DCA’s Latest Gimmick

[Another Voice]

It’s another fiscal quarter and so we get another attempt at CPR on California Adventure. This time it’s “Disney’s Rockin’ the Bay”, a concert series that will be performed on a stage built in the lake in front of the Paradise Pier section of the park.

For slightly over a month, different bands will play two sets a day. The series kicks off with The Beach Boys and then includes The Temptations, Herman’s Hermits, The Turtles, The Buckinghams, The Four Tops, The Commodores, The Fifth Dimension, Paul Revere and the Raiders, and other bands. It will end with America.

What’s most interesting is that the promotion is not aimed at bringing in new guests. Instead, it is an attempt to increase the hours Annual Pass holders spend in the park. Attempts at expanding the park’s guest base have all but been given up. For the first time DCA’s future as a separately ticketed gate is now openly discussed around the company.

Annual Passes are being heavily promoted in radio and print ads throughout Southern California. This group already accounts for close to 50% of turnstile clicks on many days, some days are even higher. Some current thinking seems to suggest that DCA will continue to cater that demographic – which will allow Disney to focus more on shopping and meals. Special Events, such as the concert series, will be used in place of new or revamped attractions.

It should be noted that the neighboring Orange County Fair has booked Huey Lewis and The News, Indigo Girls, The B-52s, Keith Urban, Linda Rondstadt, Weird Al, Collin Raye and Lynard Skynard among others.

 

[larry_poppins]

This seems to be standard operating procedure for Disney. They are no longer interested in being in the attraction business. Instead they just hire acts to whip us some business among the locals and the Disney obsessed fans who visit whenever a new churro cart is opened. Unfortunately, I fall in the latter group!

Look at the success of Blast on both coasts. Now there is a new Shockwave show at EPCOT. Shockwave may eventually find a home at DCA. Look at how important music groups are to the FLower Power events at EPCOT. Even the Food and Wine event gives the public no new attraction just an excuse to buy expensive designer meals. Unless you just want to snack around the Lake which too adds up to an expensive meal.

100 years of magic! No real attractions. Just a museum and 4 parades. Ho-hum!

Still I will be visiting in July for 5 days. I should note I am a DVC member, and under the Pressler regime I spend practically nothing on gifts and merchandise since I am saving for Tokyo.

I am really looking forward to my visit to Tokyo Disney next year. It has been a long time since I have been to a theme park that tried to exceed my expectations instead of lower them.

Sincerely,

Larry

 

[DisneyKidds]

Rockin the Bay at DCA, Flower Power at Epcot......

Anyone else think that Disney might create more stir with these events if they stopped reviving half dead bands to perform. I like a lot of the music from these 'older' bands, but come on.

I know, I know (how often have I had to say that ) it would require them to spend more dough, and that would erode the bottom line so they won't do it, and that is the downfall of Disney, yada, yada, yada. (No thanks, I don't want that seat in Car #3 )

But do you think they have even thought of the idea and nixed it because of the spreadsheets? Or do they really think people want Herman's Hermits. I like the oldies, too - but lets get into the 90's at least (current bands would be too distant a dream ).

p.s. Scoop - how long do you think it will be before one of those guys from another car says 'people don't want to pay $50 to look at topiaries. They don't have the time, inclination or predisposition to stop and look at the topiaries so you shouldn't give them to em'..........???? How many other Car #3ers rhetoric can I quote .

 

[larry_poppins]

I am not sure I explained myself clearly.

I enjoy value added events like topiaries, bands, Blast, shows, parades. I have an annual pass afterall. It just seems to me that more and more this is all that Disney is offering to their guests.

As AV said they are just trying to bring in their AP guests to spend more hours and dollars in the parks. I don't see them committing themselves to building new E tickets to bring in guests who will pay $50 for a day. That is why I say they no longer want to be in the attraction business; they prefer to run gift stores and restaurants and hotels.

Just my 2 cents.

Larry

 

[raidermatt]

Taken by itself, the adding of concerts is a plus. Using older bands at PP fits the "theme", and also won't draw so many people that a crowd control problem would erupt. The music really should add to the atmosphere.

Also, taken by itself, there is nothing wrong with trying to increase the amount of time AP'ers spend in DCA by adding "stuff". After all, the idea for any park is to bring in new guests, and keep the ones you have happy and spending time (and money) there. Besides, while the concerts' main purpose may not be to bring in new guests, certainly they will bring in a few.

For the first time DCA’s future as a separately ticketed gate is now openly discussed around the company.

