak out against homosexuality you are immediately labeled a homophobe, bigot, clansman, part of sick groups like godhatesfags.com as I was called in another thread. I will probably getted banned for even posting on this thread even at Rick's request.
6. I believe that the gay agenda has been purposely forwarded by the concept of incrementalism.

As in other societied, i believe that all sexual deviancy, hetero, homosexual and otherwise will eventually lead to the decay of our culture.

As a straight person who believes in the equality of man, I cannot understand your position. Why is it so wrong to be gay?? If you want to back it up with biblical verses, i wish you good luck, because you won't find any. If it is about this idea of abnormality, thats just ridiculous. The reason we see heterosexuality as the norm, is just a product of our enviroment. Sometime in history, a person decided to opprose the idea of homosexuality, and it stuck. It took one person to create this absurd idea, and now legions of people follow it. The same idea of abnormality fueled institutions like slavery and segregation. Somewhere along the line, somebody let it be know that dark skin was a sign of inferiority, and we all know what followed. Do you oppose blacks as well? I mean, their ancestors had a choice to stay in Africa or migrate north, and they stayed in Africa and developed dark skin.

 

[LuluLovesDisney]

I was invited to engage in discussion by Rick.

1. I agree with the Pentagon and the APA before they were pressured politcally to change their position on homosexuality.
2. Homosexuality is a choice. You can not point to any piece of medical or scientific evidence that proves the theory of homosexuality being inborn. There is no "gay" gene
3. There are recovering homosexuals out there that have turned away from their previous choice.
4. As I stated on a previous thread, the gay rights movement is also helping along the cause of homosexual groups such as NAMBLA to further their agenda. I find homosexuality and pedophilia both to be abnormal, deviant sexual behaviors.
5. I agree with previous people on this thread that no honest discourse can be between the two sides on this issue because in this PC world if you speak out against homosexuality you are immediately labeled a homophobe, bigot, clansman, part of sick groups like godhatesfags.com as I was called in another thread. I will probably getted banned for even posting on this thread even at Rick's request.
6. I believe that the gay agenda has been purposely forwarded by the concept of incrementalism.

As in other societied, i believe that all sexual deviancy, hetero, homosexual and otherwise will eventually lead to the decay of our culture.

I think I am a fitting person to respond to you because I am very religious, overly traditional, etc. I even agree with part of your last statement that sexual deviancy will lead (let's be honest, it's happening now) to the decay of our culture. However, I do not think that homosexuality is deviant sexual behavior.

Many homosexuals are stereotyped as promiscuous on television, etc. and I think many people believe that. They see the clubbing lifestyle and think most homosexuals are like that, when I don't think they are. I knew a gay couple who was monogamous for 20 years until the death of one of them. They were in love, not deviants.

Sexual deviants are the 22 year old "man" that is fathering a child with my 16 year old student. They are the child abusers, molestors, the parents who allow their children to be exposed to inappropriate things, not just on tv but in real life, and those who use sex to hurt others instead of expressing love.

Sexual deviants who need treatment are those who have been abused and are acting out in response, those girls (this breaks my heart as I see it every day) who are extremely promiscuous because they think that's all they can be good at or because they're seeking love/attention. They've seen their mothers have five kids with five different men and they step into that role, too. I've seen too many tears from teen moms or teens with STD's. They need to be taught they're worth more than that.

They guy who lies to a girl to get her in bed and then calls her names the next week in school- he's a deviant- not the gay student who was drying her tears.

Sexual deviants can be homosexual or heterosexual, but sexual expression isn't deviant just because of the gender of the partners. To me it all comes down to the people involved and whether they're giving themselves to another or taking something away, whether they're expressing love or trying to hurt someone.

This world needs love so badly, how can we possibly put down anyone who's in love? It makes me so happy to see a couple together, really being there for each other, I don't care about their demographics.

 

[discernment]

Here is another bad analogy. Comparing the gay rights issue to the civil rights movement. It all comes down to choice. One group had a choice the other did not.

Thanks, i forgot to add that to my initial list of why we cant have a debate. Someone will also always say that you dont like African Americans as well.

 

[DisneyDotty]

Here is another bad analogy. Comparing the gay rights issue to the civil rights movement. It all comes down to choice. One group had a choice the other did not.

