College Football 2023-Year of The Dawgs?

[mgarbowski]

No they didn't. The Committee told FSU that TYPES of games matter.

That might fly if the same people who make that argument then didn't turn around and use a Bowl game with zero effect on anything where half of the kids who were cheated sat out as a post-hoc justification for cheating those same kids.
It's pathetic that the same people who argue that Alabama's in-season loss to Texas doesn't count now want to claim yesterday's exhibition game is proof of something.
Games matter or they don't, and everything else is corrupt.

 

[sam_gordon]

That might fly if the same people who make that argument then didn't turn around and use a Bowl game with zero effect on anything where half of the kids who were cheated sat out as a post-hoc justification for cheating those same kids.
It's pathetic that the same people who argue that Alabama's in-season loss to Texas doesn't count now want to claim yesterday's exhibition game is proof of something.
Games matter or they don't, and everything else is corrupt.

Well, *I* made the argument, and *I* even said the game was not an indicator of whether FSU should be in the playoffs.

So, who are you referring to when you say "the same people"?

 

[GreatLakes]

I agree with the first sentence, but not the second. The team on the field tonight wasn't the same team that would have been playing in the playoffs. We will never know, if the selection committee was right.

That team on the field was also playing a GA team with nothing real to play for and they got smoked. Even full strength they aren't making up a 60 point difference. The committee made the right call. If GA wins that game by 14 maybe but 60? That shows FSU wasn't one of the top 4 teams in the country, they just won a weak conference. I hate the SEC but a one loss SEC champion had a much harder road to the championship than any undefeated ACC team. That conference is a dumpster fire.

 

[declansdad]

That team on the field was also playing a GA team with nothing real to play for and they got smoked. Even full strength they aren't making up a 60 point difference. The committee made the right call. If GA wins that game by 14 maybe but 60? That shows FSU wasn't one of the top 4 teams in the country, they just won a weak conference. I hate the SEC but a one loss SEC champion had a much harder road to the championship than any undefeated ACC team. That conference is a dumpster fire.

Without both teams playing with their original rosters, nothing has been proven about the committee's call.

 

[GAN]

Without both teams playing with their original rosters, nothing has been proven about the committee's call.

What’s proven is that teams with better strength of schedules get preference. Also proves that the ACC is Number 5 in the Power 5…..

 

[WEDWDW]

Without both teams playing with their original rosters, nothing has been proven about the committee's call.

And therefore the brilliance of the FSU opt outs.

FSU can forever claim that had they been at full strength they WOULD have defeated Georgia.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

BS. The majority of the players (if not all of them) on the sideline ARE getting money. They get scholarships that pay for their tuition, books, housing, and meals. They get free clothing. They get free tutoring.

Actually, yes, the school will back them if they get hurt. You have an example of a time when an athlete got hurt participating in their sport and the school DIDN'T cover the medical costs?

I'll agree schools will dump kids off the team when necessary. Or do you think they shouldn't be able to cut players no matter what?

There are only two transfer portal windows for football... 30 days after Selection Sunday and April 15-30. Personally, I think the transfer portal should open on Jan. 2, but it's still far from schools being able to "replace the kids any time they want to". Although I'm sure if someone already at the school wants to join the team in October, they'd be allowed (by rules). But I'm pretty sure that's not what you're trying to say.

Now, why should the kids HAVE to play a "meaningless cash grab" if they don't want to? They shouldn't. But I've always felt that if you commit to something, you stick with it. We always told our kids we'll sign them up for anything they want to do, but they need to finish the commitment (generally a season in sports). I think it's a bad look for a player to opt out of a bowl game. I guess it's ok in your mind that a player quits after a teams, what, third loss of the season? Games after that mean nothing, I mean they're not going to be in the running for a natty, so what's the point?

A ship for a degree in great guts for great jocks that will end up worthless is what they're getting. Meanwhile, the school is pocketing millions. They're getting paid.... A scholarship. That wins the disingenuous argument of the year award. Student athlete is an oxymoron. Nothing they've done enhances the student portion of it. They irony of you saying B.S. to me on that one.