If true, that's too bad. There's little doubt that ToT is going to get some people through the turnstiles. How many and how long they will stay is debateable, but there will be some more clicks, nonetheless. So I can understand using something like concerts to help the situation until ToT (and Flick's) are open. But if AV's statement is true, they are essentially "giving up without a fight", which is too bad. (Also bad news for a 3rd gate, but maybe that's best until we get some new blood...)

 

[Captain Crook]

True to form, I agree with Scoop...Something for nothing is a no-brainer and a winner. These concerts are fun and add to the air of festivity at Epcot and probably will at DCA as well.

I agree that if this is the 'end all' that it'll be a pretty sad commentary, but it won't be. Sometime there'll be incentive to try again to make the park a big success and something else wll be tried and the good news is we will have had concerts added and ToT that we know of. It'll take time, but eventually it'll become a going concern. And yes Voice, it's sad that it has to be this way. It woud have been far better to have really tried to push the envelope than go this route...The difference is I think a park like AK pushes the theme park envelope, you do not...

 

[Another Voice]

Actually, I thought of ending my post with a comment that some of Car #1 would immediately declare that watching the embalmed corpse of some 1960’s novelty band lip synching to cover tunes in front of a Ferries Wheel would be “the biggest and bestest of all Disney Magic! More Disney Magic than Ever Before!!!!!!!! And if you don’t pay for Disney Magic you’re nothing but a cave dwelling troll!!!! Isn’t it magical!!!!!!”

Glad I’m not surprised. And I can't help but think that these exact same acts were to show up at Islands of Adventure we're hear screams of laughter and scorn coming from the front cars. Ahh, beyond the power of the brand.

Just because something is presented does not mean that people should be obligated to like it or feel obligated to pay for it. Fifty bucks for something I don’t want to see isn’t a value – and dumping on even more stuff I don’t want to see doesn’t add value either.

Everyone keeps using the Disney-is-business rationalization to explain away the company’s actions, yet no one wants to look at Disney-is-business from a normal customer’s point of view. And paying for uninteresting sights is EXACTLY what has created the problems at California Adventure. No matter how many times you tell the public the stupid or ungrateful for not seeing the “magic” that you see.

The concert series isn’t adding value to DCA. What people want is a Disney quality theme park, not a bunch of bands that couldn’t get a booking that weekend on the county fair circuit. Management is simply refusing to make any of the tough, grown-up decisions that have to be made to save the situation.

Things do not work themselves out on their own. There is no "eventually it'll become a going concern" magic. Unless Captain, sir, you've just recently taken a class at the Disney Institiute that gave you some particular insight?

 

[Captain Crook]

Brutal again, eh Voice?

No where has anyone insinuated that this is "the biggest and bestest' of anything. You'd best check your reading glass perscription or is it in between the lines reading that you're best at?

No rationalizing here, and in case you didn't read it, I clearly said that it is sad that DCA was built the way it was and if this (oldies concerts) thing is the 'end-all' that too will be sad. That seems pretty clear.

Now I do think DCA will become a going concern...It may be 10 years, but it will eventualy get there. Why do I say that? Because Disney is still a going concern under Eisner (how many years at the helm, Voice?) and although there are certainly low points to discuss, Disney is still going. Hell, if I believed that from here on it was just a slippery slide down an icy hill I'd give up as you have appeared to do...But why are we still discussing it?

One more thing, I certainly would applaud Universal making any moves that people enjoy. Their Halloween celebration is supposed to be great and clearly seems more successful than Disney's. I don't root for Universal to fail, heck Mr. Curling just turned me on to a Florida Resident two year pass that my family just may be buying... awaiting the return of my daughter (who visited IOA today) for her report...

 

[raidermatt]

We seem to be having some trouble communicating with our "shades of grey"...

Bringing the bands in DOES absolutely add value to DCA. So does adding an awesome and creative new attraction. So does putting in a bench.

The question is how MUCH value does it add? If an incredible new attraction added 10,000 units of value, and a bench added 1, where do the bands fall in? 100? 500? Who's to say exactly, but its apparent from your original post that mgmt believes this to be a small number, and I haven't seen anybody disagree with that.

My only point is that, taken by itself, there is nothing wrong with adding something that only has a small amount of value. Its like adding a fountain, or planting a tree, or adding the live show in front of Cinderella's castle... These are not bad things, and they do add value for most people.

I understand your point that DCA needs more than the 20 value points the Beach Boys will add. And I absolutely agree that the larger numbers of points that ToT and Flick's will add are still not enough to "fix" DCA. And further still, I agree that if the concert series is mgmt idea of a long-term fix, it is a BAD thing.

