Covid And The Rest of Us

[EMom]

We rescheduled our trip to Europe for May 2021. I really don't have faith we will be able to go. If there's a 14 day quarantine where we're headed, there is no reason to go, since the entire trip is only 18 days. But every time it looks as if things are under control, there's another spike. I have no problem with European countries keeping us out. They have to look out for their own safety.

 

[ronandannette]

We rescheduled our trip to Europe for May 2021. I really don't have faith we will be able to go. If there's a 14 day quarantine where we're headed, there is no reason to go, since the entire trip is only 18 days. But every time it looks as if things are under control, there's another spike. I have no problem with European countries keeping us out. They have to look out for their own safety.

We were faced with the same situation in mid-March, before any of us could really imagine how things would go. Since our trip was intended to be our 25th Anniversary celebration, we didn't have the heart to just pick a random date and re-schedule. I'm glad now we didn't. Even if we could get in to each of the countries we'd planned to visit, there's still the 14-day isolation requirement upon return to Canada that seems to be in place indefinitely.

 

[EMom]

We were faced with the same situation in mid-March, before any of us could really imagine how things would go. Since our trip was intended to be our 25th Anniversary celebration, we didn't have the heart to just pick a random date and re-schedule. I'm glad now we didn't. Even if we could get in to each of the countries we'd planned to visit, there's still the 14-day isolation requirement upon return to Canada that seems to be in place indefinitely.

Ours was an anniversary trip too, so the cancellation was very disappointing. We have rescheduled to a similar time of the year in 2021. If the 2021 trip isn't canceled, it will just be a milestone anniversary + 1.

We crossed our fingers and hoped we could go this year, but every airline canceled, even the smaller European ones. By the time the trip rolled around, everything we wanted to see was closed anyway. DH wanted to visit some workmates in the Czech Republic NEXT MAY, but they told him they won't be in the office by then. The best they could offer was to meet for lunch, and that will have to do.

 

[ronandannette]

Ours was an anniversary trip too, so the cancellation was very disappointing. We have rescheduled to a similar time of the year in 2021. If the 2021 trip isn't canceled, it will just be a milestone anniversary + 1.

We crossed our fingers and hoped we could go this year, but every airline canceled, even the smaller European ones. By the time the trip rolled around, everything we wanted to see was closed anyway. DH wanted to visit some workmates in the Czech Republic NEXT MAY, but they told him they won't be in the office by then. The best they could offer was to meet for lunch, and that will have to do.

I hope it works out for you. Belated Happy Anniversary!

 

[bavaria]

That seems like really big news. In reading the article this seems less about the virus itself and more about economy/travel patterns of the citizens maybe? I could be off base but I was thinking about that because of this statement in the article: “Testing obligations were necessary to control return traffic and prevent returnees from staying in quarantine for a long time,” says the spokesperson. “With the end of the summer holiday season we return to long-term quarantine rules.” I just find that interesting that testing appears to be mostly able to happen (as in supplies) but the reliance on testing versus quarantines is done based on movement frequency I guess for lack of a better term. Sorry I may be explaining my thoughts terribly here.

I'm trying to make sense of it, honestly. I do agree with you that it is mostly driven by holidays now, vs in September will be lower business travel and probably less travel overall. The quarantine will not be 14 days, but rather get tested within the first 5 days and you can be free from quarantine if you test negative at a certain point. Voluntary tests are rumoured to be no longer free but 59 Euro.

I read an article today which says the one testing centre at FRA airport which is on the walkway to the Squaire (largest office building in Germany, next to the airport, houses multinational companies and the long distance train station and shops and four hotels) did 40,000 (!!) FREE tests in the last 2 weeks and about 100 (Yes, I reread it a few times) tested positive, mainly from 'low risk' countries.

There are several testing spots in the airport, and that one is not for the high risk arrivals. So mostly people like me. I was planning to do a few free tests on my way to/from places next month as I start to travel more, even to low risk areas. There is a concern that these free tests as reassurance are using up resources, when so few are actually testing positive

This is also interesting - people in Germany are not getting COVID on busses, trains, OR planes! Frankfurt is one of the hubs of Europe, and with Madrid and London having also many reduced flights, may have been the busiest in the last months. And yet with the hundreds of flights a day, also into major German hubs like MUC and DUS, only 8 people caught COVID from airplane travel. EIGHT in a country of 85 million people... EIGHT.

