Why the single mom with kids argument?

[DisFanDad]

I have a lot of problems with Disneyworld at the moment, but why is the podcast gang arguing that Disney should lower prices so that “single moms with 4 kids” should be able to afford a Disney vacation? Are they serious, or is that just a talking point? Crowds would be even more unbearable than they currently are. Economics 101 says Lower price = more demand. If I’m Chapek, I go back to paper fast passes, get rid of the app (genie, etc) and raise ticket prices by 30%.

This is only ONE possible solution - the other is to increase capacity, keep prices low (or, imagine, lower them) and just sell more with less margin. Lower price, increase capacity, meet the increased demand, increase profits. The choice to increase prices to lower demand and increase profits is one of multiple options they have - but importantly, its a CHOICE.

 

[keishashadow]

No people don't discount that, those don't mean you are able to make a Disney trip work. Child support is often derived off of the other's income, time spent with the kids and is designed to pay for basic necessities.

The several hundred bucks my mom got per kid (was just my sister and I) was for clothing, food, school and housing expenses and nothing was left to go to Disney that's for sure. Even my mother-in-law who got like $1k per month wouldn't have been able to (pretending she was a single mom)

And those were set in the mid-90s. For my mom renegotiating the amount meant going to court and well that costs money.

There will be single parents who can afford it, by in large it's a burden to do so and using child support as an example to fund a vacation and one to a place like Disney is probably not the best one.

That’s my era. Sorry but, I stand by my comment

Surely, hope you didn’t misinterpret me as suggesting to frivously spend money due on essentials for a vacation.

I, nor none of my friends in the same boat at the time ever separated money we personally earned and what was deposited in our bank account by the court. Bills & whatever non vacation savings goals were always paid out of the same pot. Whatever was left over then went into the vacation fund. We even had a swear jar!

Obviously, some people find themselves unwilling or unable to meet their obligations. They aren’t in this particular equation. I’m talking those who can reach for it with some effort, as in saving up via cutting back on other wants.

It’s certainly more difficult to do Disney on a dime now. The easy helps are CS vs TS, one souvenir per child, etc lots of sites out there, including this one with good suggestions

FYI I had to fight to collect any court ordered child support. Also, worked two side hustles in order to provide for any extras until I found my soulmate who treated my monsters as his own.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

That’s my era. Sorry but, I stand by my comment

Surely, hope you didn’t misinterpret me as suggesting to grievously spend money due on essentials for a vacation.

I, nor none of my friends in the same boat at the time ever separated money we personally earned and what was deposited in our bank account by the court. Bills & whatever non vacation savings goals were always paid out of the same pot. Whatever was left over then went into the vacation fund. We even had a swear jar!

Obviously, some people find themselves unwilling or unable to meet their obligations. They aren’t in this particular equation. I’m talking those who can reach for it with some effort, as in saving up via cutting back on other wants.

It’s certainly more difficult to do Disney on a dime now. The easy helps are CS bs TS, one souvenir per child, etc lots of sites out there, including this one with good suggestions

FYI I had to fight to collect any court ordered child support. Also, worked two side hustles in order to provide for any extras until I found my soulmate who treated my monsters as his own.

I'm saying when you say that people are forgetting about single mothers with careers and child support people aren't forgetting that, however that is not a good example for the large conversation about affordability to go to Disney for a single mother. Child support isn't likely going to get you there especially when we're talking about habitual trips because it's being eaten up by other essentials (which was my point).

You'd probably be better off describing it as if there are single parents with discretionary income who can make Disney worth it of which we do know that is the case for some but for many single parents that discretionary income is harder and harder to come by making a place like Disney less and less feasible.

 

[cheryl.UK]

I'm with The DIS folks on this one. I'm a very long time member of these boards and hop around multiple forums. What i've seen over the last 3 years is a steady decline in the number of people on the budget boards discussing how they pull the money together from yard sales to coupons to just cutting back to be able to pay their way to a WDW holiday. Why? I suspect it's because these strategies no longer work because Disney pricing has outstripped any attempt to pay for it through simple budgeting. Many of the people I chatted with were the single mom with 4 kids, or were, what we in the UK, would call working class people with limited surplus income. We have been lucky through the years and have visited many times but, although I'm in the very same job, this year's trip is going to be tight for us. General inflation and Disney price hikes have taken a vacation from a relatively easy spend to a real stretch of our budget.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

What i've seen over the last 3 years is a steady decline in the number of people on the budget boards discussing how they pull the money together from yard sales to coupons to just cutting back to be able to pay their way to a WDW holiday. Why? I suspect it's because these strategies no longer work because Disney pricing has outstripped any attempt to pay for it through simple budgeting.

