Canon 450D (Rebel XSi, Kiss X2)

[WilsonFlyer]

Of all my Rebels, including my T2i first trip first of the month, I've never had need for a second battery in one day. I've always just charged overnight and even then not always.

I've had days my meter hadn't even moved at the end of the night.

You guys must shoot way more than I do and I shoot a LOT.

As for the generic battery thing, if you guys think the batteries coming out of China are any different than the batteries Canon buys from China pre-branded, I've got some quality bridgehead I'd like to sell you.

If the manufacturer claims a battery damaged their product under warranty, the burden is on them to prove it, not for you to prove it didn't.

 

[Mockingjay12]

I would also recommend picking up a second battery. But be sure it's authentic, as some of the ones sold for cheap online don't last nearly half as long as the Canons. Also, a very good investment would be to buy a grip for your DSLR so you have twice the battery life. I have one for my XTi and 30D and they last me a fairly long time. Then again, I don't have Live View on any of those. But it's ultimately up to you. You can buy a spare and have it fully charged as a back-up or look into a Battery Grip. Just have your charger with you at all times.

 

[dioxide45]

My wife shoots thousands of photos while on vacation. While we did travel with three batteries for her Rebel, I never recall having to change them mid day. These batteries will last a long time, it would be doubtful you would need to switch the battery in the middle of the day.

Perhaps if you are going out from first light till 12:00 am, it may be necessary, but for the average day one will be fine.

 

[ukcatfan]

If the manufacturer claims a battery damaged their product under warranty, the burden is on them to prove it, not for you to prove it didn't.

Damage from a battery that short circuited or leaked acid is pretty easy to determine. There will either be burn marks or places the acid melted the camera. To be covered under warranty they will require that you include the battery that caused the damage. If it was not their brand battery then you have no warranty. The risk is not high, but I think the OP should at least be made aware that it can happen.

You also have too much faith in the warranty rules. This is not a court of law, it is a corporation. If they think you are trying to cheat them then they can deny your claim. Their opinion is all the burden of proof they need. You would likely have to sue them to try get your way. If you really did use a 3rd party battery and sued them you would probably lose and then be liable for their legal costs. Basically, it is not worth your time since your loss is not very large in a legal sense, but you could end up on the hook for many thousands if you lost.

 

[bob100]

I bought a Canon knock-off for like $8 off Amazon. It works just as well as the Canon version too.... and I could've bought like 10 of those for the price of one Canon version.

they are all made in the same Chinese factory!

$60 at Wolf Camera
$40 at B&H
$8 Amazon
$6 ebay

 

[mom2rtk]

I've been very happy with the performance of the batteries for my Xsi.

That said though, it just makes good sense to have at least one back-up. What are you going to do if you drag yourself to your room late after Wishes one night and forget to recharge it?

I look at a backup as a good insurance policy against the very real possibility of human error on my part!

 

[AlbertZeroK]

they are all made in the same Chinese factory!

And you know this how?

You have been vocal about $6 batteries, I'm happy you find them reliable and usable. With a background in electronics, I know how easy it is to manipulate stats like mAh ratings which are not industrial standard and sometimes are out right lies. I know the differences between cheap Chinese battery cells and more expensive Japanese cells. Quality is hard to see from the outside sometimes, but easy to see in reliability, usability and longevity in the devices. I'm not saying the $6 battery is bad, just that the only way to ensure reliability, usability and longevity across the board is buy a genuine battery from the camera manufacture.

 

[ukcatfan]

And you know this how?

You have been vocal about $6 batteries, I'm happy you find them reliable and usable. With a background in electronics, I know how easy it is to manipulate stats like mAh ratings which are not industrial standard and sometimes are out right lies. I know the differences between cheap Chinese battery cells and more expensive Japanese cells. Quality is hard to see from the outside sometimes, but easy to see in reliability, usability and longevity in the devices. I'm not saying the $6 battery is bad, just that the only way to ensure reliability, usability and longevity across the board is buy a genuine battery from the camera manufacture.