Clearly you don't know many homosexuals. I do. They have all struggled with coming out because they knew the ridicule, abuse, anger, hatred and violence they would expose themselves to as a result. And you think they chose this lifestyle.
Questions: Why would anyone choose to be homosexual? Did you choose to be heterosexual?
You are wrong. And I only hope that you do not hurt close friends and family members who are gay or who love someone who is gay with your hurtful and angry attitude. Because you have really hurt me, and I don't even know you!

And why am I even getting sucked into a "it's a choice" argument? We're all HUMANS. That's all that really matters.

 

[Thizz]

Here is another bad analogy. Comparing the gay rights issue to the civil rights movement. It all comes down to choice. One group had a choice the other did not.

Thanks, i forgot to add that to my initial list of why we cant have a debate. Someone will also always say that you dont like African Americans as well.

So, is being straight a choice?

 

[Sonno]

First let me say this. If I offended anyone, I offer you my most sincere apologies, as that was not my intent.

Second, yes, I am a heterosexual male. And I am not homophobic, what do I really have to fear? I live with my Uncle Joe, and he is a homosexual. I am exposed to it daily. Many of my Uncle's gay friends are good friends of mine as well. And all of them know how I feel about homosexuality. Does that change how I interact with them and how they interact with me? Not in the least. I try to treat everyone with respect and dignity. And they do the same in return.

I've had many conversations with homosexual males about why they are gay; mostly because I was curious about their disposition. I have shared my thoughts and feelings on the matter with them, and yes, most of them respectfully disagree with me. But you know what, that's ok. Everyone has an opinion and it's their God given right to have one. I can respect that.

I can get into why I personally think homosexuality is an illness, and throw out all kinds of things to back up my argument; but I seriously doubt anyone here really wants to hear anything I have to say. I guess it's just easier to label me "another one of them homophobic *******s who'll never understand us", roll your eyes, disregard anything I have to say and flame me on the way out the door.

It's all good really. No biggie.
Take care.

 

[discernment]

In the natural order of the world, heterosexuality is not a choice. People are naturally born heterosexual in order to procreate.

Dotty, I am sorry but can you point to medical and/or sceintific proof that people are born gay?

I can not answer why people chose to be gay anymore than i can answer why people engage in all sorts of harmful and negative behavior.

 

[Thizz]

Oh, the reason why I compare them, is because their comparable. Blacks were being denied god given rights. Gays are being denied god given rights. Notice i say 'god given'. I believe in God, and believe in the equality of man. THAT is a choice. Not one liked by the church, but a choice i am proud of.

 

[Thizz]

In the natural order of the world, heterosexuality is not a choice. People are naturally born heterosexual in order to procreate.

Dotty, I am sorry but can you point to medical and/or sceintific proof that people are born gay?

I can not answer why people chose to be gay anymore than i can answer why people engage in all sorts of harmful and negative behavior.

NO NO NO NO NO!!!!! just because a certain part fits into another part does not mean that a man can only love a woman. Maybe men are meant supposed to procreate with women, and love men. You take a something that could just be coincidence, and make laws about it.

 

[discernment]

Oh, the reason why I compare them, is because their comparable. Blacks were being denied god given rights. Gays are being denied god given rights. Notice i say 'god given'. I believe in God, and believe in the equality of man. THAT is a choice. Not one liked by the church, but a choice i am proud of.

So you are going to honestly relate your struggle to the civil rights movement?

WHat choice did black people have about their race?

What exactly are you being denied? Marriage? And you think this compares to the struggle that African Americans are still facing in this country? Compares to 400 years of slavery and oppression?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/06/02/opinion/main1678979.shtml

http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?ID=17265

"As an African-American I really believe that this is probably one the greatest insults you can offer to the African-American struggle," he told Baptist Press. "... It tends to minimize or even cheapen the struggle that African-Americans have experienced in this country by comparing it in this manner."

 

[Thizz]

So you are going to honestly relate your struggle to the civil rights movement?

WHat choice did black people have about their race?

What exactly are you being denied? Marriage? And you think this compares to the struggle that African Americans are still facing in this country? Compares to 400 years of slavery and oppression?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/06/02/opinion/main1678979.shtml

http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?ID=17265

"As an African-American I really believe that this is probably one the greatest insults you can offer to the African-American struggle," he told Baptist Press. "... It tends to minimize or even cheapen the struggle that African-Americans have experienced in this country by comparing it in this manner."

