Why stay on property?

[marinejjh]

We just returned last week. I can honestly say the magic is completely gone and people have zero reason to stay on property. It was definitely my families last trip. My kids even said they would have a better time at a beach.

 

[jeffmw]

The commonality I see is that most "On siters" talk about the Deluxe/Premium/Highest level at WDW being worth it.

I'm not seeing many I love staying at the $170 All Star Values or even the moderates. The good feelings are all being generated by the highest tier that has great location.

This makes sense, although I'd say it covers the Deluxe and the Moderates, too. There is very little out there like a Port Orleans that's so massive and immersive. For me, those are as 'bubblish' as the Deluxes. But I think you're right about the Value resorts, which is probably why Disney has continued to build new resorts but built basically nothing but Deluxe rooms over the past 15 years. They can compete for the higher-end audience who splurge, but given that people looking at Values are by nature being more cost-conscious, that also makes them more likely to question staying on site in the first place.

 

[jeffmw]

We just returned last week. I can honestly say the magic is completely gone and people have zero reason to stay on property. It was definitely my families last trip. My kids even said they would have a better time at a beach.

Can you elaborate? Would love to know why you had such a bad experience. Have you typically stayed onsite in the past?

 

[SaintsManiac]

We just returned last week. I can honestly say the magic is completely gone and people have zero reason to stay on property. It was definitely my families last trip. My kids even said they would have a better time at a beach.

YOU have zero reason to stay on property. You can't speak for all people on this. Come on now.

 

[mrsap]

YOU have zero reason to stay on property. You can't speak for all people on this. Come on now.

I actually laughed when I read that post! I was just there for two weeks in December... it was just as magical as all the previous trips I’ve ever taken. I’m counting down the seconds till my next one!!

 

[jrsharp21]

We are currently having this conversation in our family, do we stay onsite, try one of the Disney Springs hotels, or try offsite. We had a big trip planned last September for my daughter's 21st birthday and obviously those plans changed. We are going this September now. We have always stayed onsite. We usually stay at Pop and last time it was the suites at AS Music. We were originally planning on getting two rooms at Pop or AS Movies for our September trip. But just found out that my daughters friends want to go but affording everything may be difficult. So one of the things we were contemplating was trying out the Double Tree in Disney Springs area which would give them the capacity to have 6 people in their room. It's about $70/night cheaper per room. It was either that or try another nearby offsite hotel with suites. Like people have mentioned in the conversation, it is hard to leave the bubble. I do love being immersed in all things Disney. I love never having to leave WDW property. Trying to decide that if we go offsite will it diminish the experience for us. Tough call.

 

[Farro]

I looked yesterday and rooms at RP and the other high-end Universal hotels were ~$300 per night. My Beach Club room for the same time period is nearly 2x that. And the Universal stay comes with Express Unlimited. Unless I'm missing something, it's way cheaper.

And I said Gran Destino. (but you can walk to Epcot and DHS from Beach Club. Don't think you can walk to those parks from an off-site hotel)

We are talking staying on-site right? So if I ever do a Universal Trip, I will stay on-site at Universal. For my WDW trip, I will stay on-site at WDW.
Easy-peasy.

 

[kylenne]

I would second this as my takeaway from thread. I think there is very compelling reason to stay at Epcot resort or monorail resort over the off site options despite the price difference. When you start looking at Disney value resorts or the moderate resorts the benefits of on site seem to be more directly effected by these changes as the location isn’t as premium so the other benefits need to justify value (although price difference is smaller as well).

Anyone have any thoughts about staying on site in value room vs offsite? For me my value stays have always been in the cheaper rooms with free dining plan as driver. I’ve never priced out full stay on site vs off but for this with free qs meal plan at $50 a day per person for up to 4 adults I believe it actually makes the room “free”. Ive always assumed I pay for it somewhere else but I never explored cost of offsite hotels or third party tickets to see where markup came from. Without meal plan deal I would find it difficult to justify the on site costs of going value especially with limiting of benefits.

