Inaccurate Wait Times

[Sparkly]

You're complaining because you got on a ride quicker then the posted wait time?!

 

[dizneegirl]

Has anyone actually seen a red card in the past few years….? genuinely curious!

We haven't seen one since the shutdown.

 

[Babe the Blue Ox]

Disney could start shutting the lines earlier in the evening so the last riders get off the attraction exactly when the park closes.

By shutting down the lines earlier, Disney could use more accurate wait times and not be accused of inflating them to sell Genie+ at the end of the evening.

This would make the park visitors happy, knowing they have perfectly accurate wait times.

And the park staff would be able to clear out the park in a timely manner without having to run an attraction an hour past closing time.

Disney may lose some sales from guests who like to buy Gene+ late in the evening to beat the lines during the last hour or so of park open, but Disney may actually save even more money by paying less staff overtime to keep the rides open late for those people who get in a long line a minute before park close and expect to ride.

Disney doesn’t inflate the wait times late at night to sell more Genie +, they do it to discourage late riders and send them towards the gift shops. They’ve been doing this long before G+ or any version of FastPass was in place.

And those “long” lines at the end of the night - they’re nowhere near as long as Disney wants you to believe. The hour wait you referenced is more likely to be 10-15 minutes.

When Flight of Passage first opened, they did try to close the line early to prepare for after hours parties. This only lasted as couple of weeks as they quickly realized that the few guests still in line did not impact the experience of the partygoers.

 

[Aimeedyan]

It's always been that way. That's why when people say they "saved" 60 minutes in a line by doing Genie+, I know it's probably not accurate.

I actually beat the Genie+ folks on Soarin over the weekend. There was a large group standing outside the entrance watching the clock to scan in. Posted wait time was 15. I walked right into a preshow line to be loaded on the next show and they were finally coming down the walkway when I was walking into the ride.

This happened on TSMM a few weeks ago, too. Large crowd waiting for their time, we walked literally right onto a ride vehicle. Posted wait was 40 minutes! Absolutely not a soul in line.

Both of those times were in the last 2 hours of the day, but it happens during the day too. I can usually eyeball the line and know the approximate length but the ones with closed queues are harder.

 

[stinkpickle]

When using the Lines app, do you just look at the "expected wait" or do you mean that you reference wait times entered by other users that day?

I use the expected waits, which I think are updated from the submitted times...maybe

 

[Babe the Blue Ox]

It's always been that way. That's why when people say they "saved" 60 minutes in a line by doing Genie+, I know it's probably not accurate.

I actually beat the Genie+ folks on Soarin over the weekend. There was a large group standing outside the entrance watching the clock to scan in. Posted wait time was 15. I walked right into a preshow line to be loaded on the next show and they were finally coming down the walkway when I was walking into the ride.

This happened on TSMM a few weeks ago, too. Large crowd waiting for their time, we walked literally right onto a ride vehicle. Posted wait was 40 minutes! Absolutely not a soul in line.

Both of those times were in the last 2 hours of the day, but it happens during the day too. I can usually eyeball the line and know the approximate length but the ones with closed queues are harder.

That’s what we used to call “Wasting a FastPass” when the standby wait was shorter than the FP line. It seems that can be applied to G+ as well.

 

[Mrs.AMC]

Disney could start shutting the lines earlier in the evening so the last riders get off the attraction exactly when the park closes.

By shutting down the lines earlier, Disney could use more accurate wait times and not be accused of inflating them to sell Genie+ at the end of the evening.

This would make the park visitors happy, knowing they have perfectly accurate wait times.

And the park staff would be able to clear out the park in a timely manner without having to run an attraction an hour past closing time.

Disney may lose some sales from guests who like to buy Gene+ late in the evening to beat the lines during the last hour or so of park open, but Disney may actually save even more money by paying less staff overtime to keep the rides open late for those people who get in a long line a minute before park close and expect to ride.

It's not really possible to have wait times that closely accurate. Not without staffing the ride entrance and someone counting every single guest that enters and then calculating how long it will take for that guest to complete their ride. That would take more staff, not less. It's why they don't shut down rides in advance, they don't pay staff overtime anyway. They are scheduled that way.

 

[Mrs.AMC]

I use the expected waits, which I think are updated from the submitted times...maybe

Len hangs out here at times and may see this and pop in with some insight on where their projected wait times come from.
I think it they may even have the info on their site somewhere but not sure.

 

[Mrs.AMC]

You're complaining because you got on a ride quicker then the posted wait time?!

I know, right? It is truly baffling and just goes to show you that no matter what, Disney can't please everyone. People will find something to complain about
I guess in this case they could do better by inflating them less?
No matter what, you've got a segment that is going to think the worse, period.
This time it was automatically assumed they did it to sell more Genie+ when in fact it's been that way for decades. Fact is it's normal SOP for whatever multitude of reason. And I suspect it's just that, a multitude of reasons.

 

[Disneylover99]

I know, right? It is truly baffling and just goes to show you that no matter what, Disney can't please everyone. People will find something to complain about
I guess in this case they could do better by inflating them less?
No matter what, you've got a segment that is going to think the worse, period.
This time it was automatically assumed they did it to sell more Genie+ when in fact it's been that way for decades. Fact is it's normal SOP for whatever multitude of reason. And I suspect it's just that, a multitude of reasons.

I think if the wait times were more accurate, and wait times were listed as much shorter, more people would decide to ride, then the wait times would just go up, so I prefer wait times listed higher.

 

[Parkhopstacker]

They don’t need the red cards anymore. They use all the magic bands in line for that now. They have a sensor at the beginning and then another before boarding the ride. Easy to calculate. Those RFID sensors and Bluetooth sensors are all over the place. If you see a red card in a line nowadays it’s only used for calibrating/validating the magic band data.

