Davids DVC: Rental reimbursement or rescheduling?

[Grumpy by Birth]

... more and more I see him as Daddy Warbucks or Scrooge McDuck sitting on his pile of cash laughing at the poor renters !

I've just been through the process with them from the owner side. Under force majeure, we'd agree to pay back the money already given to us by David's. Which may be issue enough to make you not want to do business with them. But the parts about extra costs (travel, finding comparable accommodations, etc) only apply if we are responsible for the room not being provided.

# 15 is my problem - included but not limited to - talk about leaving a door open on that one
Keep in mind - he stated as an owner I would be under terms of my original contract - but he slips this in AND he has stated it is the DVC Owners who were responsible for the closing of the resorts during - can’t be trusted !

This would be my concern. Some have argued that DVC closing was technically the owner's responsibility. Even though the owner didn't personally cancel, they were unable to honor the contract to provide a reservation (not just the points used for the reservation). Owners could be held responsible for future closures even though it's DVC and not the owner cancelling the reservation.

 

[SherylLC]

My question is if you are a renter and the owner cancels your reservations who goes after the owner for restitution? Is this spelled out in the contract? Does David reimburse the renter and he sues the owners for the room ,airfare and other expenses? Or does he tell the renter they have to sue? I would like to see how this would play out especially of the owner is not based in the U.S. even if it was in the U.S. this would most likely exceed the limits of small claims courts. Also what recourse would you have with an overseas owner who may have even sold his timeshare?

That is an excellent question and it illustrates beautifully what a lot of people lose sight of.

If an owner cancels the reservation they will have broken their contract with David's and David's would pursue (and rightfully be given, I hope) restitution. Now David's would work with the renter to determine what restitution would be but the onus would remain with David's to pursue a settlement. The renter would not have the right to do this because there is no agreement between owner and renter. There are TWO agreements-one between owner and David's, and a second independent agreement between David's and the renter.

That's my understanding and if I've got this wrong, someone please jump in...

 

[Bearval]

That is an excellent question and it illustrates beautifully what a lot of people lose sight of.

If an owner cancels the reservation they will have broken their contract with David's and David's would pursue (and rightfully be given, I hope) restitution. Now David's would work with the renter to determine what restitution would be but the onus would remain with David's to pursue a settlement. The renter would not have the right to do this because there is no agreement between owner and renter. There are TWO agreements-one between owner and David's, and a second independent agreement between David's and the renter.

That's my understanding and if I've got this wrong, someone please jump

That is an excellent question and it illustrates beautifully what a lot of people lose sight of.

If an owner cancels the reservation they will have broken their contract with David's and David's would pursue (and rightfully be given, I hope) restitution. Now David's would work with the renter to determine what restitution would be but the onus would remain with David's to pursue a settlement. The renter would not have the right to do this because there is no agreement between owner and renter. There are TWO agreements-one between owner and David's, and a second independent agreement between David's and the renter.

That's my understanding and if I've got this wrong, someone please jump in...

Where are you getting the information from that David's will pursue restitution? Are you quoting it from the contract or are you assuming that is what they would do? Remember, the recent track record they have has a lot to be desired.

 

[Sandisw]

I had thought someone mentioned keeping their original contract on the owner's side..? Is he no longer doing that?

I finally sent the email asking mine to be tossed into the olympic sized pool of dedicated reservations. I've been assuming the money is lost since WDW is not showing any signs of closing again, even going so far as to announce even shorter hours, so if it doesn't work oh well. At least I did SOMETHING to try to mitigate losses.

He says you are but the agreement with the new renter, which you become a part of and has your name as a party to the contract states you agree to new terms that are not in any of the old ones,

So, ultimately, you are entering into something that could make you liable regardless of what he is saying if there is a closure down the road.