I'm probably a bad person to respond to this because I'm not a Value person--I didn't even care for the one Mod stay I did, at the one everyone raves about (POFQ). The number one reason I stay on property is proximity to parks followed by theming and none of the Values meet that criteria to me (I don't like the giant icons at all).

But if the only thing we're considering is price, I don't think Values are especially compelling compared to offsite with the exception of the Skyliner resorts. The renos have improved them a lot, and they don't arbitrarily lack basic amenities anymore to distinguish them from the other categories, but they're still ridiculous for what you get for your dollar compared to offsite.

 

[GADisneyDad14]

This makes sense, although I'd say it covers the Deluxe and the Moderates, too. There is very little out there like a Port Orleans that's so massive and immersive. For me, those are as 'bubblish' as the Deluxes. But I think you're right about the Value resorts, which is probably why Disney has continued to build new resorts but built basically nothing but Deluxe rooms over the past 15 years. They can compete for the higher-end audience who splurge, but given that people looking at Values are by nature being more cost-conscious, that also makes them more likely to question staying on site in the first place.

Sorry to be one to jump in with a technicality on this, but Disney has not built an actual Deluxe resort hotel since 2001 (Animal Kingdom Lodge). The only other resort hotels they've built in any category since then has been Pop in 2003, AoA in 2012 (both delayed/modified projects in the aftermath of 9/11), and Gran Destino Tower in 2019 (a moderate, but has the feel of a deluxe). But as far as resort hotel (non-DVC) construction, that's it.

Of course they have built/converted plenty of DVC rooms during that time - BCV 2002, SSR 2004, BLT 2009, VGF 2013, Poly Villas/Bungalows 2015, CCV 2017, Riv 2019. Several of those (BLT, Poly, CCV) took away Deluxe hotel room inventory. Riv took away some Moderate hotel room inventory.

Some view hotel rooms and villas as one in the same, which I understand - however I personally think of them as different lodging types/options.

On some level my take is that Disney has for much of the last 15-20ish years largely ignored offering anything new for resort hotel guests on all levels in favor of the instant-profit DVC model. They've made things harder and more expensive to book at places like Poly and WL with the reduced hotel inventory. At the same time the hotel room stock has generally been aging to the point where the quality comes into question, especially relative to modern hotel design trends. Fortunately Disney has been in renovation mode over the last few years, with major room renovations to the hotel inventory up and down the category scale (and even in these COVID times still pouring big money into renovations at WL, Poly, and soon to be CR).

Reflections was supposed to be part hotel / part DVC - which I was looking forward to since that would have been the first new deluxe hotel room stock added in over 20 years.

But other than that, with some exceptions Disney really hasn't seemed to have much of a desire to build all that much of anything non-DVC - and that's probably the way things will always be, generally speaking.

Sorry for the tangent there.

 

[Moliphino]

The commonality I see is that most "On siters" talk about the Deluxe/Premium/Highest level at WDW being worth it.

I'm not seeing many I love staying at the $170 All Star Values or even the moderates. The good feelings are all being generated by the highest tier that has great location.

I usually stay at Pop and find it still worth it for the "bubble", theming, and resort to park transportation. They're certainly eroding that feeling with taking away DME, charging for parking, etc., but it isn't gone yet. I don't want to leave the bubble and I don't want to drive on vacation (or cook or do laundry).

I have stayed at DS hotels in the past (Courtyard Marriott, Hilton), but they just don't have the same feel and the transportation was never as good.

 

[chicagodisneyguy]

We've stayed almost exclusively on property since buying DVC in 2008. We just enjoy staying completely in the Disney "bubble". For us it makes us feel like the vacation doesn't pause when heading to the hotel at night. The pools, restaurants, and bars/lounges the Disney resorts we stay at have feel just as much Disney as the in-park offerings which we enjoy. We did our first DL trip early in 2020 and stayed at a Hilton down the street. We really regretted not staying at the Grand California. Just the proximity, cast members, and ease of staying on site was missed.

