Why the single mom with kids argument?

[jimmymc]

It's a general comment that the lowest end Disney World trip you can take (staying off-site or in value hotels, buying discount tickets, eating cheaply) is less attainable than in the past. Value resort prices are high right now, and adding Genie+ to your tickets just to get the same experience that Fastpass gave you for no additional money makes it tougher to justify going if you were just barely able to go in the past.

 

[jimmymc]

We were looking at ticket prices for when we are going and Universal raised their price to where it is now more expensive than disneyworld tickets

That is a good point not a lot of people bring up, Universal 1 day tickets are more than Disney. The annual pass is less than half the price, which is where it makes sense if you can do 2 trips within 12 months.

 

[notatallmagic]

Single parent here - and one who traveled to Disney about every other year when the kiddos were little and money was pretty tight. We flew down on super discounted airfare or drove (we once got tickets for $9/person round trip!). We stayed at All Star Resorts, and packed breakfast and snacks and shared meals. We agreed to a budget and stuck to it and made great memories.

The problem with the new Disney IMO is that some of the things that they've taken away and now charge for are the things that make many families hesitant to travel to Disney. First and foremost for me would have been Magical Express. That was a life-saver with two littles in car seats. And the baggage delivery to our room? Heavenly. That alone is a new super hassle, even now that my kids are older. The old FastPass made it much easier to plan around kids schedule, and I don't ever remember waiting for resort buses ten years ago the way we've waited this last year.

We're taking a Disney break and going to SeaWorld parks and Universal in the next year. So far during the planning process, their Customer Service is far superior to Disney's...and we were Annual Passholders. Disney has some work to do.

 

[yensid's offspring]

While a single mom with 4 kids may be an extreme example, they're showing how out of touch and out of reach Disney is becoming. This was brought up in the context of that new ABD global parks trip that costs 109k a person, which for a family of 4 would be greater than the median home value in the US. The market for something like that is clearly the 1% and Disney overall is trending to accommodate those folks to increase per person spending. $800/night deluxe rooms and even $3-400/night value rooms, $5,000 for 2-day galactic starcruisers--these are not affordable for the average family. Everyone understands the basic principles of supply and demand, their argument is to at least offer something for the everyday family (i.e have a supply for that demand).

My family of 5 is firmly ensconced in the middle class. Both my wife and I work full time jobs. We are going to WDW for the second time in the past year in Sept. We are staying 10 days at AKL Kidani with 2 days in each park and a water park day. WDW is very expensive and has increased exponentially in the last decade but it is still by far not just for the elite. I would venture to say that 65%, or higher, of all that attend are middle class or moderate income families. I will have to admit that families that have incomes lower than middle class and those middle class families that over extend themselves or are not good savers, are priced out.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

We were looking at ticket prices for when we are going and Universal raised their price to where it is now more expensive than disneyworld tickets

They start the same. Both list $109+ tax for 1 park 1 day. Their dynamic pricing dates is where you'll see variability, at times Universal is more and at times Disney is and other times they are the same. If you actually look at the calendars you should see the different pricing.

 

[DLgal]

Serious question, is that a bad thing?

If they can capture that audience and live up to their standards (which is probably the biggest if), I don't see how it is a bad thing for them.

It's not a bad thing, inherently. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a company (any company) changing their target demographic and upping their game.

But Disney isn't holding up their end of providing a better experience, and they know it. Behind the scenes, at the management level, Genie+ is regarded as a MASSIVE FAILURE. The entire park experience is currenly unsatisfactory for a large number of people. The sheer number of surveys frantically being sent out to guests after their visits point directly to this reality. I am one of these survey recipients and the questions reflect that they KNOW things are not good. It feels like they are trying to put out a fire, but instead of using water, they are using gasoline with every new decision they make.

Disney has a history of hubris, and things are no different this time. They are eroding away what little of the brand loyalty they have left among consumers.

 

[MyTwoPrincesses]

I have a lot of problems with Disneyworld at the moment, but why is the podcast gang arguing that Disney should lower prices so that “single moms with 4 kids” should be able to afford a Disney vacation? Are they serious, or is that just a talking point? Crowds would be even more unbearable than they currently are. Economics 101 says Lower price = more demand. If I’m Chapek, I go back to paper fast passes, get rid of the app (genie, etc) and raise ticket prices by 30%.

I don't love the argument because it is sexist. It assumes that all single moms are financially strapped. I am a single mom of 3 and I have taken my kids on many Disney vacations - including to Deluxe resorts, on a Disney Cruise, a trip to Disneyland/California, international vacations to Mexico, Israel and the UK. My kids have gone on nicer vacations with me than their dad.

 

[DLgal]

I don't love the argument because it is sexist. It assumes that all single moms are financially strapped. I am a single mom of 3 and I have taken my kids on many Disney vacations - including to Deluxe resorts, on a Disney Cruise, a trip to Disneyland/California, international vacations to Mexico, Israel and the UK. My kids have gone on nicer vacations with me than their dad.