 

[SherylLC]

To Bearval:
Where am I getting information that David's will pursue restitution? I'm not saying he "would," I'm surmising he would be legally entitled to. That's only my understanding since as an owner I entered into a contract with him. My understanding is that the renter has no standing to come after me if I did something dishonest since nothing in my contract with David's specifies any specific renter. Where I get fuzzy is David being an INTERMEDIARY. I'm not sure how that affects the legal ties/relationship between owner and renter.

Anyone with thoughts? A little help here?

 

[Bearval]

To Bearval:
Where am I getting information that David's will pursue restitution? I'm not saying he "would," I'm surmising he would be legally entitled to. That's only my understanding since as an owner I entered into a contract with him. My understanding is that the renter has no standing to come after me if I did something dishonest since nothing in my contract with David's specifies any specific renter. Where I get fuzzy is David being an INTERMEDIARY. I'm not sure how that affects the legal ties/relationship between owner and renter.

Anyone with thoughts? A little help here?

 

[Bearval]

As an intermediary they do have a responsibility to ensure at the time of the contract the product exists. They do this by not sending you any monies until you send them the confirmation number of the reservation. Good luck on assuming they will take legal action on your behalf of you are a renter if the owner then cancels. I would want the process of the intermediary having to reimburse me written into the contract.

 

[Deb & Bill]

Daddy Warbucks !! Sitting on his cash ! He’s not helping anyone but himself - I’ve found his staff to be rude and very demanding since this covid started on both the renter and owner sides since I’ve had horses in both races !
ymmv - but I for one am so done with him ! I have one rental checking in 9/5 I hope to be paid but if not so be it because as far as I’m concerned he can keep the 3 30% he owes me and we can all walk away - which I’ve told him in writing which he promptly ignored - strong arm tactics don’t work with me and I told he mgr that!

That's gonna sink his yacht.

 

[Grumpy by Birth]

He says you are but the agreement with the new renter, which you become a part of and has your name as a party to the contract states you agree to new terms that are not in any of the old ones,

So, ultimately, you are entering into something that could make you liable regardless of what he is saying if there is a closure down the road.

The closures due to this pandemic shined a light on the flawed nature of separate contract between the owner/David's and David's/renter. I see a similar (perhaps worse) flaw in owners being told they are still under the terms of the old contract, but the renter's (new) contract says the owner is liable.

How can this be in the renter's contract without the owner consenting to entering into those terms of the agreement?

And how can the renter be assured that the owner is liable for their losses when the owner has not agreed to that?

That's gonna sink his yacht.

 

[Dean Marino]

So - a little off topic. What WE did....
DVC owners, BRV, WDW will rob us of 147 points by 3-31-2021.

We THOUGHT "rent em". Then we saw the legal mess of 2020. We gave up, and went out of the box.

We have DONATED those points to a lovely family within driving distance of WDW. Mom, Dad, and two wonderful daughters.

DVC will not get these points. We will not get sued. And another Family will be very happy . I am sleeping better now .

 

[Sandisw]

The closures due to this pandemic shined a light on the flawed nature of separate contract between the owner/David's and David's/renter. I see a similar (perhaps worse) flaw in owners being told they are still under the terms of the old contract, but the renter's (new) contract says the owner is liable. How can this be in the renter's contract without the owner consenting to entering into those terms of the agreement?


View attachment 518788

Yup. This is why it’s not as simple as an owner changing things to help original renters who can’t or don’t want to go, regardless of reason.

Changing a name IS basically doing a new rental...and while I feel for renters who lose in this situation, owners also need to be comfortable with what they could be stuck doing if resorts closed, that they currently don’t have to do.

 

[WDWEPCOT]

I agree I tried to help my renters then David got involved and I just can’t afford that risk ! He’s all about screwing the Owners while he does the renters too ! I didn’t think he could make matters worse but I was so wrong - he couldn’t write a contract correctly the first time and obviously he’s still using the Three Stooges for this round of contracts because telling me as an Owner I’m under my original contract terms then putting me on the new terms is dirty pool! No thanks I’ll pass
Good Day and Good Bye!!