That's a good point. I remember searching for our 2017 trip in 2015 and there was so many blogs, so many pinterest pins about ways to save for a Disney trip. I don't see that nearly as much now. I think some of it too was Target and other retailers cutting down on swapping gift cards for Disney ones. That is at least one thing but the other larger reason is the pricing just doesn't allow for as much tricks and tips and ways to scrimp together a trip.

 

[TikiTikiFan]

Family size also plays a big part in this too. I can talk all day about how I was able to scrimp and save to take my son to Disneyland right after I graduated college and was entry level in my career... but then again it was only two of us. We stayed at the Clarion (big budget hotel) and did things on the cheap and it was pretty affordable. Flew Frontier, etc. Again... if you have a family of six, well that's going to be different.

And I before anyone throws tomatoes at me that was one of the reasons I always just wanted one kiddo. To be able to do more with him (among other reasons and life things that got in the way of having more regardless.) Pros and cons!

But I will also say, I know folks that are about on par with my income level that are super envious of how often I go to Disney and they could make it happen but they're bad at saving money or chose to spend their disposable income in other areas... which is fine! I prioritize my extra money towards saving it towards trips rather than ordering Door Dash a few times a week or going to the brewery all the time, etc. And they're the first ones to start saying 'No one can afford Disney!' Well, you could... if you saved your money. Is it worth it? That's up to you. It is for me, so I do.

I'm with The DIS folks on this one. I'm a very long time member of these boards and hop around multiple forums. What i've seen over the last 3 years is a steady decline in the number of people on the budget boards discussing how they pull the money together from yard sales to coupons to just cutting back to be able to pay their way to a WDW holiday. Why? I suspect it's because these strategies no longer work because Disney pricing has outstripped any attempt to pay for it through simple budgeting. Many of the people I chatted with were the single mom with 4 kids, or were, what we in the UK, would call working class people with limited surplus income. We have been lucky through the years and have visited many times but, although I'm in the very same job, this year's trip is going to be tight for us. General inflation and Disney price hikes have taken a vacation from a relatively easy spend to a real stretch of our budget.

Also, totally agree with this. A garage sale can't pay for a Disney trip the way it could in the past! Even those 5% Target Redcard savings only do so much.

 

[fumanchu2488]

I hate the fact that a lot of people equate 'income' to 'expense'. I know a lot of people who go to WDW and prioritize that spending who do not make a ton of money. It is a personal choice how people spend their money.

And I don't think Disney cares how much money people make. They care how much money people will spend on a vacation. Who cares if a family makes $70k/year and are going into credit card debt to pay Disney or if they make $500k/year and pay all cash. If Disney gets paid, it doesn't matter to them.

Lastly, like a lot of people have said, Disney is definitely getting more expensive, but so is everything else. Try and price out a Beaches vacation or Atlantis Bahamas vacation or Carribean vacation. They really aren't that far away from a Disney trip at this point and some are more expensive.

 

[clarker99]

I hate the fact that a lot of people equate 'income' to 'expense'. I know a lot of people who go to WDW and prioritize that spending who do not make a ton of money. It is a personal choice how people spend their money.

And I don't think Disney cares how much money people make. They care how much money people will spend on a vacation. Who cares if a family makes $70k/year and are going into credit card debt to pay Disney or if they make $500k/year and pay all cash. If Disney gets paid, it doesn't matter to them.

Lastly, like a lot of people have said, Disney is definitely getting more expensive, but so is everything else. Try and price out a Beaches vacation or Atlantis Bahamas vacation or Carribean vacation. They really aren't that far away from a Disney trip at this point and some are more expensive.

The major difference is the park ticket costs. If a family of 4 wants to sit on the beach for a week you can save $2500-$3000 just bc you don't need park tix.