I'm not saying that it is on the same level, it is comparable. Like comparing Kobe Bryant to Lebron. Lebron is nowhere near his level, but I can draw comparisons. Blacks were denied everything under the sun. Denied based on something about them. Gays are denied marriage. Based on something about them. Nothing criminal, just because they are who they are.

 

[MrVisible]

discernment, I have cogent, coherent and well-reasoned and supported arguments for each and every one of the points you made. I'll be happy to engage in a debate on this issue. However, I would like to set up the rules of engagement first.

If you want to argue this with me, first of all I want assurance that you are capable of changing your mind on this issue. I really don't want to go through all of the research and rhetoric that this takes just to end up against the brick wall of entrenched dogma. Ask yourself if you are, in fact, able to change your opinion on this. If not, no harm done, and no words will be wasted.

Secondly, I would like you to commit to seeing this argument through to its end. It's been my experience on other message boards that once it seems that the argument is going against them, people who have opinions similar to yours tend to vanish in a puff of tautology and bluster, only to resurface and repost the same tired and debunked arguments again within weeks. Are you willing to stay until we come to some sort of resolution on this?

For my part, I will assure you that I will conduct myself politely, respectfully, and will address your points with well-reasoned arguments supported by facts. I will consider your points carefully, and be willing to change my mind if you are persuasive enough. And I will persist in this conversation until we both agree that one of us has changed our minds, or we both agree that it's a stalemate.

I'm also open to considering any rules that you would like to establish.

You seem like an intelligent person with a solid viewpoint. I think we could have a very enjoyable debate.

But I've put too much effort in the past into these conversations, only to have them come to naught. Let's you and I avoid that, and have ourselves an old-fashioned, public forum, formal debate.

What do you say?

I was invited to engage in discussion by Rick.

1. I agree with the Pentagon and the APA before they were pressured politcally to change their position on homosexuality.
2. Homosexuality is a choice. You can not point to any piece of medical or scientific evidence that proves the theory of homosexuality being inborn. There is no "gay" gene
3. There are recovering homosexuals out there that have turned away from their previous choice.
4. As I stated on a previous thread, the gay rights movement is also helping along the cause of homosexual groups such as NAMBLA to further their agenda. I find homosexuality and pedophilia both to be abnormal, deviant sexual behaviors.
5. I agree with previous people on this thread that no honest discourse can be between the two sides on this issue because in this PC world if you speak out against homosexuality you are immediately labeled a homophobe, bigot, clansman, part of sick groups like godhatesfags.com as I was called in another thread. I will probably getted banned for even posting on this thread even at Rick's request.
6. I believe that the gay agenda has been purposely forwarded by the concept of incrementalism.

As in other societied, i believe that all sexual deviancy, hetero, homosexual and otherwise will eventually lead to the decay of our culture.

 

[Sonno]

discernment, I have cogent, coherent and well-reasoned and supported arguments for each and every one of the points you made. I'll be happy to engage in a debate on this issue. However, I would like to set up the rules of engagement first.

If you want to argue this with me, first of all I want assurance that you are capable of changing your mind on this issue. I really don't want to go through all of the research and rhetoric that this takes just to end up against the brick wall of entrenched dogma. Ask yourself if you are, in fact, able to change your opinion on this. If not, no harm done, and no words will be wasted.

Secondly, I would like you to commit to seeing this argument through to its end. It's been my experience on other message boards that once it seems that the argument is going against them, people who have opinions similar to yours tend to vanish in a puff of tautology and bluster, only to resurface and repost the same tired and debunked arguments again within weeks. Are you willing to stay until we come to some sort of resolution on this?

For my part, I will assure you that I will conduct myself politely, respectfully, and will address your points with well-reasoned arguments supported by facts. I will consider your points carefully, and be willing to change my mind if you are persuasive enough. And I will persist in this conversation until we both agree that one of us has changed our minds, or we both agree that it's a stalemate.

I'm also open to considering any rules that you would like to establish.

You seem like an intelligent person with a solid viewpoint. I think we could have a very enjoyable debate.

But I've put too much effort in the past into these conversations, only to have them come to naught. Let's you and I avoid that, and have ourselves an old-fashioned, public forum, formal debate.

What do you say?

If he doesn't jump in I'd be more than happy to.