Does David's tell you if the renter cancels?

[CaliAdventurer]

I do think that most would want to help if they can. However if their points are expiring and they spend the money, how can they refund or re-book? You can't give back whats not there.

If DVC allowed them to they could bank to RCI and then offer the renter to book a new vacation through RCI. That way the renter still gets a vacation, not a Disney one but still.

Agree. Yet, hat has to be a small minority of the reservations canceled.

I for one have a small rental that I added on to a trip and have not heard back from David's. I'm prepared to lose the $1400 because I have the privilege to weather the loss. But after using DVCRS & Davids many times, I WILL NEVER use a broker again. If I had gone private the owner and I could have worked it out and if they were banked expiring points, I'd at least know and understand. I have the owner's name and could contact him online but am waiting to see what David's will do. If I don't hear back after a week (I sent a reminder today) I'll dispute the charge to force some action on principal. Its not okay to just say too bad. Not that I think they are bad actors but as a person in sales, I know all too well that it may not be the middle man's fault but it sure is their problem.

 

[Sandisw]

At this point I have 5 standing reservations made for David's customers, from April to October. Of course, I am willing to rebook / reschedule all of them, if needed. I am wondering, if David fails to pay the 30% retained as per contract for the first one, would it be ethical for me to cancel one or more of the other reservations? Normally, if David is bankrupt, that should not be the fault of another renter, who already paid David in full. But nor should I as owner be expected to allow my points for reservations to be used by David (or his customer, really) once it is known David would not make good on his contract. I guess I could contact the renter and ask him to do a charge back, then pay me directly, but this would break my contract with David. But David would have broken the contract first by not paying the 30%. Let's hope it would not come to that...

There are reports of a travel agent, bookit.com, that went bankrupt this week and tourists have been asked to pay upon checkout at the resort, after they already paid bookit - this seems like a similar situation.

If you know that the future looks bleak and you will only be renting for the 70%, then you would have to decide if you want to accept that and still keep renters reservations or cancel the contracts and return the money.

I have renters for August, and have decided, regardless of what happens with the broker, I will honor the reservation for my Renters, even if I don’t get the 30%.

But, I have one contract and it’s easy given that,

 

[Matty B13]

If the rental market goes away - so does this cash exchange option. And yet, mismanagement of this event by the owners will likely have a massive impact on availability of renters with deep pockets, as the stories of embezzling by owners will persist on these boards for years.

I've been lucky, I had an April 1st renter and was able to reschedule them for a September visit. I don't think any owner (even the ones who bought to rent points specifically, and there is only a few of those) wants to not work with a renter, but they also don't want to be out money for other peoples vacations.

I really hope it all works out for both renters and owners during this mess and David's can survive this, but I don't think the rental market will ever be the same again.

 

[MICKIMINI]

David's is going to be suing a bunch of owners.

The broker created the contract and had every opportunity to spell out whatever he chose to in that contract. How can you sue your customer who paid you to broker a deal? As it is there won't be many owners choosing to rent in this environment. Renters can look forward to paying Disney twice as much as who in their right mind will rent?

 

[Brianstl]

The broker created the contract and had every opportunity to spell out whatever he chose to in that contract. How can you sue your customer who paid you to broker a deal? As it is there won't be many owners choosing to rent in this environment. Renters can look forward to paying Disney twice as much as who in their right mind will rent?

Because the accommodations are not available. The contract clearly states that the points represent accommodations. Plus, technically because of the contract the owner signed when purchasing DVC ownership, the owner is the person who shut down the resort. Disney was just acting on your behalf. The owner is the one responsible for the accommodations being unavailable.

 

[Van Houten]

I don't think any owner (even the ones who bought to rent points specifically, and there is only a few of those) wants to not work with a renter, but they also don't want to be out money for other peoples vacations.

The "out of money" situation is not applicable here, because those were supplied by the renter in exchange for reservation, it's not something that was taken away from the owner, even if it was expected as the result of points exchange.

If I had gone private the owner and I could have worked it out and if they were banked expiring points, I'd at least know and understand. I have the owner's name and could contact him online but am waiting to see what David's will do. If I don't hear back after a week (I sent a reminder today) I'll dispute the charge to force some action on principal. Its not okay to just say too bad.

I'm in the same situation - I can weather the loss, and I could possibly understand if the points were expiring. However, as I now know that the points for my reservation (which was already cancelled by DVC, not the owner) are good through Feb. 2021, I'm not OK with David's "no guarantees" and "recoup some funds" language - and even less so with explicit refusal of the owner to refund.

 

[Brianstl]

I'm in the same situation - I can weather the loss, and I could possibly understand if the points were expiring. However, as I now know that the points for my reservation (which was already cancelled by DVC, not the owner) are good through Feb. 2021, I'm not OK with David's "no guarantees" and "recoup some funds" language - and even less so with explicit refusal of the owner to refund.

The owners are DVC.