I look at things like the parades, Fireworks and shows and realize that if they were offered in my hometown that it would cost near $100 person for that quality per show. Heck, I had paid $175/ticket Foo Fighters tickets before they sadly had to cancel their tour. When you put into perspective the 12hours of possible entertainment the theme parks give you compared to a 2hr concert it begins to put into perspective what things cost.

 

[disneyworldsk]

I'm with The DIS folks on this one. I'm a very long time member of these boards and hop around multiple forums. What i've seen over the last 3 years is a steady decline in the number of people on the budget boards discussing how they pull the money together from yard sales to coupons to just cutting back to be able to pay their way to a WDW holiday. Why? I suspect it's because these strategies no longer work because Disney pricing has outstripped any attempt to pay for it through simple budgeting. Many of the people I chatted with were the single mom with 4 kids, or were, what we in the UK, would call working class people with limited surplus income. We have been lucky through the years and have visited many times but, although I'm in the very same job, this year's trip is going to be tight for us. General inflation and Disney price hikes have taken a vacation from a relatively easy spend to a real stretch of our budget.

I know this is getting off topic as this was a conversation about single parents with kids affording disney etc. But regarding your post, do you think it may be because the millenials are now the larger generation and their interests and family configurations have changed? many don't have kids. many find other places to travel outside of disney. many young adults today are afforded disney by their gen x and baby boomer parents who pay for 'family trips'. I hear many millenials (and recently even on the podcast one said this) they have dvc. But they don't. Their parents do. And these kids are now young adults and even some are married and say "we have dvc" and "we went on vacation" but their parents paid with dvc points or paid their annual pass, etc. A young adult I overheard at a restaurant say to her friends (she was about 30), I have a beach house on the jersey shore. Nope. It was her parents who did.
I hate to say back in my day, but once we were of a certain young age we didn't get paid vacations from our parents, we moved out of our family of origin homes and we referred to things our parents owned as "theirs" not "ours" anymore.
So regarding budgeting I think this larger generation that is in the parks don't necessarily need the budgeting anymore when they have their needs already met, many of them, or choose other places to vacation.
just a thought, what do you guys think?

 

[clarker99]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1540692118779219968

So, the trip that started this thread is sold out. Time to go back to being angry about (insert your disney topic here).

 

[Jrb1979]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1540692118779219968

So, the trip that started this thread is sold out. Time to go back to being angry about (insert your disney topic here).

Again it wasn't about the stupid trip or Disney being too expensive. It was more the direction Disney is heading in. The main point of this whole thread wasn't so much making it affordable for the single mom. It was that lately all the perks and this trip is catering to the more affluent crowd. Nobody is saying to lower prices but it would be nice to see more perks for your average guest.

 

[starry_solo]

So, who is going on the trip and where will the blog post be?

If I were a billionaire, or at least a 999 millionaire, I might be tempted to spend the money on that trip. But I kind of think I'd want to do the National Geographic ones too...

 

[TikiTikiFan]

This is very true. Part of the reason we became hooked on Disney was the ease -- baggage delivery to the room, magical express. The best way to travel by myself with three small children. Of course, 10 years ago, there was no Uber or Lyft. But just the idea of dragging all of the luggage by myself through the airport is really unpleasant. Now, I stick the kids with their own luggage.

This is a huge part of it for me! It's so easy to travel to Disney as a single mom. It feels safe and it's easy.

I know this is getting off topic as this was a conversation about single parents with kids affording disney etc. But regarding your post, do you think it may be because the millenials are now the larger generation and their interests and family configurations have changed? many don't have kids. many find other places to travel outside of disney. many young adults today are afforded disney by their gen x and baby boomer parents who pay for 'family trips'. I hear many millenials (and recently even on the podcast one said this) they have dvc. But they don't. Their parents do. And these kids are now young adults and even some are married and say "we have dvc" and "we went on vacation" but their parents paid with dvc points or paid their annual pass, etc. A young adult I overheard at a restaurant say to her friends (she was about 30), I have a beach house on the jersey shore. Nope. It was her parents who did.
I hate to say back in my day, but once we were of a certain young age we didn't get paid vacations from our parents, we moved out of our family of origin homes and we referred to things our parents owned as "theirs" not "ours" anymore.
So regarding budgeting I think this larger generation that is in the parks don't necessarily need the budgeting anymore when they have their needs already met, many of them, or choose other places to vacation.
just a thought, what do you guys think?

