Will a Rental Crackdown Reset DVC Resale Prices?

[Nabas]

I’ve always been curious as to why you can change all the guests on the reservation online except the lead guest - why does DVC require that change to be via phone call, maybe it’s because of the language about when approval is not needed v. when approval may be needed .

I asked them about it the last time I called.

It's for the reason we're discussing - commercial enterprises renting out reserved rooms. I'm not exactly sure how this solves anything. If you're changing the lead name online or via phone, it seems to me that Disney should be able to track this.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

I'm not sure how walking degrades the value, but I know it's a very important topic to some DVC owners. Its impact is quite small overall. I don't think it's nearly as prevalent as you would think reading about it here. The widespread, intentional renting of points is very impactful, though. I hope they follow through and try to control that part better.

If there was no commercial renting I wouldn’t really care about walking. However the combination of walking to grab all the most desirable dates by a few mega renters to then turn around and spec rent is definitely aggravating.

 

[@dvcdudes]

Tanked? It means as a personal owner your points would be in more demand on the one off rental you give.

I agree - I like the flexibility of personal renting or the odd commercial renting. My point around tanking referred to if in some instance we wouldn’t be able to rent points at all - which would be a shame and most likely not a move DVC would take.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

I don’t think we will see a major change in anything, until a rash of renter show up and have no rooms

right now, that is the only way I see anything will actually change…

maybe Disney has sent cease and desist letter to the “commercial” renters will all seem to hate, but until renters start call rental stores demanding refunds, and cost for a ruined trip…

I don’t think anything will change

 

[Bearval]

I agree - I like the flexibility of personal renting or the odd commercial renting. My point around tanking referred to if in some instance we wouldn’t be able to rent points at all - which would be a shame and most likely not a move DVC would take.

I don't think DVD took into account back in 1992 that with development of the internet that there would be so many commercial sites to rent out unused points. Their idea of owner's renting out points would have been to friends and family which in turn could lead to more DVC memberships being sold. I would bet they never thought it would turn into a direct competition for guests to book their rooms.

 

[Brian Noble]

A simple “captcha” would also go a long way towards thwarting any bots.

Turns out Mechanical Turk solves that problem very cheaply.
https://elie.net/publication/how-good-are-humans-at-solving-captchas-a-large-scale-evaluation/

 

[eandt]

I don't think DVD took into account back in 1992 that with development of the internet that there would be so many commercial sites to rent out unused points. Their idea of owner's renting out points would have been to friends and family which in turn could lead to more DVC memberships being sold. I would bet they never thought it would turn into a direct competition for guests to book their rooms.

I rented from a total stranger (I found her here) twice before we bought in …. I am not really understanding the concern with owners renting points that would otherwise go unused whether it be through their own efforts or via a broker … are the points of concern owned by a corporation or private individuals .. if the former, I thought that was against the regs if the latter then who cares what they do with their points …

 

[CarolMN]

Just stop the bots.

As others have posted, there is technology available to do that, technology that would result in only a minor inconvenience to Members.

 

[Nabas]

I rented from a total stranger (I found her here) twice before we bought in …. I am not really understanding the concern with owners renting points that would otherwise go unused whether it be through their own efforts or via a broker … are the points of concern owned by a corporation or private individuals .. if the former, I thought that was against the regs if the latter then who cares what they do with their points …

The contract members sign when they purchase DVC expressly forbids commercial renting of points.

The example given by DVC is if you rent out more than 20 reservations per year, although Disney reserves the right to define what constitutes a commercial enterprise.

It’s one thing for me to rent my excess points. It’s significantly different for an enterprise to do this for hundreds of simultaneous reservations.

One of the big concerns here is not simply renting points. It’s grabbing hundreds of what are viewed as the most desirable reservations and then selling them as “confirmed reservations” without a specific buyer already lined up.

It’s also concerning when a bot is used to grab these reservations. At 8 AM each day, DVC members scramble to book the reservations they want, similar to dining reservations. But if someone is using a bot, they are going to be able to grab the most desirable reservations faster than any human can. Imagine if you wanted a reservation at Cinderella’s Royal Table but could never get it because an automated system was grabbing them all and then selling those reservations.

DVC is primarily intended for members as well as their families and friends. What appears to be happening ruins DVC for DVC members and appears to be a violation of the terms of use.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

I rented from a total stranger (I found her here) twice before we bought in …. I am not really understanding the concern with owners renting points that would otherwise go unused whether it be through their own efforts or via a broker … are the points of concern owned by a corporation or private individuals .. if the former, I thought that was against the regs if the latter then who cares what they do with their points …

I don’t think Disney has an issue with owners renting out unused point..
‘I think the concern is entities owning several thousand points, with no intention to ever use them.._
competing directly against Disney, at an advertised 65 percent discount….