And no. As usual when an athlete gets injured, the school will back them only minimally. Medical bills are only the beginning. Those are paid by insurance by the way. The hurt players are usually cast aside if they can't play any more. That's when they find out they're 2-3 years into a worthless course of study and won't even graduate in that on time. There's no compensation for permanent loss of career, unless supplemental insurance policies are bought. And even those only go so far. Opting out has been happening more and more and is going to continue to happen. Get used to it. The kids are wising up. More power to them. Caleb Williams is going to make more the second he signs his contract than any insurance policy would give him. Why should he risk all that in the Holiday Bowl? And no. The holier than thou sanctimony isn't going to work any more. He doesn't give a rat's hindquarters whether you or I think it's a bad look or what you or I think he committed to. Everyone's just mad at the kids because their precious bowl games suck. But that isn't the players fault. They didn't create the system. The fans got what they wanted. A fake playoff. The consequence is that this year's Orange bowl didn't matter any more than did the Camelia Bowl or the Myrtle Beach Bowl played in Conway. And that consequence was easily predictable the moment the bowl coalition happened. Supposedly, we were going to get a playoff and a legit champ AND keep the bowl system. It achieved neither.

 

[sam_gordon]

A ship for a degree in great guts for great jocks that will end up worthless is what they're getting. Meanwhile, the school is pocketing millions. They're getting paid.... A scholarship. That wins the disingenuous argument of the year award. Student athlete is an oxymoron. Nothing they've done enhances the student portion of it. They irony of you saying B.S. to me on that one.

So where is that money going? Assuming $30K for a scholarship * 85 scholarships is $2.5 million. Every year. Now add in the coach's salaries (probably at least a couple of million for the 10 or so coaches), plus the equipment, plus the facilities. And I'm pretty sure some of the money the collect is going to the "non-revenue" sports also (scholarships, coaches, equipment, facilities, etc). And some of the money goes back to the college.

And no. As usual when an athlete gets injured, the school will back them only minimally. Medical bills are only the beginning. Those are paid by insurance by the way. The hurt players are usually cast aside if they can't play any more. That's when they find out they're 2-3 years into a worthless course of study and won't even graduate in that on time.

And the bolded is the school's fault? DS is a college athlete (DIII, so no athletic money). It was hammered into us that when looking at schools, pick one for the SCHOOL, not for the athletic program. Because you don't know what will happen health wise, coach wise, or just interest wise.

There's no compensation for permanent loss of career, unless supplemental insurance policies are bought. And even those only go so far.

What about when they were playing in HS? Or MS, or anywhere? You can get a career ending injury at any point while playing, or for that matter, while walking down the street.

Opting out has been happening more and more and is going to continue to happen. Get used to it. The kids are wising up. More power to them. Caleb Williams is going to make more the second he signs his contract than any insurance policy would give him. Why should he risk all that in the Holiday Bowl?

So what you're saying is unless you have a chance of playing for a national championship, it's okay to "opt out" of any game?

And no. The holier than thou sanctimony isn't going to work any more. He doesn't give a rat's hindquarters whether you or I think it's a bad look or what you or I think he committed to.

He doesn't know me from Adam. That doesn't mean I can't express my opinion of his choice.

Everyone's just mad at the kids because their precious bowl games suck. But that isn't the players fault. They didn't create the system.

Never said I was mad at the kids. I said I lost respect for them.

The fans got what they wanted. A fake playoff.

It's still better than it used to be when there was NO playoff. Or do you think the old system of voting for the top team was better?

The consequence is that this year's Orange bowl didn't matter any more than did the Camelia Bowl or the Myrtle Beach Bowl played in Conway. And that consequence was easily predictable the moment the bowl coalition happened. Supposedly, we were going to get a playoff and a legit champ AND keep the bowl system. It achieved neither.

And how much did the Orange bowl matter in 2010? #4 Stanford rolled over #13 VaTech 40-12.

 

[sam_gordon]

And therefore the brilliance of the FSU opt outs.

FSU can forever claim that had they been at full strength they WOULD have defeated Georgia.

Yes they can. But what does that get you?

 

[GreatLakes]

And therefore the brilliance of the FSU opt outs.

FSU can forever claim that had they been at full strength they WOULD have defeated Georgia.

No one that knows anything about football thinks they are pulling our a 60 point swing with a few starters. Keep in mind their best player wouldn't have been fit to play even if they were the top 4.

Without both teams playing with their original rosters, nothing has been proven about the committee's call.

I'm confident with all of their opted out players they are not turning around 60 points. 24 maybe, not 60. They were found out even with the missing players.