All I am saying is that the concerts are an added value, but that doesn't mean I think they are enough to fix the problem, or that they are an indication that management is even trying. Its just a small plus. That's it.

 

[AKemel]

As someone who is actually there, I can say that both DL and DCA are very crowded, more so DL. All statistics and promotions are interesting, but there is no lack of happiness in DCA visitors. There is seems to be interest of going from one park to another, to enjoy the best.

DL has history, has magic. DCA needs to make it and I hope it will. If it does not expand to the amount and level of quality, but in less time than he original DL did, it may live the fate of Six flags attractions with different type of guest

 

[airlarry!]

I think that the Car1 Nation missed out on the value of AV's post. I can't speak for him, but I thought he was telling us that despite all the problems in finances and especially in getting people to buy hard tix to DCA, the company has decided that instead of announcing brand new attractions to whet the public's appetite they have moved from ticket discounts to aging rock band festivals en masse.

Then there were some snickers when Larry said he was part of the group that gets excited every time a 'churro cart is opened' but lamented the fact that even in Orlando, instead of new attractions, we are getting new entertainment.

Then there was a retort that car three people don't think topiaries are worthy vacation viewings.

Hmm....

I've spent the better part of two weeks trying to show you how much car three people believe in the magic, enjoy the magic, and feel it when we go to the parks.

Whether or not the Beach Boys are playing at WDW or they are adding a new topiary to the food festival is not germane to what AV is talking about. It is about the company's philosophy in fixing problems. In the old days, you generated excitement in repeat guests by tinkering and updating and expanding the parks.

In the old days, I would read the Kim Riley guide or the Unofficial guide and check out the rumors of the new attractions to be built in the next few years. But in reality, all we know about right now are:

1. Mission Space.
2. Mickey's Philharmonic.
3. TOT in DCA.
4. Supposedly scaled down Pooh at DL.
5. -blank-

That's it. E ticket attractions just don't materialize out of thin air. AV's post isn't about the value of topiaries in your $50 ticket. Come on. It is about the lack of concrete plans for the maintenance of the magic. It has to be maintained and lovingly so.

 

[hopemax]

This topic came up over on Laughing Place, and the issue that was raised there was that the concert series only came together weeks ago and the ramifications of trying to pull this together so late.

Here's a complete list

July 13-14 The Beach Boys
July 15-17 The Temptations Review featuring Dennis Edwards
July 18-19 David Clayton-Thomas with Blood, Sweat & Tears
July 20 The Commodores
July 21-22 Herman's Hermits starring Peter Noone
July 23-25 Starship featuring Mickey Thomas
July 26-28 The 5th Dimension
July 29-31 Paul Revere and The Raiders
August 1-3 To Be Announced (TBA)
August 4-6 The Turtles featuring Flo and Eddie
August 7-8 The Buckinghams
August 9-11 TBA
August 12-14 TBA
August 15-17 The Four Tops
August 18-20 America
August 21-23 The Monkees starring Davy Jones and Micky Dolenz

While I like a few of those groups and I know my parents will enjoy more of them, I wonder what would happen if we posted the list over on the teen board? There are generations of people who are going to feel left out, and I think it's because bands from the 80's/early 90's or up and coming bands were already booked in fairs and other arenas and therefore unavailable.

Although I like the idea of a concert series, it feels "a day late and a dollar short." And it's not like no one knew attendance at theme parks, especially DCA was going to be an issue this summer (between the economy and Sept 11th).

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Does this seem cheap to anyone else but me? Maybe I have a different perspective. Several years ago (oh hell it was 14 years ago) I was a board member of a not-for-profit charity organization that schooled and housed multiply-handicapped children and adults. Anyway, we were always running things on a shoestring budget and fund raising became a fine art. One year we took it into our heads to put on a carnival, but with a twist. We would also have a concert every night of the five nights. We hired four of the list from Disney's DCA concert series.

Paul Revere and The Raiders
The Turtles featuring Flo and Eddie
The Buckinghams
Blood, Sweat & Tears (who were real jerks!!)

On the fifth night we had Bachman-Turner Overdrive. They were, by far, the most expensive, almost doubling the prices of the other bands. I wonder why Disney didn’t get them? Maybe they couldn’t afford them!


ps:Flo & Eddie were the absolute greatest guys you'd ever want to meet!!! As was Paul Revere.

 

[Another Voice]

Good, now that I have your attention….