I am with you on this. Also consider that the same factory can make similar models with different quality levels. The quality level they make for one to be labeled Canon can be different than one to be labeled by their house brand.

 

[KYCruiseCrazy]

OK, I found actual Canon batteries on Amazon for $35 (and I have a $20 gift card!) and I found a charger on eBay for $15 that comes with two cheap batteries. I figure if I want to charge two batteries overnight i need two chargers... and then I'd have those cheap batteries just in case. Can't hurt anything.

I have 2 batteries and only need to charge 1 every other day. If you are charging 2 batteries a day, that would be a lot a daily photo's.

Of all my Rebels, including my T2i first trip first of the month, I've never had need for a second battery in one day. I've always just charged overnight and even then not always.

I've had days my meter hadn't even moved at the end of the night.

You guys must shoot way more than I do and I shoot a LOT.

As for the generic battery thing, if you guys think the batteries coming out of China are any different than the batteries Canon buys from China pre-branded, I've got some quality bridgehead I'd like to sell you.

If the manufacturer claims a battery damaged their product under warranty, the burden is on them to prove it, not for you to prove it didn't.

If you charge the battery every day, you might get "memory" loss on the battery in the long run and shorten the life.

My wife shoots thousands of photos while on vacation. While we did travel with three batteries for her Rebel, I never recall having to change them mid day. These batteries will last a long time, it would be doubtful you would need to switch the battery in the middle of the day.

Perhaps if you are going out from first light till 12:00 am, it may be necessary, but for the average day one will be fine.

I took almost 4000 on each of the the past 2 trips. I recharged a battery every other day. And some times longer in between charges.

I've been very happy with the performance of the batteries for my Xsi.

That said though, it just makes good sense to have at least one back-up. What are you going to do if you drag yourself to your room late after Wishes one night and forget to recharge it?

I look at a backup as a good insurance policy against the very real possibility of human error on my part!

I can take over 600+ photo's on a full charge without using the live view. I like to turn off a few functions to help with extending the life of the battery. I like to use a 2 second view instead of 5-10 seconds. It's also best if you run the battery down as low as possible so you don't get a shorter life out of them.

Better safe then sorry. We took a trip back in 2007 and I forgot to copy the memory card before I deleted them. Of course, I lost the photo's of me dressed up as Goofy with Snow White and the 7 Dwarfs and one with only Dopey and Grumpy. I'm still kicking myself. It's what happens when your tired.

 

[AlbertZeroK]

Good point about memory effects in batteries. I too only charge dead batteries mostly although i have been known to give them a top off on rare occasion. But most batteries like being drained before recharging.

 

[bob100]

I'm not saying the $6 battery is bad, just that the only way to ensure reliability, usability and longevity across the board is buy a genuine battery from the camera manufacture.

Canon Marketing Dept. loves you!

 

[WilsonFlyer]

If you charge the battery every day, you might get "memory" loss on the battery in the long run and shorten the life.

Old wives tale leftover from the NiCAD and NiMH battery days (It wasn't even near as true for NiMH, BTW). Lithium cells do not suffer from memory problems even though like any battery, they do have a finite number of charge cycles they can endure (usually into the thousands). Usually, that's way beyond how long I usually keep a camera anyway. I have RC lithiums that are 7-8 years old and still going as strong as the day they were new.

Most good lithium chargers kick off to a trickle charge to top off or peak a battery anyway. Again; unlike NiCAD and NiMH, Lithium cells can be left on trickle indefinately though it is certainly not recommended.

But most batteries like being drained before recharging.

Equally untrue with Lithiums. More damage is done to a Lithium by OVER draining it than pulling it half to 2/3 down and then recharging. Since this is a known, most manufacturers include firmware that prevents overdraining lithium cells. If a Lithium cell is over-drained, many times it will never charge again, regardless the age of the cell(s).

 

[WilsonFlyer]

I am with you on this. Also consider that the same factory can make similar models with different quality levels. The quality level they make for one to be labeled Canon can be different than one to be labeled by their house brand.

I will certainly concede that one to you.

