The Running Thread -- 2022

It depends on what's most important to you. My experience has been that Garmin is a fantastic training tracking watch with ok smart watch features. The Apple Watch is a fantastic smart watch with ok training tracking features.

Personally, there's no way I would give up my Garmin in favor of an Apple Watch to track my runs. Garmin is just too good at it with everything integrated nicely into one package where the Apple Watch is too 3rd-party app based for my taste. Want to run Galloway intervals?

For me, though, the true sweet spot is "why not both?" I have a Garmin on my main wrist to track the run. I have an Apple Watch with cellular on the other wrist for music/audiobooks and text/call capability for safety. I don't have to carry a bulky phone. It's the best of both worlds.
So your last point is I think where I'm at. I'm not super happy with the watch/runkeeper for tracking my runs. So I'm considering getting a garmin to track runs, and continue to use my apple watch as my everyday watch.
 
For me, though, the true sweet spot is "why not both?" I have a Garmin on my main wrist to track the run. I have an Apple Watch with cellular on the other wrist for music/audiobooks and text/call capability for safety.

I just wanted to mention that recent Garmins have come further along on this - they can do music/podcasts via Spotify and I think Deezer, and you can load any DRM-free music/audiobooks as well. Sadly, only the Forerunner 945 LTE does texting for safety, and it's limited in scope. Garmin hasn't said if they'll be expanding this feature in the future, but given we've now seen new generation Fenix, Epix, and Forerunner, it appears the answer is "no."
 
I have an apple watch that I use with runkeeper to track my runs. I've started thinking that I should get a garmin watch to track my runs instead. For those who had/have both, do you think it's worth the upgrade?
I guess it depends on what info you are looking for, are you sure its not runkeeper that doesn't work for you? I use an Apple Watch with the activity app that it comes with. I used runkeeper when I first started tracking my runs and found I didn’t like the way it presented my info. The activity app can be configured to display what you want, and if you are a Strava user, will import all your data for you. Last Xmas I upgraded to the 7 and that seems to have taken care of the battery issue, at least for now. With cellular it’s great, I run with my watch and sometimes AirPods, nothing else to worry about. Full disclosure, if I want to run intervals, I do need a third party app but that is rare and I have found intervals pro to be simple and effective running in the background.
 
Garmin vs Apple. Garmin has come a long way in their smart watch capabilities, especially with watches like the Venu. Take a good look at both ecosystems because that what matters as much as the hardware. I don't care about having LTE on my watch and don't get notifications on it. I also don't listen to music when I run so I don't care about that though most Garmin's now offer music or a music variant.

I'm a heavy wallet user and the number of times I use either Google Wallet or Garmin Pay vs credit card is probably about 5 to 1 at this point. The cards I care about are offered in Garmin Pay but they are more limited than the two major wallets so if that is important to you check your specific card before you decide. I never take my phone or anything on a run, unless it is a run commute, so having my watch to hop into a shop and buy a water along a long route is nice.

I want my daily stats (steps, sleep analysis, stress, etc) and a good experience with activity tracking and Garmin is the best at that, especially after their purchase of FirstBeat. They are probably a little behind on the HRV stuff, I'm not totally sure, but based on the current Beta build out for the Fenix 7/Epix 2 and a few other watches with the newer sensors it looks like they are about to make a leap forward there.

Had a mile race last Friday evening, the Liberty Mile. Ran 5:29, a few seconds slower than last year. Like GreatLakes above, anything under 5:30 I'd be happy with but hoping for in the 5:20-5:25 range. I was right on it at the half-way timer but faded a bit down the end.

Even though in the moment, it can be a little rough (usually at one point thinking, why the hell did I sign up for this?), it's still an enjoyable event. It's a nice change up having a race in the evening and fun watching all the various heats, especially the pro ones.

I'd like to do the Liberty Mile one year. I've done the Great Race twice and Pittsburgh Half Marathon once.

When I'm prepared for the hard effort I like the short hard effort even with the pain. When I am not prepared it hurts.
 
QOTD: how do you overcome a crisis of confidence in your running ability?