Public transport is particularly good. The RKI recorded only three outbreaks in aircraft , in which a total of eight people were infected. 66 people were infected in 13 outbreaks in buses. In contrast, no infections were recorded on the railway.

https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/plus...sich-die-Deutschen-mit-Corona-infizieren.html

 

[anthony2k7]

That seems like really big news. In reading the article this seems less about the virus itself and more about economy/travel patterns of the citizens maybe? I could be off base but I was thinking about that because of this statement in the article: “Testing obligations were necessary to control return traffic and prevent returnees from staying in quarantine for a long time,” says the spokesperson. “With the end of the summer holiday season we return to long-term quarantine rules.” I just find that interesting that testing appears to be mostly able to happen (as in supplies) but the reliance on testing versus quarantines is done based on movement frequency I guess for lack of a better term. Sorry I may be explaining my thoughts terribly here.

To me that feels like they know the testing plan hasn't worked and has led to an increase in cases, but they want to keep it as an option in the future if/when cases drop again.

I may be wrong. But I never really got how they thought testing would be as safe as a simple quarantine.

 

[Karin1984]

Shall we do some good news?
In NL a theater producer announced to reopen one of their productions (The musical version of Tina Turner's life) per November. People with vouchers will get the option to rebook before actual sales open. It doesn't say anything about which measures to take for the audience or the performance. It might happen, it might not, but it's good that there is light at the horizon.

 

[bavaria]

I think it is the reverse. They tested so many people for no reason. And cases rose but not hospitalizations or deaths.

This is an example of testing not being targeted and having such a low positive rate that it is wasting tests. R0 is still below zero too.

It is hard to see the good news amongst all the doom headlines but it is in the very detailed RKI reports which come out daily.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

They are having people bring down plastic shower curtains they they will be hanging up. But right now the regulations say that if you are not in your home, you have to have a mask on everywhere, so yes all people will be wearing masks at all times in the center. We have only has a handful of cases, but testing has been VERY selective. They have been sending tests out and it takes 2-4 weeks to get results. We have a PCR testing machine but they just used it for the first time yesterday... and of the around 130 tests, 60 came back positive, We have 8 in the hospital as of yesterday. I am not sure at what point they will have more than day patients at the covid center I posted. We do have 100 breathing bpap machines that were donated from New York, but we do not have the medical staff to work them. Last I heard there was only one nurse on the island who had been trained to use one.

Yikes. Where I am, nurses don’t run bipap machines, respiratory therapists do. Nurses have no training on the machines themselves (at least where we are; nor is it part of the nursing curriculum, RT is its own specialty), but we do care for the patients who are wearing them. I have never worked as closely with respiratory therapists as I did during COVID. RT’s were assigned to the same ICUs as us so they were right there and we were all part of teams. Many patients were intubated and ventilated so there were things both the nurse and the RT had to do, along with a lot of troubleshooting. So they will need to recruit RT’s as well as nurses and doctors. And others to help run the units so the nurses, doctors and RTs can focus solely on patient care. It’s a lot.

For sick patients wearing masks, it’s not always easy. They are utilizing oxygen (and sometimes other things in that area of the face including feeding tubes) and it may not always be the type that sits in the nostrils. It can often be a face mask. And people take them off for various reasons and if they’re confused, etc. So not only does that preclude them wearing a regular mask to prevent germ spread, someone has to be right there to help get the mask back on them or they desaturate (or their hands have to be restrained) So that person would be at risk, and aerosolization of germs in the air will travel around the whole facility from people coughing. Shower curtains only go up so far. In negative air flow rooms those germs in the air get pulled back into a room so they can’t make it outside the room; doors remain shut. (There were some studies done about this.)

Certainly not trying to be a downer because I understand the situation there, but just pointing out that for COVID patients, a facility like that may wind up spreading more illness if it can’t be contained properly. Staff will have to wear PPE continuously, with no break. We, at least, could take it off when we came outside of rooms (with a whole protocol and ideally an observer to help us do it right, granted not always available). And we weren’t allowed to stay in rooms too long, ie a minimal amount of time. One time I couldn’t get out of a room for almost two hours because the patient was very sick with a lot to do, and others were banging on the door telling me I had to get out. We had hundreds of staff sickened so it was our unfortunate reality. Staff have to take PPE off at some point during their shifts to eat and go to the bathroom, and it has to be done very carefully as COVID germs are on the outside of masks, shields and gowns. It’s a tall order for people working 12hr shifts and longer. If staff start getting sick, who will be left to care for patients. Sucky situation all round - everywhere, and for everyone.