As a millennial (I'm 35) I'll try to speak for us. My parents are both deceased but even before my mom passed, she didn't have income to help me so I never had a leg up and everything I have now I paid for myself and pay for all my own vacations. BUT I do know many people my age that have similar situations that you speak of or are in situations that their privilege of having gen x/boomer parents with money has really helped them get to where they are. Whether that's helping with a down payment on a house, taking them along on vacations, paying their phone bills, etc etc.

The term for that is 'generational wealth' and yeah, I'd say that's a factor for a certain demographic of folks for sure. If I was fortunate enough to have had parents that could have paid a down payment for me to get into a house, I could be in a better situation to take more expensive vacations. But I wouldn't say that's a majority millennials, likely more white middle/upper class ones. I do know many that fit your description though so yes, it happens! I know a couple my age that bought their house from her mom so they got it at a serious below market value, didn't need a down payment and so basically got their foot in the door for next to nothing. They go to WDW every year and have two kids. All those factors do add up, sure.

 

[Skip Coffee for Rope Drop]

While a single mom with 4 kids may be an extreme example, they're showing how out of touch and out of reach Disney is becoming. This was brought up in the context of that new ABD global parks trip that costs 109k a person, which for a family of 4 would be greater than the median home value in the US. The market for something like that is clearly the 1% and Disney overall is trending to accommodate those folks to increase per person spending. $800/night deluxe rooms and even $3-400/night value rooms, $5,000 for 2-day galactic starcruisers--these are not affordable for the average family. Everyone understands the basic principles of supply and demand, their argument is to at least offer something for the everyday family (i.e have a supply for that demand).

 

[Queen2PrincessG]

I know this is getting off topic as this was a conversation about single parents with kids affording disney etc. But regarding your post, do you think it may be because the millenials are now the larger generation and their interests and family configurations have changed? many don't have kids. many find other places to travel outside of disney. many young adults today are afforded disney by their gen x and baby boomer parents who pay for 'family trips'. I hear many millenials (and recently even on the podcast one said this) they have dvc. But they don't. Their parents do. And these kids are now young adults and even some are married and say "we have dvc" and "we went on vacation" but their parents paid with dvc points or paid their annual pass, etc. A young adult I overheard at a restaurant say to her friends (she was about 30), I have a beach house on the jersey shore. Nope. It was her parents who did.
I hate to say back in my day, but once we were of a certain young age we didn't get paid vacations from our parents, we moved out of our family of origin homes and we referred to things our parents owned as "theirs" not "ours" anymore.
So regarding budgeting I think this larger generation that is in the parks don't necessarily need the budgeting anymore when they have their needs already met, many of them, or choose other places to vacation.
just a thought, what do you guys think?

Generational wealth indeed!

When you were their age, rent wasn’t $2000+, for a one bedroom, that you need a roommate to afford because your job doesn’t pay you enough to live solo. The current price for 4 days at Disney, for a family of four is not that much more than a trip to the UK.

This 20 something group isn’t as enamoured as we were with Disney. It’s more about the food and fashion. The “things” which to me don’t equal the park magic. I think that’s largely due to a lack of imagination on the “screen” for Disney and not translating something thats accessible to the park. The new rides lean heavy on movie franchises, and screens, which again is short sighted.

Lastly, why would a single parent of 4 bring 4 kids to wait in line for 6 rides max? Genie+ has made that part of park visits, imo, completely fiscally unreachable for many. Unless you’re at a deluxe you can’t stay late and ride. It’s basically become a caste system. 10 years ago we all had the same possibility to ride, in a time efficient manner. Not anymore. Disney won’t tank but I think once these post pandemic make up trips are over, many people won’t be retuning.