I’ve been having a series of bad/shortened/skipped runs this summer, and I’m starting to worry I can’t do this anymore. I have 70 days until my next race and I need to get out of this funk.
Agree with what others said For sure. For me, every time I start to ramp up long runs for a new training cycle I have this fear that I won’t be able to do the distance. It’s crazy and I know it isn’t rational, but it happens every year. Every week through most of my first real training cycle. I also have these thoughts some during the summer because my pace gets so slow due to the heat. But then, we get our first cold snap and I get to run in temps that are more comfortable and boom! Pace is back and I feel great. Notice I said get to run, not have to run. That little mindset shift was something I was told a couple of years ago and have adopted. It’s a little reminder that running is a choice and a privilege and something that I appreciate my body for being able to do.
Had a pretty rough long run today. I actually stopped a few times around mile 11.5. T+D were fine. But mentally it was so tough and I felt exhausted and even sat for a while. My furbaby last his battle with cancer yesterday. He was with me since he was 8 weeks old. Lots of people were walking their dogs on the trail this morning. Give your guys extra hugs.
So sorry for your loss.
 
I just wanted to mention that recent Garmins have come further along on this - they can do music/podcasts via Spotify and I think Deezer, and you can load any DRM-free music/audiobooks as well. Sadly, only the Forerunner 945 LTE does texting for safety, and it's limited in scope. Garmin hasn't said if they'll be expanding this feature in the future, but given we've now seen new generation Fenix, Epix, and Forerunner, it appears the answer is "no."
The inability to respond is an Apple restriction, at least as it relates to iPhones, not a Garmin failing. I read a recent DC Rainmaker post recently explaining this for the new 955. Apple doesn’t let third-party developers respond to iMessage texts.
 
The inability to respond is an Apple restriction, at least as it relates to iPhones, not a Garmin failing. I read a recent DC Rainmaker post recently explaining this for the new 955. Apple doesn’t let third-party developers respond to iMessage texts.

Oh yes, that one I knew - DW has a Garmin and an iPhone and hates this. What I meant was texting from the watch without a phone connected. Garmin doesn't have this feature at all, except for very limited safety-related usage on the FR945LTE. This doesn't bother me because I don't use smart features on my watch and don't run with my phone anyway, but it's the most common thing I see for Garmin vs. Apple Watch.
 
I guess it depends on what info you are looking for, are you sure its not runkeeper that doesn't work for you? I use an Apple Watch with the activity app that it comes with. I used runkeeper when I first started tracking my runs and found I didn’t like the way it presented my info. The activity app can be configured to display what you want, and if you are a Strava user, will import all your data for you. Last Xmas I upgraded to the 7 and that seems to have taken care of the battery issue, at least for now. With cellular it’s great, I run with my watch and sometimes AirPods, nothing else to worry about. Full disclosure, if I want to run intervals, I do need a third party app but that is rare and I have found intervals pro to be simple and effective running in the background.
I’ve never tried using the activity app. I’ve been using Runkeeper since before I had a watch, and always just stuck with it. I’ll give it a try for tonight’s run and see if that’ll save me some money on a new Garmin
 
I have an apple watch that I use with runkeeper to track my runs. I've started thinking that I should get a garmin watch to track my runs instead. For those who had/have both, do you think it's worth the upgrade?
porque no los dos?

I use my Garmin for running and I wear it as an all the time watch at work in the summer because camp is so much walking that I was curious. Plus our wifi/service is so bad that my phone barely works so the apple features are less important.

My Apple Watch is my nice watch for the school year since it looks so clean/professional and it lets me get messages while in meetings.
 
I'm not struggling with motivation these days, but tiredness. I feel like I've been running on tired legs for the past two weeks. Maybe it's the combination of heat and maration ramp-up, but darn.

Is it normal that I'm feeling so tired? Am I overdoing it?

(For those that don't follow my training journal, I run 5 times a week, 35-40k/20-25mi, and my McMillan training plan is making me ramp that way up to 70k in the first week of Sept.)
 
I'm not struggling with motivation these days, but tiredness. I feel like I've been running on tired legs for the past two weeks. Maybe it's the combination of heat and maration ramp-up, but darn.

Is it normal that I'm feeling so tired? Am I overdoing it?

(For those that don't follow my training journal, I run 5 times a week, 35-40k/20-25mi, and my McMillan training plan is making me ramp that way up to 70k in the first week of Sept.)
That’s entirely possible. Are you getting enough rest? Are your easy runs very easy? One way to keep track of your fitness and fatigue is to use the Elevate browser extension. It links to Strava and provides analysis of your fitness trend, fatigue level, and all kinds of extra data too. Definitely worth using if you’re not using Training Peaks.

https://thomaschampagne.github.io/elevate/#/landing
 
I'm not struggling with motivation these days, but tiredness. I feel like I've been running on tired legs for the past two weeks. Maybe it's the combination of heat and maration ramp-up, but darn.

Is it normal that I'm feeling so tired? Am I overdoing it?

