Davids DVC: Rental reimbursement or rescheduling?

[Sandisw]

Yes, if you had held out for additional compensation I would indeed have judged you to reside on a lower moral rung.

This is a difficult time for everyone. DVC members, renters and David's business. Renters are screwed. They are stuck with reservations they cannot use and in contracts that do not allow for cancellations. The BEST they can do is take a loss and re-rent their reservations. The LEAST we can do is help them without demanding more money. As for your 30% balance, do you think there is a better or worse chance that it will be there is every owner bleeds David's dry with change fees?


I am frustrated that DVC members act like everything is like it used to be when they could rent their points through David's and then wash their hands of their renters. I know that was an advantage of David's that you didn't have to worry or think about your renters. I swear that some of this is about punishing David's, but the renters are real people who are in a bind.

I prefer to be kind to and look out for the renters rather than demanding more money to change a reservation, YYMV.

And owners are real people too and I don’t agree that expecting some of what David’s is charging the renter to make the adjustments is wrong, When resorts were closed it was different, but yeah, I think if a renter is deciding not to go for whatever reason, they should also be happy and understanding about an owner who is willing to make changes as well and be willing to give a small token for that option. Road goes both ways.

 

[Bing Showei]

David’s wants to keep the original renter on the hook with a voucher while collecting a new rental fee from any lead name change.

This. A million times, this. It’s a point worth underscoring as I think those who don’t appreciate what David’s is actually doing is mistakenly seeing their endeavors as a “we’re-all in-this-together/united-we-stand” effort. If that is one’s starting point, the logical progression is that Owners need to also do their part.

This is not what is happening.

David’s are not being altruistic. It’s a calculated move to shift risk to everyone else but David’s. It’s a vehicle to generate liquidity; converting an already-paid-for reservation into an IOU and second booking on the same points. Renters risk holding onto a worthless voucher. Is it better than a non-refundable cancellation? Sure. But at the cost of owners being asked to assume new risks/terms far less favorable than the previous agreement. Regardless of what David’s are saying to owners, their message to new renters could not be more explicit: if the reservation becomes unavailable for ANY reason, David’s are off the hook, the onus is on the owners to issue a refund to the renter and David’s hands are washed of it. They send these terms and conveniently now copy owners on that same communication... in case there’s any question down the line that the owner was aware of this bit of language.

It feels like those who perpetuate the notion that David’s is allowing their non-refundable/non-cancelable rentals to suddenly be exchanged for a voucher are doing this out of some newly discovered empathy given the pandemic is prone to misplace any sense of obligation on the part of DVC owners. I would argue that owners who agree to the new terms are supporting a system that transfers all risk from the mediator to the owner and provides renters with a false sense of being made whole.

Everyone can agree that renters are in a bind. They are without a doubt the most risk-exposed out of any party. But pre-pandemic, David’s would’ve told these same renters to go pound sand if they aren’t able to go for whatever reason. Instead now, under cash crunch, David’s suddenly found religion and are so sympathetic to the plight of others?

Maybe. Or maybe they are taking advantage of renter desperation to kick the can down the road, double book points and shift the risk to owners.

The challenge for a lot of owners is that had David’s shown some good a good faith effort from the start to honestly shoulder some of the risk (e.g., offered to pass returned Owners monies directly to the renter, removed language that would screw renters with vouchers in a second forced closure, removed language that would screw owners in a re-rented forced closure, etc.), owners wouldn’t be questioning if it’s worth putting in any effort, especially if it means being left holding the bag as David‘s ropes in a second rental on the owner’s points.

 

[Dixie1337]

I don't really understand why everyone is ignoring the fact that renters are being offered cash refunds less a $3 per point rebooking fee on rebooked rentals. That's not a voucher. It's not 100% of your money back either but it's better than a kick in the butt which is really all you're entitled to under the contract.

 

[Sandisw]

I don't really understand why everyone is ignoring the fact that renters are being offered cash refunds less a $3 per point rebooking fee on rebooked rentals. That's not a voucher. It's not 100% of your money back either but it's better than a kick in the butt which is really all you're entitled to under the contract.

Exactly. Renters really are the ones who are asking for some level of help. Pandemic aside, renters always carried the most risk and asking the owner to agree to new terms for what would amountto a small $2.00/point fee is more than fair to them. I mean, someone renting 100 points who paid $1900...gets $1600 back from a non refundable contract when technically services are being delivered.

 

[WDWEPCOT]

can someone please explain his process for re renting your cancelled points ?
say your renter took a voucher and you offered to re rent your points -David’s has stated you Will Not be subject to the new terms and you will receive the the difference in what he charges now versus when you originally rented - but since you will have a brand new renter how are you Not subjected to the new terms??