 

[Mrs.AMC]

They don’t need the red cards anymore. They use all the magic bands in line for that now. They have a sensor at the beginning and then another before boarding the ride. Easy to calculate. Those RFID sensors and Bluetooth sensors are all over the place. If you see a red card in a line nowadays it’s only used for calibrating/validating the magic band data.

Except it only reads SOME MB (those with batteries still functioning). Besides, not everyone uses a MB. I still see a whole lot of old fashioned tickets in use.

 

[DCLCruiseFan09]

Disney could start shutting the lines earlier in the evening so the last riders get off the attraction exactly when the park closes.

By shutting down the lines earlier, Disney could use more accurate wait times and not be accused of inflating them to sell Genie+ at the end of the evening.

This would make the park visitors happy, knowing they have perfectly accurate wait times.

And the park staff would be able to clear out the park in a timely manner without having to run an attraction an hour past closing time.

Disney may lose some sales from guests who like to buy Gene+ late in the evening to beat the lines during the last hour or so of park open, but Disney may actually save even more money by paying less staff overtime to keep the rides open late for those people who get in a long line a minute before park close and expect to ride.

As a former attractions CM, we used to have people arguing with us at 8:03 if the park closed at 8 that they should be allowed to ride again.

Closing the lines early was always a dream but never a reality with the exception of working at Safaris. The old 4:15/4:30/4:45 line closures during Christmas due to sundown were a NIGHTMARE.

 

[Parkhopstacker]

Except it only reads SOME MB (those with batteries still functioning). Besides, not everyone uses a MB. I still see a whole lot of old fashioned tickets in use.

You don’t need everyone to wear them. You only need like 5% or even less. Get a decent set of data points and some rough data smoothing and that’s all Disney cares about. They don’t care about doing crazy AI and machine learning and analytics to get super accurate wait times. Because the business and ops folks make the call on inflation, not the data analytics people. Get a decent dataset with rough smoothing with some sprinkling of park reservation data in there and then let the ops people inflate from there.

 

[Mrs.AMC]

You don’t need everyone to wear them. You only need like 5% or even less. Get a decent set of data points and some rough data smoothing and that’s all Disney cares about. They don’t care about doing crazy AI and machine learning and analytics to get super accurate wait times. Because the business and ops folks make the call on inflation, not the data analytics people. Get a decent dataset with rough smoothing with some sprinkling of park reservation data in there and then let the ops people inflate from there.

Yeah, I get that. Which just leads to it being quite inaccurate because 5% is not all that good, not when you may have 30 of which are using a NonRFID ticket walk in at once. If they ever want more accurate wait times they need way more than data from 5% of the guests to get it. Since they don't, it is good enough.

Which was also my point. Someone posted above that Disney should allow only enough people in line at the end of the night so they could shut down the ride smack dab at closing on the dot and I was saying they can't do that because they can't read everyone that enters a line to nail down exactly how long waits will be. People come in too haphazard to ever do something like that.

 

[wdw&sonny]

I like the inflated wait times near closing...especially since "we" know it- but most people do not. It's yet another reason why I stalk these board for insider info.

 

[slickpoetry]

Kind of a weird question here, but since we all acknowledge the posted wait times are often innacurate (regardless of our pet theories as to why that is)....

Has anyone ever seen an online resource that could list ways to visually assess the line? For example, "If Haunted Mansion line extends past the green tent, you will wait XX minutes"

Perhaps that's not feasible, or crazy....




...but I'd still read it

 

[Babe the Blue Ox]

Kind of a weird question here, but since we all acknowledge the posted wait times are often innacurate (regardless of our pet theories as to why that is)....

Has anyone ever seen an online resource that could list ways to visually assess the line? For example, "If Haunted Mansion line extends past the green tent, you will wait XX minutes"

Perhaps that's not feasible, or crazy....




...but I'd still read it

That won’t work either. Along with the inflated wait times, Disney also uses a technique known as “Line Stacking” to intentionally make the lines appear longer than they are.

A good example was when Toy Story Mania was the hottest attraction in any park and could have actual waits of 2+ hours during the morning and afternoon.

In the evening, they would start closing the switchbacks inside the building to where the line would spill out into the courtyard. Put 90 minutes up on the clock and now you have a stacked line and the posted wait time looks legit.

In reality, the line would go directly to the 3D glasses bin then on to the ride and it was easy to get in 4 or even sometimes 5 rides during the last hour of operation.

 

[slickpoetry]

That won’t work either. Along with the inflated wait times, Disney also uses a technique known as “Line Stacking” to intentionally make the lines appear longer than they are.

A good example was when Toy Story Mania was the hottest attraction in any park and could have actual waits of 2+ hours during the morning and afternoon.

In the evening, they would start closing the switchbacks inside the building to where the line would spill out into the courtyard. Put 90 minutes up on the clock and now you have a stacked line and the posted wait time looks legit.

In reality, the line would go directly to the 3D glasses bin then on to the ride and it was easy to get in 4 or even sometimes 5 rides during the last hour of operation.

Thanks, that makes sense and I should have thought about the modifiable switchbacks in the first place lol

 

[Babe the Blue Ox]

Thanks, that makes sense and I should have thought about the modifiable switchbacks in the first place lol

It’s always been related to increasing guest spending before they leave the park.

Guests are more likely to shop before the stated closing time than after, even if the shops are scheduled to remain open for at least an extra hour.

So they use things like the inflated wait times and the line stacking to discourage late rides. This funnels guests toward the exits where those shops are all lit up and waiting.

In reality, there’s still plenty of time for a couple of trips through your favorite attraction as well as ample shopping time later, all within the employee’s scheduled work hours.