 

[jimmymc]

I know this is getting off topic as this was a conversation about single parents with kids affording disney etc. But regarding your post, do you think it may be because the millenials are now the larger generation and their interests and family configurations have changed? many don't have kids. many find other places to travel outside of disney. many young adults today are afforded disney by their gen x and baby boomer parents who pay for 'family trips'. I hear many millenials (and recently even on the podcast one said this) they have dvc. But they don't. Their parents do. And these kids are now young adults and even some are married and say "we have dvc" and "we went on vacation" but their parents paid with dvc points or paid their annual pass, etc. A young adult I overheard at a restaurant say to her friends (she was about 30), I have a beach house on the jersey shore. Nope. It was her parents who did.
I hate to say back in my day, but once we were of a certain young age we didn't get paid vacations from our parents, we moved out of our family of origin homes and we referred to things our parents owned as "theirs" not "ours" anymore.
So regarding budgeting I think this larger generation that is in the parks don't necessarily need the budgeting anymore when they have their needs already met, many of them, or choose other places to vacation.
just a thought, what do you guys think?

You are right about millenials visiting Disney without kids, but wrong about their parents paying for it. I'm a millennial who bought DVC on my own, and Sean and Fiasco both bought it on their own. I also go to Disney way more often than my parents or anyone else in my family, any my friends who don't own DVC pay their own way whenever they visit the parks. And they can afford it because most of them don't have kids. Two tickets and pairs of meals are a lot less expensive than a family of 4 or 5. Kids are so expensive in general, and when you have two incomes but no children, an extra $500 added on to your Disney trip isn't as big of a deal.

I'm sure plenty of young adults do still travel with older parents, but more of them simply prioritize travel over having children or other big expenses at home.

 

[jimmymc]

I'm with The DIS folks on this one. I'm a very long time member of these boards and hop around multiple forums. What i've seen over the last 3 years is a steady decline in the number of people on the budget boards discussing how they pull the money together from yard sales to coupons to just cutting back to be able to pay their way to a WDW holiday. Why? I suspect it's because these strategies no longer work because Disney pricing has outstripped any attempt to pay for it through simple budgeting. Many of the people I chatted with were the single mom with 4 kids, or were, what we in the UK, would call working class people with limited surplus income. We have been lucky through the years and have visited many times but, although I'm in the very same job, this year's trip is going to be tight for us. General inflation and Disney price hikes have taken a vacation from a relatively easy spend to a real stretch of our budget.

I think there's no denying that people who used to visit regularly are being priced out. Couponing and target cards will only go so far when ticket prices increase twice as fast as inflation.

 

[Nursemanit]

The 1% don't go to WDW - Maybe in the 70s they went once, but let's face it - We go to AK and stay at RR, They go to Africa for a safari, and go to the actual Riveria. We buy DVC, they buy vacation real estate ( and rent it out for a profit when they are not using it )

Disney has always been expensive, and the majority of people who go, use a mixture of savings and credit, they can't afford it but go anyway. That is the market Disney wants. Disney is a pretend luxury vacation, with pretend "deluxe" hotels. It is entertainment without effort for the middle and lower middle class. So if you enjoy it you will pay the bill as people have for the past 50 years.

 

[jimmymc]

The 1% don't go to WDW - Maybe in the 70s they went once, but let's face it - We go to AK and stay at RR, They go to Africa for a safari, and go to the actual Riveria. We buy DVC, they buy vacation real estate ( and rent it out for a profit when they are not using it )

Disney has always been expensive, and the majority of people who go, use a mixture of savings and credit, they can't afford it but go anyway. That is the market Disney wants. Disney is a pretend luxury vacation, with pretend "deluxe" hotels. It is entertainment without effort for the middle and lower middle class. So if you enjoy it you will pay the bill as people have for the past 50 years.

They do, they just take VIP tours and stay at the Four Seasons behind Ft. Wilderness, or something like a suite or Bungalow.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

Again it wasn't about the stupid trip or Disney being too expensive. It was more the direction Disney is heading in. The main point of this whole thread wasn't so much making it affordable for the single mom. It was that lately all the perks and this trip is catering to the more affluent crowd. Nobody is saying to lower prices but it would be nice to see more perks for your average guest.

I've said this in other threads, but perks are typically there to entice people to purchase. Disney seems to currently have too much demand, and not enough supply, so there is no good reason to offer perks when you can't keep up with the demand in the first place