 

[TwoMisfits]

No one that knows anything about football thinks they are pulling our a 60 point swing with a few starters. Keep in mind their best player wouldn't have been fit to play even if they were the top 4.



I'm confident with all of their opted out players they are not turning around 60 points. 24 maybe, not 60. They were found out even with the missing players.

It was 29 scholarship players, which is the entire 1st team of players on offense and defense...and then half the 2nd team...and this did NOT count the players not playing for injury (like the 1st 2 QBs)...

But yeah, a "few" starters, like all of them...and their backups...

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

And therefore the brilliance of the FSU opt outs.

FSU can forever claim that had they been at full strength they WOULD have defeated Georgia.

So where is that money going? Assuming $30K for a scholarship * 85 scholarships is $2.5 million. Every year. Now add in the coach's salaries (probably at least a couple of million for the 10 or so coaches), plus the equipment, plus the facilities. And I'm pretty sure some of the money the collect is going to the "non-revenue" sports also (scholarships, coaches, equipment, facilities, etc). And some of the money goes back to the college.

And the bolded is the school's fault? DS is a college athlete (DIII, so no athletic money). It was hammered into us that when looking at schools, pick one for the SCHOOL, not for the athletic program. Because you don't know what will happen health wise, coach wise, or just interest wise.

What about when they were playing in HS? Or MS, or anywhere? You can get a career ending injury at any point while playing, or for that matter, while walking down the street.

So what you're saying is unless you have a chance of playing for a national championship, it's okay to "opt out" of any game?

He doesn't know me from Adam. That doesn't mean I can't express my opinion of his choice.

Never said I was mad at the kids. I said I lost respect for them.

It's still better than it used to be when there was NO playoff. Or do you think the old system of voting for the top team was better?

And how much did the Orange bowl matter in 2010? #4 Stanford rolled over #13 VaTech 40-12.

LOL we have to exploit football players to fund the tiddlywinks team.... Yet another disingenuous excuse.

The schools aren't really paying 30k for scholarships. It's all funny money. They aren't hiring a single professor they wouldn't otherwise hire. They didn't build a single classroom they otherwise wouldn't have. Speaking of academics, did those matter when they added Conference title games? No. Did they matter when they decided to add two or three more games to the season? No. Did academics matter with conference shuffling and extra travel? No. The only thing that mattered was the money. The "student athlete" wasn't even a consideration. It was all about the money. The players didn't create this system. The players didn't create the situation. The Schools did. And again, the bowls being meaningless is a direct consequence of what the fans wanted.

If you think D3 is equivalent to Big 5 football, I've a bridge to sell you.

Three bucks and your respect will get em bus fare.

2010 was after the bowl coalition and later the BCS had an effect. That's an argument for my side, not yours.

Yes you can express your opinion of their choices as misguided as that opinion may be. And I can express my opinion of your holier than thou opinion.

Nobody is saying that it's ok to opt out as soon as there is no chance at a national championship. Nobody. But it certainly is ok to opt out of a meaningless bowl game to prepare for the draft if they want. It's all too easy to be self righteous about it. You're not owed a thing. The whole be true to my school thing is done. Schools weren't true to their players. Don't demand loyalty when you don't give it.

BTW this is what the state of CFB prior to the Bowl coalition would have got us.

Rose. (Pac10 vs Big10) Washington Vs Michigan. Wooohoooo what a bowl game.
Sugar Alabama vs (at large) Likely Ohio St.
Cotton Texas (SWC) vs (At Large) Likely Georgia
Orange. FSU vs Oklahoma St. (Big 8)

As opposed to
Orange FSU vs Georgia
Rose Michigan vs Alabama
Fiesta Oregon vs Liberty..... EEEEGADS. now and Liberty has 6.
Peach Ole Miss vs Penn St.
Sugar Washington vs Texas.

I think I like that top one better. I know they had to take liberty to get around combination in restraint of trade issues but Dang.... NOOOO. And then you feed them to Oregon? The absolute last team a team like liberty would want to play. I didn't watch. Betcha it was 45-7 or something.

 

[TwoMisfits]

LOL we have to exploit football players to fund the tiddlywinks team.... Yet another disingenuous excuse.