 

[VivalaDisney]

I don't really understand why everyone is ignoring the fact that renters are being offered cash refunds less a $3 per point rebooking fee on rebooked rentals. That's not a voucher. It's not 100% of your money back either but it's better than a kick in the butt which is really all you're entitled to under the contract.

Plus those who, in their hurry to attack owners trying to break even by recovering funds on a rapidly devaluing asset, are ignoring the renters who have received FULL refunds via a credit card chargeback or insurance.

 

[SherylLC]

..

can someone please explain his process for re renting your cancelled points ?
say your renter took a voucher and you offered to re rent your points -David’s has stated you Will Not be subject to the new terms and you will receive the the difference in what he charges now versus when you originally rented - but since you will have a brand new renter how are you Not subjected to the new terms??

I can share my experience. David's has asked me to change the reservation to a new renter when the original one wanted to cancel/postpone the one they had. I'v done this three times. He offered "as a thank you" to me a $2 per point as a "courtesy" since by contract terms owners are not compelled to do this. When the poop hit the fan with closures, owners were forbidden by David's from contacting renters directly (owners have contact info for renters when they make the reservation, but renters do not) or else be in breach of contract and subject to prosecution blah-blah even though a majority of owners on this thread were more than willing to do what ever they could.

So David's, who just wanted to keep things under control, I get it, would take cancellation requests as they could handle them and sent owners change requests where applicable. I assume (I do not know for sure) if the reservation is cancelled the original renter gets a voucher...but as I said, I am not clear on this. So what happened to me as an owner, when I rescheduled the reservation, I got my $2/point and was cc'd on an email to the renter with a copy of THEIR CONTRACT WITH DAVID attached which stated if there was another closure, act of God, etc. that David's was 100% off the hook and the owner was 100% liable. At the time, I wrote David's and said NO WAY I was going to take on that risk and he wrote back saying that I shouldn't worry that I was not liable as I had not signed the new contract, etc. I can't believe I accepted that line of baloney! Of course, in the event of another closure, the renter is going to come after me! Why wouldn't they since they do not know that I never agreed to the same contract that they did.

Thank you, Bing Showei for reminding me of the history.

Thank you, Robinb, for reminding me what and who is nice and not nice.

I was going to reschedule this weekend for the latest renter, but I just emailed David and said that I can't take on the risk. I will stand by the contract I signed.

Edited to add: when David's sent the three new contracts, he cc'd me, not BCC'd, so if something goes awry the renters now have my contact info! So much for the privacy David's promised! I also believe he probably cc'd owners so he could pass the liability on to the owners. He'll probably argue since we knew about it, no matter that we didn't sign, it's maybe considered an electronic acceptance and the contract stands. Just guessing!

 

[spinchy]

Exactly. Renters really are the ones who are asking for some level of help. Pandemic aside, renters always carried the most risk and asking the owner to agree to new terms for what would amountto a small $2.00/point fee is more than fair to them. I mean, someone renting 100 points who paid $1900...gets $1600 back from a non refundable contract when technically services are being delivered.

I wonder if part of the reason for Davids to be offering anything to renters now that the resort is open is because "services being delivered" could still be debatable. Those coming from other countries (or even some parts of the US) didn't have access to the resorts due to travel restrictions. Do you think this new willingness to try to make changes could be because he's afraid more credit cards might decide in favour of the renter still?

 

[SherylLC]

I wonder if part of the reason for Davids to be offering anything to renters now that the resort is open is because "services being delivered" could still be debatable. Those coming from other countries (or even some parts of the US) didn't have access to the resorts due to travel restrictions. Do you think this new willingness to try to make changes could be because he's afraid more credit cards might decide in favour of the renter still?

Well, under new contracts OWNERS are liable not only for cost of reservation but also expenses (airfare, new accommodations, etc.). He has no reason not to entice renters into a new contract.

 

[Sandisw]

I wonder if part of the reason for Davids to be offering anything to renters now that the resort is open is because "services being delivered" could still be debatable. Those coming from other countries (or even some parts of the US) didn't have access to the resorts due to travel restrictions. Do you think this new willingness to try to make changes could be because he's afraid more credit cards might decide in favour of the renter still?

I think he could be but again, a travel restriction doesn’t amend or take away from the contract signed, So, strictly speaking, the room reservation is there,

Normally, that type of issue would be covered under travel insurance but some are having trouble as its COVID, On the other hand, maybe those under the restriction can file a claim on those grounds?

I am sure he wouldn’t want chargebacks, but honestly, I think with resorts open, he would win as nothing in the contract is being breached with the room still booked,

These comments are not meant to be harsh toward a renter, but they chose to rent for the discount and assumed the risk. IMO, I bet most renters have no issue in giving owners the extra if it means they have a chance to get the bulk of their funds returned...knowing It’s them asking for the exception,

 

[Sandisw]

..

