Does David's tell you if the renter cancels?

[Matty B13]

His business model will not survive suing a single owner in a social media world.

If he makes ONE owner hire an attorney, he won’t ever be able to secure enough points to keep his business model going ever again.

I'm also guessing in this situation, only the lawyers will come out happy with the outcome in court, if it went that far. I'm guessing most judges would make both parties except their losses, points for owners and rental money for renters.

Best solution would be for everyone to try to make something work, if they can.

 

[ziravan]

I've been lucky, I had an April 1st renter and was able to reschedule them for a September visit. I don't think any owner (even the ones who bought to rent points specifically, and there is only a few of those) wants to not work with a renter, but they also don't want to be out money for other peoples vacations.

I really hope it all works out for both renters and owners during this mess and David's can survive this, but I don't think the rental market will ever be the same again.

I also had one April renter rescheduled for September. I had offered a full refund even though my contract has a force majeure clause (each party bears a 50% loss if contract can’t be fulfilled due to actions not caused by either party.)

I imagine there’s not much left in the 7 month window now for Fall.

 

[Brianstl]

His business model will not survive suing a single owner in a social media world.

If he makes ONE owner hire an attorney, he won’t ever be able to secure enough points to keep his business model going ever again.

It won’t be about staying in business at that point. It will be about avoiding long term personal financial ruin.

Owners really should read the contract they agreed to with David’s and realize the damages they have left themselves open to if they choose not to return the money they received for a reservation that they could not honor because the resort is closed.

 

[Matty B13]

These are BLT points, so I'm outside of 7 months mark for the rest of the resorts. Besides, if I can't get BLT, I may as well pick any other on-site hotel, and remain open to published discounts when they do come out.

Might have to wait to the 7 month mark to see what is available, also at that time there is a lot of movement in the bookings for different resorts, you might get lucky.

 

[Matty B13]

I also had one April renter rescheduled for September. I had offered a full refund even though my contract has a force majeure clause (each party bears a 50% loss if contract can’t be fulfilled due to actions not caused by either party.) I imagine there’s not much left in the 7 month window now for Fall.

I actually got the 1 day they needed at Poly for September 30th, they rented points for one night to add on to an existing reservation. I also, told them that the points were good to June of 2021 just in case something happens in September.
Thankfully, it all worked out.

 

[Van Houten]

Might have to wait to the 7 month mark to see what is available, also at that time there is a lot of movement in the bookings for different resorts, you might get lucky.

I would not mind waiting if I had control of the clicker, but with all the relaying between David's and the owner, plus potentially more of David's clients getting impacted, I can't see that happening. More importantly, the language David's team is using is rubbing me the wrong way - they will likely end up dealing with a credit card claim at this point.

 

[GoingSince1990]

I would be amazed if any broker sues any owner. The few thousand dollars maximum that any individual owner would be liable for, and which may well not be recoverable, would be highly unlikely to offset the legal fees of a lawsuit.

 

[Matty B13]

I would not mind waiting if I had control of the clicker, but with all the relaying between David's and the owner, plus potentially more of David's clients getting impacted, I can't see that happening. More importantly, the language David's team is using is rubbing me the wrong way - they will likely end up dealing with a credit card claim at this point.

In this situation I think a charge back is best. Unfortunately if you really wanted a BLT studio and want a refundable reservation you will have to go through Disney and their inflated prices, or go for a cash hotel room.

Hopefully the owner can use their points for someone else and David’s can get you a refund soon. Hope you didn’t use PayPal, because I don’t think they get involved with timeshare transactions.

 

[Brianstl]

I would be amazed if any broker sues any owner. The few thousand dollars maximum that any individual owner would be liable for, and which may well not be recoverable, would be highly unlikely to offset the legal fees of a lawsuit.

They would sue for legal fees and other damages in addition to the unreturned payment. Then they will place a lien on the DVC and force a sale to recover their reward.