I do worry that the current CEO and underlings are leaning towards the management by spreadsheet approach. Cutting benefits while keeping prices constant or increasing them. This unfortunately is not a way to innovate. While it increases value for shareholders it comes at the expense of happy customers and employees. I am hoping that some of the cuts we've seen are temporary, or will be replaced by new offerings (tho I'm not holding my breath).

As long as we keep vacationing at WDW we'll stay on site. For us the location and remaining benefits are still worth it. When they aren't we'll re-evaluate.

 

[WorldOfPooh]

We are currently having this conversation in our family, do we stay onsite, try one of the Disney Springs hotels, or try offsite. We had a big trip planned last September for my daughter's 21st birthday and obviously those plans changed. We are going this September now. We have always stayed onsite. We usually stay at Pop and last time it was the suites at AS Music. We were originally planning on getting two rooms at Pop or AS Movies for our September trip. But just found out that my daughters friends want to go but affording everything may be difficult. So one of the things we were contemplating was trying out the Double Tree in Disney Springs area which would give them the capacity to have 6 people in their room. It's about $70/night cheaper per room. It was either that or try another nearby offsite hotel with suites. Like people have mentioned in the conversation, it is hard to leave the bubble. I do love being immersed in all things Disney. I love never having to leave WDW property. Trying to decide that if we go offsite will it diminish the experience for us. Tough call.

You could do a bunch of nights at Double Tree (has a resort fee and parking fee but may have EMH in Sept) or Homewood Suites Lake Buena Vista (no parking or resort fee, but no EMH)

and then maybe the last night or two on site just for the experience.

 

[jrsharp21]

You could do a bunch of nights at Double Tree (has a resort fee and parking fee but may have EMH in Sept) or Homewood Suites Lake Buena Vista (no parking or resort fee, but no EMH)

and then maybe the last night or two on site just for the experience.

Aren't EMH being eliminated? If it's just the 30 minutes early entrance to each park like they said they are moving to instead, that really won't matter to us. That 30 minutes early entry option just feels like a mad rash to ride one ride before the park officially opens.

I will look into Homewood Suites. I like the no parking or resort fee part.

 

[jeffmw]

Sorry to be one to jump in with a technicality on this, but Disney has not built an actual Deluxe resort hotel since 2001 (Animal Kingdom Lodge). The only other resort hotels they've built in any category since then has been Pop in 2003, AoA in 2012 (both delayed/modified projects in the aftermath of 9/11), and Gran Destino Tower in 2019 (a moderate, but has the feel of a deluxe). But as far as resort hotel (non-DVC) construction, that's it.

Of course they have built/converted plenty of DVC rooms during that time - BCV 2002, SSR 2004, BLT 2009, VGF 2013, Poly Villas/Bungalows 2015, CCV 2017, Riv 2019. Several of those (BLT, Poly, CCV) took away Deluxe hotel room inventory. Riv took away some Moderate hotel room inventory.

Some view hotel rooms and villas as one in the same, which I understand - however I personally think of them as different lodging types/options.

On some level my take is that Disney has for much of the last 15-20ish years largely ignored offering anything new for resort hotel guests on all levels in favor of the instant-profit DVC model. At the same time the hotel room stock has generally been aging to the point where the quality comes into question, especially relative to modern hotel design trends. Fortunately Disney has been in renovation mode over the last few years, with major room renovations to the hotel inventory up and down the category scale.

Reflections was supposed to be part hotel / part DVC - which I was looking forward to since that would have been the first new deluxe hotel room stock added in over 20 years.

But other than that, with some exceptions Disney really hasn't seemed to have much of a desire to build all that much of anything non-DVC - and that's probably the way things will always be, generally speaking.

Sorry for the tangent there.

I'll answer your technicality with further evidence. First, while DVC sales are ultimately Disney's goal, I believe most of those rooms end up going to regular visitors. In fact, I typically stay in DVC rooms even though I'm not DVC. They're on par cost-wise and typically easier to find availability. When BC is booked, for example, you can usually find something in BCV.