I can share my experience. David's has asked me to change the reservation to a new renter when the original one wanted to cancel/postpone the one they had. I'v done this three times. He offered "as a thank you" to me a $2 per point as a "courtesy" since by contract terms owners are not compelled to do this. When the poop hit the fan with closures, owners were forbidden by David's from contacting renters directly (owners have contact info for renters when they make the reservation, but renters do not) or else be in breach of contract and subject to prosecution blah-blah even though a majority of owners on this thread were more than willing to do what ever they could.

So David's, who just wanted to keep things under control, I get it, would take cancellation requests as they could handle them and sent owners change requests where applicable. I assume (I do not know for sure) if the reservation is cancelled the original renter gets a voucher...but as I said, I am not clear on this. So what happened to me as an owner, when I rescheduled the reservation, I got my $2/point and was cc'd on an email to the renter with a copy of THEIR CONTRACT WITH DAVID attached which stated if there was another closure, act of God, etc. that David's was 100% off the hook and the owner was 100% liable. At the time, I wrote David's and said NO WAY I was going to take on that risk and he wrote back saying that I shouldn't worry that I was not liable as I had not signed the new contract, etc. I can't believe I accepted that line of baloney! Of course, in the event of another closure, the renter is going to come after me! Why wouldn't they since they do not know that I never agreed to the same contract that they did.

Thank you, Bing Showei for reminding me of the history.

Thank you, Robinb, for reminding me what and who is nice and not nice.

I was going to reschedule this weekend for the latest renter, but I just emailed David and said that I can't take on the risk. I will stand by the contract I signed.

Edited to add: when David's sent the new contracts, he cc'd owners not BCC'd so if something goes awry the renters now have my contact info! So much for the privacy David's promised! I also believe he probably cc'd owners so he could pass the liability on to the owners. He'll probably argue since we knew about it, no matter that we didn't sign, it's maybe considered an electronic acceptance and the contract stands. Just guessing!

This is exactly why I too would have been weary. He can say you are not liable, but if the new rental contract with your name and the renter says you are, you are. There is never an actual signature involved in his transactions.

I am glad you made the decision that works best for you.

 

[WDWEPCOT]

Thank you for this I have been pondering this and I just don’t believe a word they say ! We will be on a permanent break as I’ve made it crystal clear I Will Not be under the terms of his new contract
He can go pound sand

 

[New Mouse]

To my surpise, David's informed me today they had a new renter for a stay due to commence in 9 days. I was slightly dismayed to realise they did not try to obtain payment from the new renter until after I'd made the change. I've had issues with David's not receiving payment before so if that happens in the current case after I've gone to the trouble of calling member services I'll be mightily p*ssed!

Hes selling at 9 a point so not overly surprised. My questions is 9 a point....2 a point goes to the owner...7 a point isnt covering his loss if he offered a voucher to soneone who paid 20 a point.

 

[Sandisw]

Hes selling at 9 a point so not overly surprised. My questions is 9 a point....2 a point goes to the owner...7 a point isnt covering his loss if he offered a voucher to soneone who paid 20 a point.

Are we sure that those reservations being rented that low are giving the original renter more than what he got?

 

[New Mouse]

Are we sure that those reservations being rented that low are giving the original renter more than what he got?

Well hes not giving anyone back cash...i had not heard of anyone getting a voucher for less than what they paid... so im not sure.

 

[Sandisw]

Well hes not giving anyone back cash...i had not heard of anyone getting a voucher for less than what they paid... so im not sure.

There is a post a few back that stated some renters now are being given that option. Who knows though because the policies with his company have changed many times over.

 

[Dixie1337]

Well hes not giving anyone back cash...i had not heard of anyone getting a voucher for less than what they paid... so im not sure.

oh come on

 

[starry_solo]

I would think that the reservations that are being lowered are for people who want a cash refund back. My friend lowered the price of hers so she could at least get some money back. I thought the voucher was dependent on whether the reservation was rented out. So, if the reservation wasn't rented out, the original renter got nothing. But if it is rented out at a discounted price, they got the voucher for the discounted price, not the full price they paid. And if they wanted cash back, they would get it at the discounted price, minus the $3 restocking fee.

 

[Spark65]

He can go pound sand

I like you!

 

[WDWEPCOT]

Thank you ! I’m usually more colorful but I don’t want to be kicked off the DIS I love the DIS
There is no love between David and me - more and more I see him as Daddy Warbucks or Scrooge McDuck sitting on his pile of cash laughing at the poor renters !