This is a good point. A "single mom with 4 kids" is no different than a single dad with 4 kids, or a 1 income family with one stay at home parent. Although, I guess there's a better tax break for married couples.

However, "single mom" has been used in the lexicon over and over again in our society as the poster child for "struggling family unit."

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I don't love the argument because it is sexist. It assumes that all single moms are financially strapped. I am a single mom of 3 and I have taken my kids on many Disney vacations - including to Deluxe resorts, on a Disney Cruise, a trip to Disneyland/California, international vacations to Mexico, Israel and the UK. My kids have gone on nicer vacations with me than their dad.

This is a good point. A "single mom with 4 kids" is no different than a single dad with 4 kids, or a 1 income family with one stay at home parent. Although, I guess there's a better tax break for married couples.

However, "single mom" has been used in the lexicon over and over again in our society as the poster child for "struggling family unit."

I agree with both of you but there's still a point to be had on it, surely we realize that there are women who are in positions where vacationing is NBD, on the other hand historically childcare, child rearing have been largely left to women (*sigh*) and there are far more single moms statistically speaking, like a lot more, although stats show single fathers are rising quite fast, they still are not representative of the bulk. Women also on the pay scale still earn less than men on a general level. I think while trite in usage the burden still seems to be largely on women hence why the moniker has stuck around no matter the fact that there are women in fact whom it's not representative of them.

I would agree on adjusting our lexicon to "single parent" as that accounts for whomever is the caregiver but it's not inaccurate to present it as largely single mothers being disadvantaged upon such that vacations such as these are more burdensome.

 

[fumanchu2488]

It's not a bad thing, inherently. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a company (any company) changing their target demographic and upping their game.

But Disney isn't holding up their end of providing a better experience, and they know it. Behind the scenes, at the management level, Genie+ is regarded as a MASSIVE FAILURE. The entire park experience is currenly unsatisfactory for a large number of people. The sheer number of surveys frantically being sent out to guests after their visits point directly to this reality. I am one of these survey recipients and the questions reflect that they KNOW things are not good. It feels like they are trying to put out a fire, but instead of using water, they are using gasoline with every new decision they make.

Disney has a history of hubris, and things are no different this time. They are eroding away what little of the brand loyalty they have left among consumers.

I agree. It is working for now, but to me it seems like they are trying to play both sides of the field and I am not sure it is sustainable in the long term. They probably need to go all in towards a more luxury experience or go all in towards a more value oriented experience.

 

[TikiTikiFan]

I don't love the argument because it is sexist. It assumes that all single moms are financially strapped. I am a single mom of 3 and I have taken my kids on many Disney vacations - including to Deluxe resorts, on a Disney Cruise, a trip to Disneyland/California, international vacations to Mexico, Israel and the UK. My kids have gone on nicer vacations with me than their dad.

Thank you for this, I agree. I'm a single mom and take my son to Disney sometimes two/three times a year. I hate the assumption that because I'm a single mom I must be poor. Just recently had that happen at a new doctors office for my son, assumed I was on Medicaid when handed me the forms. Had it happen another time meeting another mom from his school, came right out and was like 'oh are you on food stamps?' Happens more than it should. And believe me, I'm a bit of a diva so I'm not walking around wearing rags here.

But regardless of the example being used... Disney has priced out a certain element of ALL families. My mom would tell me stories about how in the 90s she'd just go grab our 5-day Disneyland tickets at the Disney store for about $50 a piece. We'd drive (from Colorado) and stay at the Little Boy Blue motel and pack our lunches. Those trips were affordable. Could you do that now? Sure, but now there's more to pay for in park that impacts your experience not to have. And tickets now don't pass the inflation test.

On the flip side, if you save money and cut out other expenses.... My son's first Disneyland trip was my first year out of grad school so I was still entry level in my career and I scrimped, saved, had a garage sale, etc. to make it happen. We stayed at a cheap hotel, didn't splurge on souvenirs.. All depends on how much you want it.

 

[Pickles516]

I think the point they are trying to make is that when you look at Universal, THEY are building new hotels with large rooms that can sleep large families AND pricing them below $200/night. It can be done. Universal is choosing to cater to ALL budgets, Disney has left budget minded travelers with $300/night Value resorts that can barely sleep 4. In this scenario, that single mom with 4 kids would need 2 rooms at a Disney resort, or pony up over $500/night for a "suite" at a Value resort.

Just a few years ago, Disney was significantly more affordable for that single mom with 4 kids.

I think this comes up a lot because that was Ryno's family structure and he laments that similar families are basically priced out of WDW at this point.

I mean, we all know they can slum it at a motel on International Drive, and just get day tickets, but even those have become prohibitively expensive to the point that it's not an option for a large swath of people who formerly could make it work.

It's just an observation.

Disney knows it can be done. Disney also knows a lot of their clientele want them to price out the middle class because they don’t want to have to rub shoulders with the unwashed masses on the people mover or whatever. It’s by design.