(For those that don't follow my training journal, I run 5 times a week, 35-40k/20-25mi, and my McMillan training plan is making me ramp that way up to 70k in the first week of Sept.)

That’s entirely possible. Are you getting enough rest? Are your easy runs very easy? One way to keep track of your fitness and fatigue is to use the Elevate browser extension. It links to Strava and provides analysis of your fitness trend, fatigue level, and all kinds of extra data too. Definitely worth using if you’re not using Training Peaks.

https://thomaschampagne.github.io/elevate/#/landing

I'll second @FFigawi's recommendation of Elevate (and adequate sleep/easy runs easy). The Fitness/Freshness tool using Elevate or Strava Premium has a watered down version as well, is a good tool to determine training load balance and whether you're venturing into the overload zone. It's not the end all be all, but another good tool. If you go to my OP on my training journal (link) I have a series of posts under "Training Load" that discusses the use of this tool.

For me, the canary in the coal mine is a fade during training runs. I've talked about it before, but almost none of the training we do as endurance runners should push us so much that we can't complete a workout as written. The rule of "one more" comes to mind. You should finish every workout feeling like you could have done "one more". Whether that's one more interval or one more mile. If you don't realistically think you could have done "one more" than you probably did too much. But in addition to that, if you try and maintain a workout, and outside of elevation changes or temp changes just simply can't maintain pace and see a fade, then it's a red flag. A sign the workout was too much. It's ok to have these happen on rare occasion. If you see two red flag workouts in the span of 7-10 days, then it's a black flag. You need to immediately pivot your training because you're venturing into an area of overload training. And once you get into overload training it's very hard to dig yourself back out of it.

Despite not seeing fade workouts, I have been to a point of overloaded training once before. My symptoms were a sudden onset of dizziness during normal life (so not when I was running) and "jelly legs" during workouts. With the "jelly legs" it was like a mind/body disconnection. I felt like I was telling my legs to run but they were just moving weird. Like they weren't listening to me. Or like I was a newly born calf and didn't know how to walk/run yet. It was a really odd sensation.

With those things being said, what should training feel like? Imagine yourself in your home. Your fridge normally doesn't make any noise. Now imagine if it started to make a really low level hum. You can barely hear it, but it's noticeable. Hang around that fridge enough, and you might start to no longer hear that hum anymore even though it's still ongoing. Now imagine a friend comes over. They haven't acclimated to the fridge hum, so they're definitely going to notice it and point it out to you. And then you're going to be like, oh yea, now I can hear it again too. Additionally, imagine if the hum suddenly disappeared. Even though you weren't noticing it anymore, you'll notice when it stops. That hum is your training fatigue. When it starts, it's going to be more noticeable. Over time, it's going to fade into the background and become a "new normal". But when you taper, and remove the hum is when you're going to realize, hey this is what it's suppose to feel like when I'm not in the midst of training.

So deciding whether the hum is something you need to have a mechanic look into depends on your level of alarm to the hum. The signs the hum may be too much is Elevate saying you're in overload training, or seeing fades on workouts, or the inability to realistically answer the question of "one more". As time passes and if these things aren't issues, then the hum will become normalized. Only once the taper kicks in will the hum disappear and you re-remember what it's suppose to feel like in the absence of the hum.
 
Are your easy runs very easy?

No my easy runs aren't very easy. They don't feel easy enough. McMillan uses pace as a base for his training plans (I'm following a Level 2 Downhill plan right now), and my HR creeps up into the grey zone almost for every run. So I'm always wish-washing between "Should I stay in zone 2"? or "Should I follow the planned pace for my run?"

To answer your question Billy, I haven't felt a fade in training runs. I have been paying attention to that, since I read your recent posts. The only thing was on my long run on Sunday, my HR suddenly spiked at the end:
1658930115926.png
My pace seemed constant enough, except when I was doing my walk intervals.
 
@azrivest how much sleep do you generally get a night? I do your training load and i sleep on average 8 hours a night. I know a lot of people who do not get that much sleep. The only people who don't think i am strange for sleeping that much are my running friends. Plus your easy runs have to be easy. I know I suck at that so all I can say is try.
 
@azrivest how much sleep do you generally get a night? I do your training load and i sleep on average 8 hours a night. I know a lot of people who do not get that much sleep. The only people who don't think i am strange for sleeping that much are my running friends. Plus your easy runs have to be easy. I know I suck at that so all I can say is try.

On a normal night, I go to bed around 8:30-9:00 and wake up at 5:15 to go running. So 8 hours on average I guess?
 

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