 

[fsjking]

At this point I have 5 standing reservations made for David's customers, from April to October. Of course, I am willing to rebook / reschedule all of them, if needed. I am wondering, if David fails to pay the 30% retained as per contract for the first one, would it be ethical for me to cancel one or more of the other reservations? Normally, if David is bankrupt, that should not be the fault of another renter, who already paid David in full. But nor should I as owner be expected to allow my points for reservations to be used by David (or his customer, really) once it is known David would not make good on his contract. I guess I could contact the renter and ask him to do a charge back, then pay me directly, but this would break my contract with David. But David would have broken the contract first by not paying the 30%. Let's hope it would not come to that...

There are reports of a travel agent, bookit.com, that went bankrupt this week and tourists have been asked to pay upon checkout at the resort, after they already paid bookit - this seems like a similar situation.

While I do understand the thought there, what you have to worry about there is each contract is an individual agreement. Each one you cancel you'd be in breach of contract on and be responsible to repay everything you were paid on those contracts. If it were to go down the rabbit hole and ended up in court, you might be able to get your 30% on the one, but have to repay the 70% on the rest. Even if David's goes bankrupt, there is a possibility that credit card companies could force that issue to recoup chargebacks from renters.

His business model will not survive suing a single owner in a social media world.

If he makes ONE owner hire an attorney, he won’t ever be able to secure enough points to keep his business model going ever again.

I think theres an avenue to sue owners if they get their points back, refuse to refund/rebook, then use the points anyway. That would be individual cases though. But really, the scenario where owners start getting sued is if David's folds and isn't going to need owners any more anyway.

I would be amazed if any broker sues any owner. The few thousand dollars maximum that any individual owner would be liable for, and which may well not be recoverable, would be highly unlikely to offset the legal fees of a lawsuit.

It wouldn't necessarily be a broker. It could be a result of bankruptcy and trying to recoup losses. I don't know how many rentals David's has going at any time, but i'm guessing if he has 40 people on staff like has been claimed here, It would have to be quite a few. Stretch the closures out over a few months and we could be talking a lot of money. At that point, lawyers will start sending letters.

 

[Van Houten]

In this situation I think a charge back is best. Unfortunately if you really wanted a BLT studio and want a refundable reservation you will have to go through Disney and their inflated prices, or go for a cash hotel room.

Hopefully the owner can use their points for someone else and David’s can get you a refund soon. Hope you didn’t use PayPal, because I don’t think they get involved with timeshare transactions.

BLT studio was the target - this reservation was originally made at 11 months on the dot. The points are good through Feb'21, but as of December our family will no longer fit BLT studio occupancy, so I'm not able to use these points for some choice dates in December that I would have otherwise snagged.

 

[GoingSince1990]

They would sue for legal fees and other damages in addition to the unreturned payment. Then they will place a lien on the DVC and force a sale to recover their reward.

In the United States the winning side in a lawsuit almost always has to pay its own legal fees, with very, very few exceptions, none of which would apply here.
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/attorney-fees-does-losing-side-30337.html

 

[Brianstl]

In the United States the winning side in a lawsuit almost always has to pay its own legal fees, with very, very few exceptions, none of which would apply here.
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/attorney-fees-does-losing-side-30337.html

The contract with David’s includes attorney fee language. Plus, it tries to establish Ontario as the venue for any case. I don’t think Ontario would end being the venue for multiple reasons, but I see no reasons the attorney fee language wouldn’t hold up.

 

[Matty B13]

In the United States the winning side in a lawsuit almost always has to pay its own legal fees, with very, very few exceptions, none of which would apply here.
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/attorney-fees-does-losing-side-30337.html

I think most people don’t know this about the US Justice System, they don’t find out until they actually have to go through a real lawsuit and trial.

 

[CraigInPA]

David's is going to be suing a bunch of owners.

I don't see that happening. It would alienate the owners who may be considering renting points in the future, without whom he has no future business.

 

[Van Houten]

I don't see that happening. It would alienate the owners who may be considering renting points in the future, without whom he has no future business.

So far his team is doing just fine alienating renters, without whom not only his business, but the entire DVC rentals space, including owners, will greatly suffer.

 

[CraigInPA]

Well, legally, you are going to be obligated. You are a property owner who is renting property that you can't make available to the renter. Under no circumstances can you keep the money. You attempt to and you open yourself not only to civil judgement against you, but criminal charges as well.

