Am I the only one underwhelmed by Riviera?

[DVC_HK]

As a Riv owner I've noticed the only hard to get rooms at the moment are the SV studios for the most part and occasionally the towers. We always book at 11 months though to make sure we get what we want but if Riv gets too full we have some SSR points on the back burner since it's the last to always fill.

Now we tried breakfast at the little quickservice downstairs on Saturday waiting for our boarding passes to be called for ROTR and I will say it was one of the best quickservice meals we have had. There is a lot that just absolutely love about this resort like the zero entry pool so when we do finally have children our parents can easily join them in the pool.

To those who don't like it that's fine as everyone has different tastes and we don't mind because it helps us buy more and more points there the less that do lol

 

[ClemTig]

Current RIV owners should HOPE future sales go poorly so that Disney is forced to remove the resale restrictions.

 

[Sandisw]

Current RIV owners should HOPE future sales go poorly so that Disney is forced to remove the resale restrictions.

Not at all.

 

[ClemTig]

Not at all.

So you feel you “benefit” from resale restrictions? Please educate me how that could in any way be beneficial to you.

 

[DVC_HK]

So you feel you “benefit” from resale restrictions? Please educate me how that could in any way be beneficial to you.

I wouldn't say there is a benefit but Riv is selling and selling very well from the Dec numbers. They will probably continue with the restrictions at Reflections and any other new resort built until the contracts expire and they resell all the legacy resorts with them

 

[Sandisw]

So you feel you “benefit” from resale restrictions? Please educate me how that could in any way be beneficial to you.

I don’t see it as one way or the other. I bought knowing it was there and don’t feel it will have an impact on me at all,

I am an 11 month booker. I don’t stay at the same resort all the time. I own BWV and SSR points to book other stays, I don’t plan to sell the contract because it’s for my kids who are now co owners.

Of course, RIV is a different product. It’s resale value due to restrictions is going to be impacted for sure. However, I always assumed money spent to buy is lost so I don’t care if it’s worth zero.

For some, those are negatives that make it a resort not worth owning. I can say the same for other resorts that other people love,

I’d agree with you that if I bought with one set of rules and they changed them, I’d be upset. But, I didn’t.

The notion was it hurts all owners. And Im Just saying as an owner I don’t see it that way.

 

[ClemTig]

The notion was it hurts all owners. And Im Just saying as an owner I don’t see it that way.

Not trying to offend you, but I think the reason you don't see it that way is because you refuse to look.

 

[Sandisw]

Not trying to offend you, but I think the reason you don't see it that way is because you refuse to look.

And you refuse to see it differently because you refuse to understand that statements that make absolute claims tdon’t take in the specifics.

Feel free to think it will affect me. But as long as I get what I want at RIV when I book, then you can not argue with me that I have been hurt.

Feel free to argue with me that resale value and restrictions matter But you can’t tell me I’m wrong when I tell you I don’t care and it’s not a big deal.

Ill say it again..,could some direct owners become frustrated and have difficulty..sure...will all...nope.

Not to offend, but you have a real problem with the restrictions and want them to fail obviously but that doesn’t mean we will do,

 

[ClemTig]

I’ll stand by my statement. I have no desire to push a stone up a hill and try to convince you in any way.

For the record, I own older contracts, and will probably buy at Reflections, resale restrictions or not. But I am also convinced that I (or my descendants) will be affected by the restrictions, even if kept to end date.

 

[Wakey]

I see Sandi’s point- she got what she knew she paid for. But even so, I’d still expect any owner to hope they’d lift the restrictions- as the value of their asset would probably gain 25%+ overnight. Surely everyone would appreciate that- whether they intend to sell or not?

 

[AKNOTTS66]

I see Sandi’s point- she got what she knew she paid for. But even so, I’d still expect any owner to hope they’d lift the restrictions- as the value of their asset would probably gain 25%+ overnight. Surely everyone would appreciate that- whether they intend to sell or not?

I mean even if riviera Resale prices drop to $100 a point thats around what AKV is selling at. So if one bought AKV direct its $186 a point and Riviera is $195. Its a similar drop in price. I can't see riviera going below 95$ a point which is BRV and Aulani territory.

 

[kboo]

I see Sandi’s point- she got what she knew she paid for. But even so, I’d still expect any owner to hope they’d lift the restrictions- as the value of their asset would probably gain 25%+ overnight. Surely everyone would appreciate that- whether they intend to sell or not?

I agree, I also knew what I was getting into, and how I priced it (what I was willing to pay). Of course I’d hope they’d lift the restrictions, but there are also a lot of things I hope/wish for that are never going to happen (when will my younger daughter sleep through the night? [******deleted political thoughts here ******], so I don’t spend much time thinking or talking about it.

No need to scream but your predictions are really nothing more than a guess.

As a RIV owner, one will need to book at 11 months or it could be slim pickings. Not any different than elsewhere. There are CCV owners currently struggling to get a studio now AKV owners struggle with value and concierge No restrictions in place.

Other categories that come to mind:

BLT standard (and to some extent theme park)
BWV standard, especially studios
VGF standard, especially studios

 

[ClemTig]

I mean even if riviera Resale prices drop to $100 a point thats around what AKV is selling at. So if one bought AKV direct its $186 a point and Riviera is $195. Its a similar drop in price. I can't see riviera going below 95$ a point which is BRV and Aulani territory.

Not sure why the drop in BRV, I like that resort. Most drops in resale prices seem to correlate with 2 variables- desirability of the resort and the inverse of MFs. The first is hard to predict, the later is high for RIV. Wouldn’t surprise me at all to see it drop by half in price on the resale market.