The schools aren't really paying 30k for scholarships. It's all funny money. They aren't hiring a single professor they wouldn't otherwise hire. They didn't build a single classroom they otherwise wouldn't have. Speaking of academics, did those matter when they added Conference title games? No. Did they matter when they decided to add two or three more games to the season? No. Did academics matter with conference shuffling and extra travel? No. The only thing that mattered was the money. The "student athlete" wasn't even a consideration. It was all about the money. The players didn't create this system. The players didn't create the situation. The Schools did. And again, the bowls being meaningless is a direct consequence of what the fans wanted.

If you think D3 is equivalent to Big 5 football, I've a bridge to sell you.

Three bucks and your respect will get em bus fare.

2010 was after the bowl coalition and later the BCS had an effect. That's an argument for my side, not yours.

Yes you can express your opinion of their choices as misguided as that opinion may be. And I can express my opinion of your holier than thou opinion.

Nobody is saying that it's ok to opt out as soon as there is no chance at a national championship. Nobody. But it certainly is ok to opt out of a meaningless bowl game to prepare for the draft if they want. It's all too easy to be self righteous about it. You're not owed a thing. The whole be true to my school thing is done. Schools weren't true to their players. Don't demand loyalty when you don't give it.

BTW this is what the state of CFB prior to the Bowl coalition would have got us.

Rose. (Pac10 vs Big10) Washington Vs Michigan. Wooohoooo what a bowl game.
Sugar Alabama vs (at large) Likely Ohio St.
Cotton Texas (SWC) vs (At Large) Likely Georgia
Orange. FSU vs Oklahoma St. (Big 8)

As opposed to
Orange FSU vs Georgia
Rose Michigan vs Alabama
Fiesta Oregon vs Liberty..... EEEEGADS. now and Liberty has 6.
Peach Ole Miss vs Penn St.
Sugar Washington vs Texas.

I think I like that top one better. I know they had to take liberty to get around combination in restraint of trade issues but Dang.... NOOOO. And then you feed them to Oregon? The absolute last team a team like liberty would want to play. I didn't watch. Betcha it was 45-7 or something.

Close - 45-6. I didn't watch either, but did ESPN-fu...

In fact, I don't watch any of the meaningless bowls anymore...I watched the playoffs last year, but I admit, the whole transfer portal and NIL stuff has now made even that mostly meaningless for me. Not sure I'll watch, although I assume the big 4 did not have any players enter the portal or opt out...

 

[bama_ed]

I would say exactly that. Although, I think FSU's situation was more sticking it to the NCAA & ESPN than abandoning their teammates. That doesn't excuse the number of opt-outs. I think that was a juvenile reaction on their part. Kudos to Georgia for showing up & caring about winning, regardless of the situation.

FSU rebuilt the team when Norvel took over with a lot of transfer players who were there for a year or two. These guys don't have enough time to buy into the culture.

UGA basically takes in mostly high school players and develops them with only a few supplemental transfer players. They develop in the culture and are part of it.

Bottom line was FSU was staffed with mercenaries who were loyal to themselves. UGA was staffed with players loyal to each other. More or less.

What I wouldn't say is the game proves FSU didn't deserve to be in the playoffs. That's nothing more than a convenient attempt at justifying Alabama being chosen instead of them, simply because the committee wasn't willing to exclude the SEC.

By any objective measure, FSU didn't belong in the CFP.

"They went undefeated so they deserve it". That's the emotional response. The system had four spots for teams including five Power Conference. At least one conference champ was ALWAYS going to be left out. So emotions don't cut it.

"They went undefeated and can only play the games in front of them on the schedule." Yep, they played a weak schedule, barely beat teams, and didn't really dominate all season long. And they played like Iowa heading into the playoffs.

Again, you overlook the BCS calculation run in parallel that had Bama 3rd, FSU 4th, and TX 5th. Everyone points to head-to-head (Bama-TX) but fails to explain how to factor in TX losing to Oklahoma. Oooops.

And as far as the CFP being willing to exclude an SEC team or not, UGA dropping from 1st to 6th with a 3-pt loss in the SEC Champ was a pretty steep fall as history shows. Thus one could easily justify UGA getting in in some way (and then you can argue TX-Bama-FSU).

Bama Ed

 

[bama_ed]

And therefore the brilliance of the FSU opt outs.

FSU can forever claim that had they been at full strength they WOULD have defeated Georgia.