I think this has as much to do with protect members as it does with protecting profits….for disney

 

[tom1944]

Why not just change the rule to the owner of the points are required to use the points for a personal stay at least 50% of the time over a 3-year period.

If you own 100 points you need to use 150 or more over 3 years If you own the points as an LLC, the members listed have to be on the reservation and check in.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Why not just change the rule to the owner of the points are required to use the points for a personal stay at least 50% of the time over a 3-year period.

If you own 100 points you need to use 150 or more over 3 years If you own the points as an LLC, the members listed have to be on the reservation and check in.

What happens when grand ma is the points owner but in a nursing home?

or she purchased in her name for the children

 

[MICKIMINI]

Yeah, I agree with all of that. So if walking affects me almost 100 percent of the times I want to go (March, April, November, December), am I supposed to console myself that Sandi doesn’t have a problem with her dates, or do I come and see how many others are like me and are tired of it?

I agree with much of what you say- let’s wait till they knock the big renters off and see if that helps. I also agree that anything that harms members using their contract normally is a no go. That includes fees for changes and the other penalties proposed. What we don’t agree on is 1) is walking an issue/is it wrong and 2) can it be fixed? You say no and no, I say yes and yes, there is no magic mix of words that is going to sway the other to their side. I’m a big “burn it to the ground” kinda guy, and I hope as DVC members become younger and more tech savvy, the prevalence of walking forces DVC to fix it.

We bought two AKV contracts but were never able to secure a Studio, 1 BR or 2 BR Value in October. We go that time every year, so we are well aware it is busy, but it turned out to be impossible. We have other points we can use for SAP so we sold them.

 

[tom1944]

What happens when grand ma is the points owner but in a nursing home?

or she purchased in her name for the children

No one is stopping grandma from adding owners

For certain situations I am sure Disney can give a waiver under certain circumstances

 

[Robbie Cottam]

No one is stopping grandma from adding owners

For certain situations I am sure Disney can give a waiver under certain circumstances

But, one of the great part of being an owner is you don’t have too….

and I’m sure there are a lot of points held in family trusts that wouldn’t want to list owners …

 

[MICKIMINI]

I don't think DVD took into account back in 1992 that with development of the internet that there would be so many commercial sites to rent out unused points. Their idea of owner's renting out points would have been to friends and family which in turn could lead to more DVC memberships being sold. I would bet they never thought it would turn into a direct competition for guests to book their rooms.

I believe you are 100% correct! We bought in 1996 and I don't even think we had a PC at home back then. I had my big OKW binder (still have it) and I would look through all the pages with floor plans etc and decide what I wanted. I then looked at my checkbook-like register to see what we had for points and called. After reserving points I would make a note of resort, villa and points and deduct on my register. Very antiquated but I don't ever remember NOT getting what I wanted LOL!

 

[Genie+]

And your contract has not been violated. The contract says any room can be booked 11 months out.

But where does it say once it’s booked, an owner is required to keep it for X days or can’t change it the next day if they want?

And yes, I know it’s the principal of it all but the point will always remain that majority of the rooms walked that people get shut out of and don’t get via waitlist or stalking are the ones that have too high demand.

Before anyone says it, I know you shouldn’t have to go back in but when you put in the waitlist right at 11 months, and it truly was walkers, then that will fill within a very short time.

I‘m not convinced but still looking into all the wording. So far-

“5. First Come, First Served Reservations. Reservation requests for DVC Resorts are taken on a first come, first served
basis. All Vacation Homes are reserved on a space-available basis. To request a reservation at their Home Resort, Club
Members may call Member Services or make a reservation online via the DVC Website no earlier than eleven (11) months prior to the desired check in day for a reservation of up to seven (7) consecutive days after the desired check in day.

6. Home Resort Priorities and Reservations at Other DVC Resorts.
a. Home Resort Priority Period.
1) From eleven (11) months through and including eight (8) months in advance of their desired check in day for
a reservation of up to seven (7) consecutive days after the desired check in day, Club Members have priority
access to make reservations at their Home Resort. During the Home Resort Priority Period, only Club
Members who have Ownership Interests at the Home Resort and who are using Home Resort Vacation Points
will be able to request reservations at their Home Resort.”

-the contracts are going out of their way to say things like desired checkin day.
There’s not a right to start booking sooner, so in no way does the ability to walk need to be preserved.