PS I hesitate to post this because I don’t want it to come across as , but I also think it’s important for people to understand the complexities in caring for these patients, too. Staff working in that facility will need a lot of support and reinforcements. But I do wish you all the best. We’re all in this together as a global community.

 

[MommyinHonduras]

@Pea-n-Me Thank you for taking the time to share what you know. Its one of the greatest personal challenges for me coming from the US. Honduras, as well and many many other countries just can not compare for places in the "west" Yes I know that is a charged word but I can use it positively! The advances that are normal to so many are still lacking in most of the world. Nursing here is a two year program that is taken after finishing 9th grade. I know in the main two cities there are some specialties but it is still very limited in comparison. Some here go out of their way to go to other countries and acquire more understanding and skills and excel at what they do, but this is limited to those who have both the money and the ambition to do so, so very few. Of our first cases on the island, one was the initial case admitted into the public hospital followed by over 50 of those who worked in the hospital and those in their immediate family, so PPE usage is also lacking both the actual PPS and how to use it. No one those people died nor anyone after. We have only had three deaths who were positive but none where covid was the cause. One doctor on the island just died last week and everyone is waiting to find out if he was positive or died by another cause. I have a friend who is from the US but practices here, she wears three layers and has to wash them every day to reuse the next day. If this virus was more deadly, places this this would not stand a chance. Good things we have going for us is most homes are open air and people spend time outside as a way of life.

 

[ronandannette]

In keeping with the theme of our discussions, here's an interesting article on the perceptions of people around the world, in relation to their own situations. IMO, the title is unnecessarily click-baity, so please push past that to give it a read:
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/top...art-poll-suggests/ar-BB18qDYd?ocid=spartanntp

 

[Pea-n-Me]

@Pea-n-Me Thank you for taking the time to share what you know. Its one of the greatest personal challenges for me coming from the US. Honduras, as well and many many other countries just can not compare for places in the "west" Yes I know that is a charged word but I can use it positively! The advances that are normal to so many are still lacking in most of the world. Nursing here is a two year program that is taken after finishing 9th grade. I know in the main two cities there are some specialties but it is still very limited in comparison. Some here go out of their way to go to other countries and acquire more understanding and skills and excel at what they do, but this is limited to those who have both the money and the ambition to do so, so very few. Of our first cases on the island, one was the initial case admitted into the public hospital followed by over 50 of those who worked in the hospital and those in their immediate family, so PPE usage is also lacking both the actual PPS and how to use it. No one those people died nor anyone after. We have only had three deaths who were positive but none where covid was the cause. One doctor on the island just died last week and everyone is waiting to find out if he was positive or died by another cause. I have a friend who is from the US but practices here, she wears three layers and has to wash them every day to reuse the next day. If this virus was more deadly, places this this would not stand a chance. Good things we have going for us is most homes are open air and people spend time outside as a way of life.

That is eye-opening! Thank you for sharing. I’m glad it seems as though your country is not inundated as of now, and maybe the strain is less deadly (as has been the latest going around). Outdoors helps, as well.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

In keeping with the theme of our discussions, here's an interesting article on the perceptions of people around the world, in relation to their own situations. IMO, the title is unnecessarily click-baity, so please push past that to give it a read:
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/top...art-poll-suggests/ar-BB18qDYd?ocid=spartanntp

It seems as if, for the US numbers, anyway, that perhaps they follow political lines. It’s true we were fractured going into it, not surprising we’re even more fractured after it.

 

[bavaria]

. Honduras, as well and many many other countries just can not compare for places in the "west" Yes I know that is a charged word but I can use it positively!

And your reality is the reality in many, many poor countries around the world. I think that it is very important to share these details as you have, so that people understand the privilege we have to be by accident of birth or extreme luck to be situated in wealthy countries. Often people forget, or simply don't realise, how real life is for most of the world's population.

And yes, it is interesting that many poor countries were not overwhelmed with COVID, but their reality is a very young population, and potential immunity due to dealing with a far broader range of disease and far less sanitary conditions that we do.

Thanks again for sharing what you can, as I think that you have opened some people's eyes here, even if they are not posting actively.