So let's take DVC members out of the picture and turn the focus to the average cost of rooms they've built. Look at everything they've built over the past 20 years other than Pop Century: AKL, BRV, BCV, Saratoga, AKV, Bay Lake, AoA, Villas at GF, PVB, CCV, Riviera. First, let's call a spade a spade and not call AoA a "Value" resort when 60% of the rooms are $450+/night at the cheapest time of year. Outside of the AoA LM rooms, the cheapest room available at the cheapest time of year among that entire list is $429 for a Studio at Saratoga.

All of that put together is about 10,000 new rooms built since 2000 (about 1/3 of the total rooms now on property) and, of those, ~65% are $425+/night at the least expensive time of year! And of the ones that are cheaper, about 1/3 of those are AoA LM rooms, which may as well be in Tampa.

And, again, let's keep in mind all those prices I listed above are the most inexpensive rack rates Disney offers, which are only offered for a few weeks per year, so I'm giving Disney something of a break here. All in all, the average year-round price for the rooms they've built over the past 20 years is likely well above $600/night. Think about that.

I'd have to do the math, but given the DVC multi-bedroom suites it's likely that Disney has built more rooms over the past 2 decades that average >$1000/night on avg. throughout the year than those that are < $400 at their cheapest.

If that's not catering to the wealthy, I don't know what is.

 

[cjlong88]

I will look into Homewood Suites. I like the no parking or resort fee part.

I've stayed at the Hilton Garden Inn just north of the WDW property line and I-4, and we really liked it. Quiet, low price, and the rooms were clean and fresh. Free parking and a pool. Staff was great. It's as close you can get to WDW without being on the actual property itself. Only a couple minutes to Disney Springs. If you don't need a kitchenette or a living space, it's a great option.

 

[WorldOfPooh]

I've stayed at the Hilton Garden Inn just north of the WDW property line and I-4, and we really liked it. Quiet, low price, and the rooms were clean and fresh. Free parking and a pool. Staff was great. It's as close you can get to WDW without being on the actual property itself. Only a couple minutes to Disney Springs. If you don't need a kitchenette or a living space, it's a great option.

The Garden Inn and Homewood Suites Lake Buena Vista actually share the same swimming pool and basketball court and Disney shuttle (which comes 3 times in the morning and 3 times back at night)

There's also a LYNX bus stop right in front on the main road that will take you to Disney Springs and Disney Transportation Center every 30 minutes.

 

[Disneylover99]

I usually stay at Pop and find it still worth it for the "bubble", theming, and resort to park transportation. They're certainly eroding that feeling with taking away DME, charging for parking, etc., but it isn't gone yet. I don't want to leave the bubble and I don't want to drive on vacation (or cook or do laundry).

I have stayed at DS hotels in the past (Courtyard Marriott, Hilton), but they just don't have the same feel and the transportation was never as good.

The number one thing keeping us on site at Pop is the bus to MK. I’ve always found their buses quick and plentifully and the ease to jump on an AofA bus if one comes along is awesome!

It’s especially handy when travelling with teens. They can just hop on the bus to go back to the resort when they get too tired. and the parents want to stay in the MK. lol.

 

[hereforthechurros]

We just returned last week. I can honestly say the magic is completely gone and people have zero reason to stay on property. It was definitely my families last trip. My kids even said they would have a better time at a beach.

Not that I agree completely, but our son flat out told us he has no interest in going any more, any time soon. Which sucks because we have APs that are still good for 11 months.

 

[hereforthechurros]

I actually laughed when I read that post! I was just there for two weeks in December... it was just as magical as all the previous trips I’ve ever taken. I’m counting down the seconds till my next one!!

Well you also own DVC at three places so clearly the Disney koolaid was consumed quite a while ago and large investments made. Doesn't mean it's that way for everyone!

 

[KittyKitty]

I love staying in the bubble and using Disney transportation. If I want to go Value, Pop has great rooms. Mod, it's FQ or Riverside. Then if my bank balance is looking good, Boardwalk. I have so many choices. And I feel safe, safer than outside the bubble, as I usually travel by myself for a least a few of the days. I can see if you need space, it can get expensive on-site.