 

[DLgal]

Disney knows it can be done. Disney also knows a lot of their clientele want them to price out the middle class because they don’t want to have to rub shoulders with the unwashed masses on the people mover or whatever. It’s by design.

LOL. It's not working. Have you seen all the news stories about "altercations" in the parks?

The unwashed masses always find a way in...

 

[Pickles516]

LOL. It's not working. Have you seen all the news stories about "altercations" in the parks?

The unwashed masses always find a way in...

I don’t think it’s going to work in the short term, but I think it will in the long term. I just hope me and my gang of street urchins get to enjoy it first.

 

[OKW Lover]

The complaints Pete and company are bringing up is the optics of all of Disney’s moves. Announcing a 109k ABD trip during a time of high inflation, $5.00/gal gas, and fears of a recession is so out of touch.

I really don't understand this. A company can have a multi-prong advertising campaign. They can seek to market to all levels of wealth. They haven't stopped promoting themselves to those on either end of the spectrum. Its not an either/or proposition.

And Disney is undoubtedly scrambling to recoup the billions lost during the shutdowns, worldwide and then extended for some parks.

No, they are simply trying to become more profitable going forward. What's past is past. The point is to make the best decisions for the future.

 

[SorcererHeidi]

I will admit I did not read this thread, because I felt no need to comment, and had nothing to add, until now. I did watch the show this thread originated from. That being said -

Today I got an InstaCart delivery from a very nice young lady. She noticed I had a Scentsy wax melt Little Mermaid warmer going, and commented how beautiful it was. She said she originally started doing InstaCart as a way to take her 2 daughters (single Mom) to Disney World, as they all love it there. Now she can no longer afford to go, and does InstaCart, hoping to figure out somewhere else, much cheaper, and easier/less stressful to plan for, to enjoy with her daughters.

I found this extremely sad, and telling. As I've said before, it's experiences like these (totally unsolicited by me) that break my heart, and have made me lose most of my sense of wonder, admiration, or love of a company that used to be pretty much in every single facet of my life. I still do have a small spark of it in me - hence the (fairly new) Little Mermaid warmer. But it's almost extinguished.

And yes - I get the whole "a business is a business" and yadda yadda yadda, and I am a stockholder that they claim they're doing all this to make happy. And yet I'm not - at all. Andwhen I lose my sense of love and magic, and continue to hear stories like this from others who feel the same, it continues to make me feel more disenchanted, and sad. For myself, for that Mom, for her kids, and for all of us. It just does.

 

[DanielleC]

While a single mom with 4 kids may be an extreme example, they're showing how out of touch and out of reach Disney is becoming. This was brought up in the context of that new ABD global parks trip that costs 109k a person, which for a family of 4 would be greater than the median home value in the US. The market for something like that is clearly the 1% and Disney overall is trending to accommodate those folks to increase per person spending. $800/night deluxe rooms and even $3-400/night value rooms, $5,000 for 2-day galactic starcruisers--these are not affordable for the average family. Everyone understands the basic principles of supply and demand, their argument is to at least offer something for the everyday family (i.e have a supply for that demand).

Why does this trip give the impression that Disney is "out of touch" and only targeting the "1%"? They added a single trip to ABD. One trip. All the other ABD trips are still being offered. The parks are still running, well except Shanghai or Hong Kong, DCL is still sailing.

It's a trip for a market they haven't yet touched. When they did the first Disnyana convention back in 1991 or 1992 I asked a cast member if the event was going to be a continuing thing. She told me they were going to do them here (in FL) then in Anaheim and rotate them. Why? Because it was a market they weren't in yet, Disney related collectibles.

Yeah, Disney is expensive. It has always been expensive. They don't and never wanted a family of four to attend every year a couple of times a year. They have always wanted them to come every few years.

Everyone needs to stop complaining about the prices. You need to stop spending on Disney. That's the only way they are going to get the message.

 

[Lizgistix]

The unwashed masses always find a way in...

I find a way in several times a year. They once even let me on board the Dream!

 

[Lilsia]

I honestly don't know what Disney could possibly do other than to lower prices just for the act of lowering the price. It is obvious that they are not hurting for business and I don't think anybody, who owned a business, would not keep increasing prices if that is what the market demanded. We see it over and over with everything. I don't know why anybody would hold Disney to a different standard other than the fact that they are angry that they can't afford it anymore. I also don't like the whole single mom argument for a variety of reasons. All of us make choices in life. I love going to Walt Disney world and so I cut everything else extra out of my life. I don't buy purses, I shopped at Walmart for my clothes and that is only when I absolutely need something. I don't go to Starbucks, etc. I do everything that I can to save that extra money for my vacations. I also chose to have only two children because we wanted to be able to afford to do other things. Again that comes down to personal choices. I'm just as angry as everybody else about prices getting so high. But I can't say that I blame them.

 

[SeanWM48]

Everyone needs to stop complaining about the prices. You need to stop spending on Disney. That's the only way they are going to get the message.

my take on all this too. customers keep eating all this up and the diehard fans keep blaming the company.