That makes no sense. If that's the case, you're giving participation trophies to everybody.

Injuries happen. It's affected Bama in the past. Top qb's or recievers get hurt. It's next man up. That's how the game is played.

 

[sam_gordon]

LOL we have to exploit football players to fund the tiddlywinks team.... Yet another disingenuous excuse.

I disagree they're exploited, number one. They CHOOSE to play for the schools.

The schools aren't really paying 30k for scholarships. It's all funny money. They aren't hiring a single professor they wouldn't otherwise hire. They didn't build a single classroom they otherwise wouldn't have. Speaking of academics, did those matter when they added Conference title games? No. Did they matter when they decided to add two or three more games to the season? No. Did academics matter with conference shuffling and extra travel? No. The only thing that mattered was the money. The "student athlete" wasn't even a consideration. It was all about the money. The players didn't create this system. The players didn't create the situation. The Schools did. And again, the bowls being meaningless is a direct consequence of what the fans wanted.

You're right. The players did not create the system. But they willingly decided to participate in the system. And I agree, most bowls are meaningless, but they always have been. But, what was Wisconsin playing for against Northwestern on November 11 "mean"? It did nothing to help either team advance to the conference championship game. And some of the "future" NFL players might have gotten hurt. So they should have been able to opt out of playing, right?

If you think D3 is equivalent to Big 5 football, I've a bridge to sell you.

And if that's what you got from my statement, I suggest reading for meaning instead of reading to respond.

Three bucks and your respect will get em bus fare.

I believe you're agreeing with me. That's good.

2010 was after the bowl coalition and later the BCS had an effect. That's an argument for my side, not yours.

Yes you can express your opinion of their choices as misguided as that opinion may be. And I can express my opinion of your holier than thou opinion.

See, when you start using insults, you've lost.

Nobody is saying that it's ok to opt out as soon as there is no chance at a national championship. Nobody. But it certainly is ok to opt out of a meaningless bowl game to prepare for the draft if they want. It's all too easy to be self righteous about it. You're not owed a thing. The whole be true to my school thing is done. Schools weren't true to their players. Don't demand loyalty when you don't give it.

OK, so what "meaning" was there when Oregon State played Stanfard? When LA Tech played UTEP? That's my point. MANY games (other than bowl games) have really no meaning other than bragging rights.

BTW this is what the state of CFB prior to the Bowl coalition would have got us.

Rose. (Pac10 vs Big10) Washington Vs Michigan. Wooohoooo what a bowl game.
Sugar Alabama vs (at large) Likely Ohio St.
Cotton Texas (SWC) vs (At Large) Likely Georgia
Orange. FSU vs Oklahoma St. (Big 8)

So let's say that's what we had, how do you determine the National Champion? Votes? But no, votes don't work, right?

I think I like that top one better. I know they had to take liberty to get around combination in restraint of trade issues but Dang.... NOOOO. And then you feed them to Oregon? The absolute last team a team like liberty would want to play. I didn't watch. Betcha it was 45-7 or something.

Didn't you say earlier that the results during the season matter? Are you saying Liberty didn't deserve a bowl? They were undefeated.

It's an imperfect system. When they go to 12 teams next year some team (and their fans) will feel they got cheated. The basketball tournament, with 68 teams always leaves teams feeling they got cheated.

 

[MillauFr]

What’s proven is that teams with better strength of schedules get preference. Also proves that the ACC is Number 5 in the Power 5…..

After watching the Big 10 get smoked today isn't there really only the Power 1 conference? Maybe Oregon and Washington will liven up the Big 10 next year and teams will stop trying to run up the middle for 3 yards all game long.

 

[WEDWDW]

Although the score is tied,First Quarter goes to Michigan.

Bama in for a long game if they don't improve against the run.

 

[Brian Noble]

I'm a college professor. I believe deeply in the value of a college education.

And even I think it is criminal that the costs of student aid for the entire athletic department (not the football players, but every scholarship athlete in every sport) at my school is less than 15% of the department's revenue.

Pay those boys. NIL is nice, but that's nibbling around the edges.

 

[WEDWDW]

I think Michigan should be concerned that they only have a 3 point lead after the poor play by Alabama.

It feels like they should be up by 2-3 Touchdowns.

Alabama gets the ball first in the second half -look for lots of screens, Quarterback Draws,toss sweeps,etc.