You're ignoring the fact that some, perhaps many, or even most, owners did NOT get points back in the same condition as they were rented. When banked points were rented, they had a value of $14.50 to David's and the owner. When they were returned, they may have no value because they are about to expire, with no option to book another reservation with it.

Your blanket statement regarding civil and criminal judgements is so unlikely in a US court that it is laughable.

 

[fsjking]

You're ignoring the fact that some, perhaps many, or even most, owners did NOT get points back in the same condition as they were rented. When banked points were rented, they had a value of $14.50 to David's and the owner. When they were returned, they may have no value because they are about to expire, with no option to book another reservation with it.

Your blanket statement regarding civil and criminal judgements is so unlikely in a US court that it is laughable.

You think David's, a Canadian company, will sue you in a US court?

 

[Sandisw]

I also had one April renter rescheduled for September. I had offered a full refund even though my contract has a force majeure clause (each party bears a 50% loss if contract can’t be fulfilled due to actions not caused by either party.)

I imagine there’s not much left in the 7 month window now for Fall.

I would guess that this type of contact will be put in place in the future and you know for sure, both you and your renters, had the same understanding!

 

[GoingSince1990]

The contract with David’s includes attorney fee language. Plus, it tries to establish Ontario as the venue for any case. I don’t think Ontario would end being the venue for multiple reasons, but I see no reasons the attorney fee language wouldn’t hold up.

This is the agreement from the most recent time I rented some of my points through David's. There is certainly no language that envisages the points owner ("Member") being liable for attorney fees, but perhaps the contract has changed since then.

Renter has paid the NON REFUNDABLE balance owing of $XXXX US Dollars in full and acknowledges the ability to confirm the reservation at http://www.dvcrequest.com/check-in.asp as well as pre-registering up to 60 days in advance of the scheduled arrival date.

Renter agrees to abide by all Disney Vacation Club terms, policies and rules applicable to Disney Vacation Club members and Disney Vacation Club membership. Renter agrees to be responsible for any unpaid charges or damages to the unit rented, including all contents and improvements, Disney Vacation Club property and Disney property during his/her stay that are assessed against the Member or his membership. Any unpaid charges or damages assessed shall be reimbursed to the Member or the Intermediary or their assigned agents within 60 business days of notice to Renter. Sending a fax or e-mail copy of a Disney Vacation Club or other Walt Disney Company communication assessing the charges or damages shall satisfy notice to the Renter. Renter agrees to pay any and all charges to the Member or the Intermediary or their assigned agents for any fees or charges related to the collection of any monies owing.

This is an agreement to rent points that represent accommodations only.
There are no ticket media, transportation, meals, transfers, insurance, or other items included. Prepaid items purchased in conjunction with this reservation such as Dining Plans and Park Tickets are subject to the terms and conditions of the Disney Vacation Club and are considered outside of the scope of the rental agreement.

Renter understands there are no daily housekeeping services at Disney Vacation Club resorts, but rather Trash and Towel service. If Renter's stay is for less than eight nights, Renter will receive Trash & Towel service on day four. If Renter's stay is for eight nights or longer, The Renter will receive full cleaning service on day four, and Trash & Towel service on day eight. After that, the cycle begins again on day twelve. Day one is check-in day.

Should accommodations not be available on date of arrival due to an action or omission by the Member, including but not limited to negligence on the part of the Member and after communication with the Intermediary, suitable comparable accommodations for the same dates cannot be secured by the Member, the Renter will be due a refund limited to the amount paid which is $XXXX US Dollars.

Pets are not permitted to stay at Disney Vacation Club Resorts, except for service animals as defined by the Americans with Disabilities Act.

Documentation Requirements: If you are not an American Citizen residing in the United States of America you will be required to present a valid passport in order to enter and exit the United States of America. Citizens outside of the United States of America without a valid passport will be refused entry into the United States of America and returned to their country of origin. Entry into the United States of America may be refused even if the required information and travel documents are complete.

Living standards and practices at the destination and standards and conditions there with respect to the provision of utilities, services and accommodation may differ from those found in your resident country.