Why even bother explaining 12 and 13 month priority windows for Special Seasons Preference Lists if the system intends a way for owners to access this themselves, as below:

10. Special Season Preference Lists. Because of high demand for certain DVC Resorts or during certain periods, DVC
Operator may, but is not obligated to, establish Special Season Preference Lists at any one or all DVC Resorts. The purpose
of the lists is to provide all Club Members with opportunities to make reservations at high-demand DVC Resorts or during
specific high-demand periods. Club Members will receive adequate notice of the establishment of any Special Season
Preference Lists. All reservation requests that include a day covered by a Special Season Preference List are subject to the
following rules:
a. Club Members are added to a Special Season Preference List on a first come, first served basis by calling Member
Services. If more than one Special Season Preference List is established, either at a single DVC Resort or at
multiple DVC Resorts, then Club Members may sign up for each list separately. However, an Ownership Interest
may only be represented once per Special Season Preference List. Each Special Season Preference List is
administered independently of any other Special Season Preference List.
b. DVC Operator may institute minimum stay requirements for any Special Season Preference List. Reservation
requests that include a Use Day covered by a Special Season Preference List are subject to such minimum stay
requirements.
c. DVC Operator may impose limitations on the number of reservations allowed per Club membership. Reservation
requests that include a Use Day covered by a Special Season Preference List are subject to such limitations on
the number of reservations per Club membership.
d. Member Services may begin contacting Club Members on the Special Season Preference List up to fifteen (15)
months before the designated special season. Club Members will be contacted in the order that their Special
Season Preference List request was received by Member Services.
e. If a Club Member accepts a reservation offered by Member Services from the Special Season Preference List, the
Club Member will be removed from that DVC Resort’s Special Season Preference List after receiving a confirmed
reservation. Club Members will also be removed from the Special Season Preference List if they confirm a special
season reservation received through a cancellation. If a Club Member declines a reservation offered by Member
Services from the Special Season Preference List the first time it is offered, the Club Member’s name will remain
on the Special Season Preference List for one (1) additional year (if applicable).
f. The second time a Club Member declines a reservation offered by Member Services from the Special Season
Preference List, the Club Member’s name will be removed from that DVC Resort’s Special Season Preference List.
Club Members who wish to remain on the same Special Season Preference List must submit a new request to
Member Services. Member Services will add their request to the bottom of that DVC Resort’s Special Season
Preference List.
g. If a Club Member cancels a confirmed reservation made through a Special Season Preference List, the Club
Member’s name will not be returned to that same list. Club Members who wish to remain on the same Special
Season Preference List must submit a new request to Member Services. Member Services will add the Club
Member’s request to the bottom of a Special Season Preference List.
h. Special Season Preference Lists are not subject to the four (4) month Home Resort Priority Period. Special Season
Preference Lists are subject to a one (1) month Home Resort Priority Period. Therefore, during the thirteenth (13th)
month in advance of their desired check in day, Club Members have exclusive access to reservation requests for
Special Season Preference Lists at their Home Resort. Only Club Members who have Ownership Interests at the
Home Resort and who are using Home Resort Vacation Points will be able to request reservations at their Home
Resort for reservations that are the subject of a Special Season Preference Lists. Club Members who are using
DVC Vacation Points to request reservations at a DVC Resort that is not their Home Resort and that are the subject
of a Special Season Preference Lists may begin requesting reservations twelve (12) months in advance of their
11
desired check in day. All other Home Resort Priority Period rules apply to reservations made off of a Special
Season Preference Lists.
i. Member Services, in its discretion may institute a lottery system for selecting Club Members from a Special Season
Preference List to receive a confirmed reservation and impose other limitations and restrictions as it deems
appropriate.”

 

[0FF TO NEVERLAND]

The only thing that stops me from buying a DVC contract is the fact that I can rent direct from an owner. Did the math and it didn't make sense to buy. If I didn't have an option to rent from an owner, I would probably buy, cause it would still be cheaper then booking direct with Disney, but much higher then renting points.

 

[zavandor]

The solution to both of these problems is to apportion high-demand rooms by lottery*. But if you think people get upset about walking, they will be absolutely apoplectic at the thought of having "no control."

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*: Ignoring for a moment whether or not the current documents allow it directly and/or would allow DVCMC to change the reservation mechanism to in turn implement something like this.

They did it in the first year or two that OKW was open, for NYE (and maybe Christmas), then deemed it unnecessary since. It still survives as a possibility in the documents, at least, it's in the SSR POS. And I agree with you, people would HATE it ferociously.

 

[CWTC]

No one is stopping grandma from adding owners

For certain situations I am sure Disney can give a waiver under certain circumstances

I struggle with any solutions adding burden to owners and/or member services as well as a solution adding another loophole. So, this waiver would need to be done online or on the phone, adding a time burden to members. Then member services has to review this waiver which either increases wait time for members or necessitates using our dues to hire more cast members - what are the rules or situations where the waiver is approved? Who reviews medical records outlining that grandma was in the hospital and can’t use her points? What illnesses count? Once those rules are delineated, then people will start figuring out how to get around this waiver. There are numerous examples of people cheating or outwitting Disney in situations outside of DVC.