Is not the assumption that anything automatically “adds value” to a guest’s experience without seeing the project just as much of a leap as saying something is “bad” without seeing it? What logic brings people to the conclusion that most DCA guests will like a concert series and feel that it improves DCA’s “value”?

Several people jumped from the concert line-up to flower shows, wine and food festivities and power grid draining holiday light displays? Why the assumption that they are all equal? That is the power of The Brand – the immediate leap of faith from “it’s Disney” to “it adds value”.

And that’s always been the problem with California Adventure. It relies on the perception of value rather than trying to create real value on its own. Yes, the concerts may be nice if you a) like the band and b) happen to already be in the park. But a) what if you don’t want to see two members of the Beach Boys filled in with studio musicians or b) don’t want to pay $45 bucks plus $8 parking for a 45 minute set?

The problems with California Adventure are well known. Really, they are. But there is a tremendous resistance to actually do anything about them. It is far easier to ignore them and hope they will go away. The concert series is just another example of it. It does not produce a long term asset to the park (even the stage will be temporary), it plays to the easiest to please crowd (the people already bought tickets), and it’s the safest decision to defend up the chain of command.

Far from adding value, the concert series is way of subtracting value from the park. Another band-aid instead of a fix. Short term thinking instead of long term solutions. The guests continue to avoid the place in droves, so operations continue to shrink and more continues to be taken away from the guests. That’s not adding value at all.

Disney can do better; they know how and many really want to. It’s time for people to start doing the right things instead of the easiest things.


P.S. – Anyone who witnessed the Circus “value added” events they had one year at EPCOT Center understands that not every special event is “magical”.

 

[WDW2002]

Originally posted by larry_poppins
I don't see them committing themselves to building new E tickets to bring in guests who will pay $50 for a day.

What about tower of terror, yes it is just a copy cat but it is an E ticket. Not everyone can or does go to WDW so these are new for them. I have saved for 3 years to get to make 1 trip and that will likely be the only time we get there. I guess I don't mind them briging some of the more popular WDW attractions to DLR.

 

[larry_poppins]

You are right. ToT is an E ticket! When it opens it will be the most exciting thing at DCA and will be the newest E ticket at the Disneyland Resort. Indiana Jones opened in 1990! It just seems with 6 parks in the U.S. we should know about 3 or 4 E tickets at some level of development. Instead there are 3D movies and Pooh and Mission Space, both have been watered down from what they could have been. Heck, even DCA's ToT is watered down.

Larry

 

[DisneyKidds]

Tsk, Tsk, Tsk. Can't we all just get along . I know, we do. We are all just trying to learn from one another. The strength and conviction everyone has in their point of view only adds to the value of the discussion .

I tried to stay away from the 'value' of a concert series addition to DCA. However, I did question the bands, and as several others pointed out, Disney could do better in that regard if they actually wanted to bring people in, rather than distract people who are already there. What's this, is that a Car #1 person saying such a thing? Well, yes, and no one ever said we wouldn't or couldn't.

That is the power of The Brand – the immediate leap of faith from “it’s Disney” to “it adds value”.

AV, we are not all drunk on the power of the brand. But that is neither here nor there.

The key, and potentially alarming, point in AV's post has to do with Disney giving up on DCA. If that is the case then the door to Car #1 might just swing open as we go around a corner, and hopefully I'd land in Car #2. However, that isn't happening just yet.

The concert series as 'a day late and a dollar short' only fits if you see this as all that Disney is willing to do for the park. As Matt pointed out, it is only a small plus (or maybe even a minus if you see it that way), but it is something. OK, it is only a placeholder, but an E ticket is in the works. As AKemel pointed out, there is no lack of happiness in DCA visitors - and I'll buy that from someone who is there. DCA needs time to evolve, things will happen, some major things, and a lot of minor things. I guess the problem I see is that some people spend all their time being disappointed in EVERYTHING, and in doing so they lose sight of the fact that there is an EVERTHING, and quite a lot of it.

 

[Another Voice]

The “it’s something” tact has been tried since DCA first swung open it’s gates. There was the Electrical Parade, then ‘Millionaire’, then it was kids in free, then it was adults at 1/3 off, then it was ‘Luminaria’, then it was free to all annual passes….

None of those either put a dent in the attendance levels or did anything to correct the fundamental problems with the park. Worse, the operations are now shrinking faster than attendance to make up some of the lost money on the gimmicks. Now it’s concerts, soon it will be ‘Flick’, next year ‘Tower’. I really don’t see a lot of chance for a different outcome.