 

[Matty B13]

However, as I now know that the points for my reservation (which was already cancelled by DVC, not the owner) are good through Feb. 2021, I'm not OK with David's "no guarantees" and "recoup some funds" language - and even less so with explicit refusal of the owner to refund.

Why don't you work with the owner to come up with a solution? I'm sure they are more than willing to help out.

 

[Sandisw]

Why don't you work with the owner to come up with a solution? I'm sure they are more than willing to help out.

Renters are not given owners personal information other than names. So there is no way for them to do that,

 

[Matty B13]

Ugly silver-lining in all this mess, at least for current renters, there could be a lot of cheap resale points coming up for sale soon. This would eliminate the risk that they have when renting reservations.

I know that my family back in 2016 wasn't willing to risk renting out points with a non-refundable clause in it, so we bought our points then, right as the first resale restrictions were put in place by DVC. It was a lot of money to front, but has allowed us to control our reservations.

Silver-lining for owners going forward might be that availability for hard to get reservations and all units might open up with lots of renters dropping out of the market (can't blame them after getting burned this year).

I also wondering if DVC direct sales will be hurt by the mess in the rental market, a lot of owners won't be willing to add-on extra points at new resorts if they can't rent their excess points out. I think a lot of family members will be getting "gifted" DVC points, from DVC owners.

 

[MICKIMINI]

I'm an owner, not a jerk. 99% of DVC owners are not jerks either. I hear owners debating both sides because we are stuck in the middle. Renters - please don't lump us all together and suggest we are all bad people as I doubt very much you are dealing (through a broker) with anyone debating this unfortunate situation here.

Honestly, I'm looking forward to keeping all the points and staying with DH in a GV or bungalow or gifting in the future as now I can justify it because I don't want to deal with any of this. We have no debt, don't need the rental money and we'll live large at DVC from now on because we can. We still plan to buy another contract or two this year.

The four happy families I helped last year will have to look elsewhere as will the two I have this year. If they can't find points they will have to pay twice as much through Disney and that is the downside. I'll end with If DVC is closed when my two families are scheduled, I will take every opportunity to help them...

 

[Marionnette]

Renters are not given owners personal information other than names. So there is no way for them to do that,

Well, I wouldn’t say that there is no way. A good internet sleuth can find anyone’s contact info. A mediocre one could find most people’s info.

 

[McCrae]

Well, legally, you are going to be obligated. You are a property owner who is renting property that you can't make available to the renter. Under no circumstances can you keep the money. You attempt to and you open yourself not only to civil judgement against you, but criminal charges as well.

Debatable on all counts. You are selling points that have multiple uses.

 

[Van Houten]

The owners are DVC.

Yes - individual owners are members of DVCCA. What I meant is in my case, the reservation was deleted by the system, as it met the criteria set on DVC site (check in before March 31st).

 

[Brianstl]

Debatable on all counts. You are selling points that have multiple uses.

This is even in the rental agreement


5.The DVC Owner agrees to be responsible for:

G.Honoring all reservations made for which funds (partial or full) have been remitted to DVC Owner

You can’t honor the reservation if the resort is closed.

 

[Van Houten]

Why don't you work with the owner to come up with a solution? I'm sure they are more than willing to help out.

The owner is willing to re-rent the points, but David's could not find a suitable accommodation, as I am constrained by my kids' school calendar. Finding a studio for the week of Thansgiving in BLT at 8 months mark is not possible.

 

[Matty B13]

The owner is willing to re-rent the points, but David's could not find a suitable accommodation, as I am constrained by my kids' school calendar. Finding a studio for the week of Thansgiving in BLT at 8 months mark is not possible.

Yeah, that is pretty tough to find, did you try anywhere else? Poly or SSR? Or try a 1 bedroom?

We had to reschedule our April vacation for the week of Veteran's Day in November.

You might have to be a little more flexible in order to get your vacation in.

 

[ziravan]

David's is going to be suing a bunch of owners.

His business model will not survive suing a single owner in a social media world.

If he makes ONE owner hire an attorney, he won’t ever be able to secure enough points to keep his business model going ever again.

 

[Brianstl]

Yes - individual owners are members of DVCCA. What I meant is in my case, the reservation was deleted by the system, as it met the criteria set on DVC site (check in before March 31st).

It was deleted on authority of the DVC owner. It is just like the owner deleted it themselves. The owners are legally responsible for the actions under the terms they agree to when purchasing a DVC contract.

 

[Van Houten]

Yeah, that is pretty tough to find, did you try anywhere else? Poly or SSR? Or try a 1 bedroom?

We had to reschedule our April vacation for the week of Veteran's Day in November.

You might have to be a little more flexible in order to get your vacation in.

These are BLT points, so I'm outside of 7 months mark for the rest of the resorts. Besides, if I can't get BLT, I may as well pick any other on-site hotel, and remain open to published discounts when they do come out.