 

[AlbertZeroK]

Old wives tale leftover from the NiCAD and NiMH battery days (It wasn't even near as true for NiMH, BTW). Lithium cells do not suffer from memory problems even though like any battery, they do have a finite number of charge cycles they can endure (usually into the thousands). Usually, that's way beyond how long I usually keep a camera anyway. I have RC lithiums that are 7-8 years old and still going as strong as the day they were new.

Most good lithium chargers kick off to a trickle charge to top off or peak a battery anyway. Again; unlike NiCAD and NiMH, Lithium cells can be left on trickle indefinately though it is certainly not recommended.



Equally untrue with Lithiums. More damage is done to a Lithium by OVER draining it than pulling it half to 2/3 down and then recharging. Since this is a known, most manufacturers include firmware that prevents overdraining lithium cells. If a Lithium cell is over-drained, many times it will never charge again, regardless the age of the cell(s).

Interesting, I'll have to check into this.

An interesting side note, when I got both my Droid and Droid X, I've read that you should charge and discharge your battery a couple times before you get the full life of the battery. Also I read in alot of electronics I've bought, especially phones, that you should completely charge the battery and leave it plugged in trickle charging for overnight. Wonder how all that plays in.

But as I understand you, it's still not a good idea to charge the batteries after every shoot unless the battery is low - especially when I may only grab 20 or 30 shots of something or someone. Right?

 

[Bstanley]

Lithium Polymer cells (all proprietary batteries these days are probably LiPo - ie Lithium Ion) are very different creatures than previous rechargable (NiCd or NiMh) batteries. As pointed out they do not suffer from Memory effect, have excellent energy density ( they hold a lot of energy compared to their size and weight) and they hold a charge on the shelf for a long time.

Their best feature is also their downfall - they possess a very low internal resistance to current flow. This not only means that they waste less energy as they provide it to the device (which helps them last longer) but it also makes them ideal for devices that need a bunch of energy in a spurt - like charging up the flash as quickly as possible.

The bad news is that because they have such a low internal resistance if they are short circuited they will release ALL of their energy so quickly it will boil their insides and explode the plastic case like a itty bitty hand grenade - although typically they simply get hot enough to melt down and sometimes catch fire. Their was a time when they were forbidden on airplanes for that reason.

Because of this Lithium batteries now contain very sophisticated electronics to protect them (and the user) when things go wrong.

Because of the sophistication needed to design, handle and assemble Lithium packs it isn't really possible for a truly 3rd rate house to do it. The camera manufacturers themselves will contract out their packs to one of a handful of battery companies. A '3rd party battery' pack for sale will typically also come from the same companies.

If you stick with a brand of Battery Pack sold by a reputable dealer - ie if the batteries are available at B&H and Adorama - Opteka for example - the packs are fine. If you buy 'Josie Wales' batteries direct from DealExtreme (which is a Hong Kong based distributor for 100s of mainland manufacturers) - your risk level of receiving something without the proper internal electronics goes up. If you look at a Canon battery pack you will see all kinds of little symbols - these are approvals from Safety organizations from all around the world (UL, VDE, NEMKO, etc), a true 3rd party battery won't have those. Does that mean it isn't safe - maybe - or it may come from the same manufacturer that made the Canon batteries who knows it meets the same standards and doesn't want to pay the money to all the safety agencies to get the paperwork done. The only way to be rock solid sure is to buy Canon batteries from a Canon dealer.

I've used Opteka and found them to be the same or better than OEM but I'm also sure that there are other 3rd party batteries out there that are filled with the equivalent of sawdust and shaving cream...

Oh - while Lithiums don't have memory effect the control electronics inside the pack do have a characteristic that acts like memory effect. If you have a pack that doesn't seem to last as long as it should - it's relatively new and lasts half as long as an identical pack - you may need to run it to empty to 'fix it'. The internal electronics figure out where 'empty' is by counting how many electrons go in and how many electrons go out (if you are a physicist you think they count holes, same thing). If the counting electronics are a little bit off the pack will indicate empty earlier and earlier. Running it until it is really empty will reset the counter to the real zero point. It's not something you need to do like back in the NiCd days, but if you have a pack that is acting squirrely give it a try.