 

[bavaria]

In keeping with the theme of our discussions, here's an interesting article on the perceptions of people around the world, in relation to their own situations. IMO, the title is unnecessarily click-baity, so please push past that to give it a read:
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/top...art-poll-suggests/ar-BB18qDYd?ocid=spartanntp

The survey, which involved participants from 14 countries including the U.K., France, Italy, Australia, Japan and South Korea, also found a majority of respondents believe the global spread of COVID-19 could have been mitigated with stronger international co-operation.

"A 14-country median of 59 per cent say that if their country had co-operated more with other countries, the number of coronavirus cases would have been lower in their country. In comparison, a median of 36 per cent say such co-operation would have been futile in reducing cases."

That sentiment was especially strong in Europe, which was hit hard by the virus in the earliest days of the pandemic, particularly in Italy and Spain.

I believe that this relates directly to some of the discussion here. (Too often I see 'Europe' used by non-Europeans, which would be the same as lumping the countries of North and South America into 'the Americas'. There are so many variables that we cannot be considered one entity)

My experiences from last December are that this was seen as an 'Asian' thing like bird flu, until it really started to impact the United States. I well remember the day that I said to my partner in November or ealy December that people were reportedly dropping dead or almost dead in the streets of Wuhan, and that this could be a SARS-like situation. Even then, SARS was mainly an Asia/Canada experience.

It's frustrating that people tend to ignore things until they are impacted. How often I read here that people ignore the news (in this thread as well, from a Canadian poster) I understand that the western media can be overwhelming, but this has shown that we are tied together globally, and we cannot ignore what is happening elsewhere with the attitude of 'that would never happen here'.

 

[BadPinkTink]

The Irish Health Department have just released todays numbers

93 cases; 0 deaths
5-day average: 111.4
In hospital: 29
In ICU: 5

 

[bavaria]

News updates from Germany after a big meeting today with Mrs Merkel and the state leaders
- fines for not wearing mask in required places (shops, transit) will be 50 Euro, but Bavaria will keep theirs at 250 Euro (we fine 1,000 Euro for feeding pigeons...) Saxon-Anhalt didn't want a fine as cases are low there and they dropped mask requirement long ago
- the Berlin police banned a planned anti-COVID restriction protest for Saturday. This has a long history in Berlin of police and protestors, and goes against the Basic Law. However Mrs Merkel says she understands the police standpoint, but the protest organizers are free to file complaints for violation of the Basic Law in this case
- the free testing will continue until at least 15th September for returning travellers, and until at least 1st October in Bavaria (we have later school holidays) AND we can still get tested for free when returning from non-risk areas. This means that my plan to be tested during my travels in the coming weeks can continue Also the quarantine from risk countries will not be 14 days, but test after 5 and then review if further quarantine required.

All seems very sensible to me!

The possibility of free corona tests for travelers from non-risk areas is to expire at the end of the summer holidays on September 15. Bavaria will stick to the free tests for returnees from non-risk areas until at least October 1st. In the Free State, returnees from non-risk areas can continue to be tested for the corona virus without having to pay for it

Returning travelers from risk areas should soon be able to end a 14-day corona quarantine at the earliest with a test from the fifth day after return. This regulation should apply from October 1, 2020 if possible.

https://www.welt.de/politik/deutsch...uen-Corona-Regeln-die-Sie-kennen-muessen.html

 

[MommyinHonduras]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.dw...coronavirus-pigeon-feeding-permits/a-53355238
So @bavaria did you see this one? It seems even the pigeons got some relief during Covid. I had to look up about the law after reading your post and this article was at the top.

 

[Aladora]

The Irish Health Department have just released todays numbers

93 cases; 0 deaths
5-day average: 111.4
In hospital: 29
In ICU: 5

The numbers for Ireland seem right on par with the numbers for British Columbia, we even have similar populations.

Updated yesterday afternoon.
62 new cases, 0 deaths
In hospital: 21
In ICU: 7

 

[bavaria]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.dw...coronavirus-pigeon-feeding-permits/a-53355238
So @bavaria did you see this one? It seems even the pigeons got some relief during Covid. I had to look up about the law after reading your post and this article was at the top.

Well, I learned something, thank you! Some cities are charging 5000 Euro, not just 1000 Euro as penalty...

I didn't know that they had allowed that which is interesting, considering that the rules went into place to prevent the disease spread by pigeons.