And yes there is tremendous unhappiness among the DCA crowd. Last summer there were days when thousands of passes to Disneyland were given to DCA guests. That flow has been reduced by opening up park hopping to all but single day tickets – and the fact that the park’s reputation is so bad very few locals are going to see it. Without Park Hopping the park would pull in fewer than 2,000 guests a day (according to one rumor).

‘Tower’ is a nice E attraction. But one thing that’s been working against DCA is all the clones. Basic fact – people who are likely to be attracted to DCA have also been likely attracted to the much brighter flicker of WDW already. Even for the local, ‘Tower’ is not a big enough attraction to get people into the habit of an annual visit to DCA. Attractions “burn-out” here much faster than WDW because such a huge percentage of the guests see them so often. TOT was greenlighted not because it fit DCA, but because it was cheaper to build it at the same time as the Tower for Disney Studios Paris. The first panic E-Ticket was supposed to be ‘Rock n Rollercoaster’ (built at the same time as the clone in Paris), but DCA’s business was so bad they didn’t want to spend the money even on that a cheap clone then (another story).

DCA is a whole lot different than Animal Kingdom. At AK I feel the basic concept is good, although it has not been executed well. But at DCA I think we’re seeing a poor execution of a bad concept. It can’t be fixed simply by waiting for evolution to occur natural (other than the weeding out of the weak part) – something active must be done to correct the problems.

Telling people to just stop being disappointed and enjoy what they have doesn’t work on the public. Disney is a business and the vast majority of people don’t care how many DISNEY® stickers are plastered on the park.

If they don’t like it, they won’t go.


P.S. - The Brand power I talked about is a very real thing. Disney and other studios have measured it to a fine detail. It's the cornerstone of all motion picture marketing these days and Disney has extended it to the parks as well.

 

[Walt's Frozen Head]

Enough is enough.

These are wonderful additions which, IMHO, add great value to an admission without increasing the cost of admission.

Why is it that when we're talking about something Disney has added, like petrified pop bands, you declare them "wonderful additions," yet when we're talking about something Disney has taken away, like EE, you declare it "good business?"

Exact same kind of situation: an event that some will like and some will not, but costs money. In the case where they decide to spend, you say it's good thing to see spending. In the case where they decided to cut back, you say it's a good thing to see cut backs.

This is why you get painted as a homer. You post out of both sides of your keyboard depending on what Disney has already decided to do. You don't know the math behind either of those decisions, you don't know the ultimate results of either of those decisions, but you use differing criteria to judge them, in such a manner that you can applaud both examples of Disney's contradictory decision-making.

"How can you still be in Car #1?" Well, to me, the good still outweighs the bad and the future still looks bright.

The criteria for placing oneself in Car #1 is the feeling that "the Magic is as strong as ever." I guess your Car #1 proposition makes sense if you think the definition of Disney Magic is "the good... outweighs the bad."

I disagree with you on that.

To me, the biggest paradox is why a Car #3 person would still give their money to WDW.

That's only because you'd rather assume you understand the motivations of the Car #3 person rather than actually listen to what they tell you. As it turns out, words mean things. Only the words in Car #4's description mean "Magic lost, not going back." That's not what Car #3 means, no matter how much simpler that might be for you to comprehend.

I'm in Car #3 because I love Disney. I agree with you that in WDW, the good still outweighs the bad and that WDW is still better than Six Flags or Universal. I just don't agree with you that those statements reflect a Magic that is as strong as it ever was.

I still give my money to Disney because it is my intention to break the Magical bones and suck out the Magical marrow if I have to.

I'm already at the point that I have to do that. We buy Annual Passes to minimize the cost of park days; we now stay off-site because the elimination of EE and the transportation system turning "bus" means the on-site places just aren't worth the extra $.

If an older family member had a condition such that they atrophied before your eyes and they could die at any moment, wouldn't you go to see them as much as possible before they're gone?

That's why I visit Disney often, these days.

I don't understand why it's so important to you to try to push people into Car #4 just because they refuse to wave Eisner-shaped pom-poms with you.

Jeff

 

[space42]

hehe, Scoop.. you just opened another can of "20 page post"

That is a personal assessment that bad and good things have occurred from 1972 until 2002. Eisner has made his fair share of bad moves as have others.

Agreed 100%. Hey, we can stipulate!

However, when comparing his bad moves to previous regimes I don't see anything better or worse.

I still stand on the ground that all of the bad things from 1971 - 1995ish are less than everything bad that has happened since then.