 

[Grumpy by Birth]

I agree I tried to help my renters then David got involved and I just can’t afford that risk ! He’s all about screwing the Owners while he does the renters too ! I didn’t think he could make matters worse but I was so wrong - he couldn’t write a contract correctly the first time and obviously he’s still using the Three Stooges for this round of contracts because telling me as an Owner I’m under my original contract terms then putting me on the new terms is dirty pool! No thanks I’ll pass
Good Day and Good Bye!!

 

[WDWEPCOT]

You read my mind !!

 

[Mumof4mice]

So - a little off topic. What WE did....
DVC owners, BRV, WDW will rob us of 147 points by 3-31-2021.

We THOUGHT "rent em". Then we saw the legal mess of 2020. We gave up, and went out of the box.

We have DONATED those points to a lovely family within driving distance of WDW. Mom, Dad, and two wonderful daughters.

DVC will not get these points. We will not get sued. And another Family will be very happy . I am sleeping better now .

A lovely gift for the lucky family, and the best outcome out of the bad situation!

How did you find the recipients?

 

[robinb]

So - a little off topic. What WE did....
DVC owners, BRV, WDW will rob us of 147 points by 3-31-2021.

We THOUGHT "rent em". Then we saw the legal mess of 2020. We gave up, and went out of the box.

We have DONATED those points to a lovely family within driving distance of WDW. Mom, Dad, and two wonderful daughters.

DVC will not get these points. We will not get sued. And another Family will be very happy . I am sleeping better now .

That is awesome! You are very kind .

 

[quandrea]

So - a little off topic. What WE did....
DVC owners, BRV, WDW will rob us of 147 points by 3-31-2021.

We THOUGHT "rent em". Then we saw the legal mess of 2020. We gave up, and went out of the box.

We have DONATED those points to a lovely family within driving distance of WDW. Mom, Dad, and two wonderful daughters.

DVC will not get these points. We will not get sued. And another Family will be very happy . I am sleeping better now .

This is my plan as well. I’m reconciled to losing 289 banked points come November 2021. If I can’t use them, I plan on gifting them to friends who can travel. I’ll never rent points again, especially not through David’s. I’ve watched this saga unfold since March. It’s August now and the whole thing is still a mess.

 

[lawboy2001]

The closures due to this pandemic shined a light on the flawed nature of separate contract between the owner/David's and David's/renter. I see a similar (perhaps worse) flaw in owners being told they are still under the terms of the old contract, but the renter's (new) contract says the owner is liable.

How can this be in the renter's contract without the owner consenting to entering into those terms of the agreement?

And how can the renter be assured that the owner is liable for their losses when the owner has not agreed to that?


View attachment 518788

I think David's has a lot of different contacts now. I rented a reservation to a new renter, and noticed that the new contact listed all three of us -- me; renters; Davids -- as parties. And the contact said nothing about owner liability if there is a new closure, so I don't know where that is coming from, unless there are a variety of contacts David's uses.

Since the rental was only a week and a half in the future, I wasn't worried about 'another closure' in any case though....

 

[Minniesgal]

He says you are but the agreement with the new renter, which you become a part of and has your name as a party to the contract states you agree to new terms that are not in any of the old ones,

So, ultimately, you are entering into something that could make you liable regardless of what he is saying if there is a closure down the road.

This and the fact the trust has gone..

 

[SleeplessInTO]

The contract with David’s (as an owner) was a mess. I had a dedicated Feb reservation to rent out but his team could not give me a clear answer on this force majeure clause. They talked about me being on the hook to return the initial 70% if the parks were closed (even if DVC resorts still open), if there are border restrictions for non-US or non-Floridian travellers, etc and then contradicted themselves in the next email.

The conflicting responses made me too uneasy to deal with David’s. I don’t want to screw over any renters. But they are obviously inconsistent in their messaging and there’s a wide gap in expectations about who is responsible and for what in different scenarios. I’d prefer to be honest and upfront about what each party is agreeing to.

For any other owners in a similar situation I’ve been looking at RCI as an option.