 

[photo_chick]

Cheap batteries can void warranties. You spend a lot on your body, why would you skimp on something so important that can cause a lot of damage?

As far as how many batteries I think a lot depends on how you use the camera. I just went with my Canon 50D. I charged the battery once the whole trip (10 days total). I used my flash for maybe 3 shots the entire time. I never used live view and I seldom used the LCD screen. I do not turn the camera on and off every time (I hate waiting for the sensor cleaning), but it is set to standby after 2 minutes.

 

[webshark3]

I've used a lot of 3rd party and official batteries in all my cameras. Honestly, my experience is 50/50 for OEM or 3rd party across the board (Panny, Fuji, Canon, Sigma, Pentax, Sony, and misc).

However, for my last trip I needed a few more XSi batteries. I decided to go OEM since one of my last XSi 3rd party batteries didn't like humidity.

I went to the Amazon Marketplace and found a (reputable) seller who had factory refurbished Canon batteries for $20. So this seems to work as a good compromise. 2 refurb XSi batteries for less than the price of 1 new OEM battery.

Just be careful with the sellers. A lot of fake OEM batteries out there.

 

[webshark3]

Damage from a battery that short circuited or leaked acid is pretty easy to determine. There will either be burn marks or places the acid melted the camera. To be covered under warranty they will require that you include the battery that caused the damage. If it was not their brand battery then you have no warranty. The risk is not high, but I think the OP should at least be made aware that it can happen.

You also have too much faith in the warranty rules. This is not a court of law, it is a corporation. If they think you are trying to cheat them then they can deny your claim. Their opinion is all the burden of proof they need. You would likely have to sue them to try get your way. If you really did use a 3rd party battery and sued them you would probably lose and then be liable for their legal costs. Basically, it is not worth your time since your loss is not very large in a legal sense, but you could end up on the hook for many thousands if you lost.

I need to dig up old dpreview threads, but I remember 3rd party batteries cannot void a warranty in the U.S.

The Magnuson-Moss Act

The MMA, in particular, states unequivocally that a company cannot sell a product under the pretense that the consumer must purchase replacement parts, add-ons, etc., from only that particular company. This includes batteries, chargers, and power supplies that do not have the manufacturers' "blessing".
MAGNUSON-MOSS WARRANTY IMPROVEMENT ACT

United States Code Annotated 
Title 15 Commerce and Trade
 Chapter 50 Consumer Product Warranties
15 Section 2302

No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer's using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection be waived by the commission if:

1. The warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and
2. the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest.

 

[AlbertZeroK]

I need to dig up old dpreview threads, but I remember 3rd party batteries cannot void a warranty in the U.S.

The Magnuson-Moss Act

The MMA, in particular, states unequivocally that a company cannot sell a product under the pretense that the consumer must purchase replacement parts, add-ons, etc., from only that particular company. This includes batteries, chargers, and power supplies that do not have the manufacturers' "blessing".
MAGNUSON-MOSS WARRANTY IMPROVEMENT ACT

United States Code Annotated 
Title 15 Commerce and Trade
 Chapter 50 Consumer Product Warranties
15 Section 2302

No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer's using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection be waived by the commission if:

1. The warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and
2. the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest.

I think if the battery it's self did the damage, then it would be void, if it wasn't the battery, then you should be okay.

I personally don't think using a 3rd party item on a camera voids anything, but if that third party item damages the camera, then it's a whole 'nother ball game.

 

[webshark3]

I think if the battery it's self did the damage, then it would be void, if it wasn't the battery, then you should be okay.

I personally don't think using a 3rd party item on a camera voids anything, but if that third party item damages the camera, then it's a whole 'nother ball game.

I was just thinking that too. You have an excellent point. Cell phones use water sensors to determine if a unit was used outside of "normal use." Not a whole lot of difference between water and battery acid ruining a device.