 

[AKNOTTS66]

Not sure why the drop in BRV, I like that resort. Most drops in resale prices seem to correlate with 2 variables- desirability of the resort and the inverse of MFs. The first is hard to predict, the later is high for RIV. Wouldn’t surprise me at all to see it drop by half in price on the resale market.

BRV expires in 2042. Boardwalk is around $115-$130 and Beach Club is $145-160. I like BRV but I guess cause its not within walking distance of epcot or on the boardwalk or monorail loop. I'd also say Expiration date moreso than MFs. I think only Vero Beach and Hilton heads MF's really are the crazy ones.

 

[Sandisw]

I see Sandi’s point- she got what she knew she paid for. But even so, I’d still expect any owner to hope they’d lift the restrictions- as the value of their asset would probably gain 25%+ overnight. Surely everyone would appreciate that- whether they intend to sell or not?

If they lift the restrictions or do something in terms of cash type things, It would be great. It would enhance the contract.

But do I care if they do? I just honestly don’t. I’m always the person who accepts things as they are as long as I feel I made the best decision for me and had all the facts , the what if’s don’t matter

 

[DVC BLT]

I agree. I really think that once there are sufficient Resale Owners (and it will probably take less than 10%), then Riviera will be a special case, and substantially different compared to other resorts in the past.

Resale owners will KNOW that the only way to use their points will be to Reserve something during the 7 to 11 month window. Because if they don't, then they won't be able to use them anywhere.

NO OTHER RESORT (so far) HAS THIS PROBLEM.

This means that most Resale owners will either be booking early, OR ELSE RENTING THEIR POINTS OUT, so that they get some benefit from them. RIVIERA points will become some of the most Rented points of any DVC resort.

Since there will be the extra fear that they might not be able to use them, and the fear that they also might not be able to rent them out UNLESS THEY RESERVE POPULAR DATES, the Resale Owners at Riviera will be very aggressive at both Renting Early and WALKING their points. This will put extra stress on other, DIRECT OWNERS, who will have to follow suit, in order to compete and GET POPULAR ROOMS on Popular Dates. IT WILL BE LIKE AN ARMS RACE. So Direct Riviera Owners will also be booking earlier,on an average, and Walking more, compared to owners at other resorts.

Lastly, you could say, "But the Direct Owners can still use their points at 7 months at other Resorts." This is true, BUT IT IS ALSO TRUE, AS WE HAVE SEEN AND ARE SEEING, THAT IT IS GETTING HARDER AND HARDER TO GET GOOD RESERVATIONS AT OTHER RESORTS AT 7 MONTHS.

So, my conclusion is, the Disney Restrictions on Riviera Resale WILL degrade the experience for ALL Riviera Owners, whether Direct or Resale. And the extra pressure will induce MORE Direct Owners to sell, in order to get out of the Rat Race, and this will lead to even more Resale Owners, and on and on.

This is by far the most legit concern with RIV. Its the only item that made me stop and think before moving ahead.

In the end, there many outcomes that could result, one of which is the worst case scenario laid out above, but I highly doubt disney plans to stick it to me so hard that my RIV experience prevents me from ever adding on again. They charged me $42,000, not many would spend that much & return to add on in the future with a product that is impossible to use. I think Disney is a money hungry company (like most S&P 500 companies), but you dont get that successful literally burning your customer to the ground and watching. They get that repeat buyers and return customers to the park are key (like any business) and that customer satisfaction is more important than running it to zero. If i'm wrong, and they do watch us burn, like they will watch all future DVC resort buyers burn (due to the same restrictions), its probably the end of Disneyworld as a whole. In other words, if it gets to be a widespread problem that direct owners cant book rooms, they will do something to correct (fee to transfer, etc). But I felt the need to jump as its an EPCOT resort with direct access to international gateway.

 

[ClemTig]

This is by far the most legit concern with RIV. Its the only item that made me stop and think before moving ahead.

... I think Disney is a money hungry company (like most S&P 500 companies), but you dont get that successful literally burning your customer to the ground and watching. They get that repeat buyers and return customers to the park are key (like any business) and that customer satisfaction is more important than running it to zero...

Well.... I'd counterpoint that they will continue to move in the direction of maximum profit until they get pushback. But if we, as customers, accept any offer "because it's Disney" then we will get what we deserve.

 

[PsycProfPlum]

Well.... I'd counterpoint that they will continue to move in the direction of maximum profit until they get pushback. But if we, as customers, accept any offer "because it's Disney" then we will get what we deserve.

Most companies are very short sighted. Individual bonuses tend to be tied to quarterly results or, at longest, annual ones. The people at all levels of Disney respond to the incentives placed on outcomes put in place by those at the top. I'm not sure they intend to burn their customers but they may be willing to do long-term harm for short term gain.

 

[ClemTig]

Most companies are very short sighted. Individual bonuses tend to be tied to quarterly results or, at longest, annual ones. The people at all levels of Disney respond to the incentives placed on outcomes put in place by those at the top. I'm not sure they intend to burn their customers but they may be willing to do long-term harm for short term gain.

I think you hit the mark. Disney really changed when Walt and Roy passed on. Now it is driven by the needs of Wall Street.

 

[DVC_HK]

I think you hit the mark. Disney really changed when Walt and Roy passed on. Now it is driven by the needs of Wall Street.

I'm hoping for a major change with the new President of WDW and Iger stepping down in 2021. Maybe the new CEO relives Chapek of his duties