DEBATE Is DCA Worth $14/Day?

[raidermatt]

"DCA is worth $14"

Interesting thoughts on converting DCA to an "American" themed park. Wouldn't take as much investment as it originally sounds. Still, not likely, according to the author.

One thing I don't quite understand is the whole claim that Disney execs are reluctant to change the park drastically because of egos. Does the deep discounting somehow get ignored by their egos? Is that really a source of pride?

Strange.

There's also some specific comments on DCA attendance, as well as the new Paris park (not good).

The article is a good read.

 

[Douglas Dubh]

I think converting it to an "America" theme is just plain silly. California is a fine theme, and the park is a fine park. True, it is not the theme I would have preferred and it needs some more rides, but it's at least as good now as the Florida Studios was a year and a half after opening - maybe better. It just had the misfortune to open during a bad time - and the comparisons to DisneySea are ridiculous. Sure DisneySea is pulling them in, but so is Universal Japan, and it's hardly on the same level as it's American sisters. Fact is, the American and Japanese economies are different.

Further, I doubt it's corporate egos holding back retheming. I think it's the realization that that would be a superficial change. The park needs some more rides, some more variety. It needs some more things that families can do together. There are plenty of rides that can do that and have a California theme. Mostly, it needs a better economy to support it.

The one day hopper seems kind of silly. I'd rather spend the money on a one day ticket to Disneyland or a one day ticket to DCA. There's plenty to do at either for a whole day. A two day hopper I could understand - I don't know why they've been dragging their feet offering one for so long.

 

[d-r]

I have to disagree about DCA - we rode every possible ride at least once, went to every movie/show that was there (blast was not yet there) and watched the Electric Parade in about a combined total of 6 hours. I think we took a break and went over to DL in the middle. And I mean that we rode things 2 and 3 times.

I will say that it was in November but it was on a Saturday. The park was virtually empty, but we still had plenty of time to spare.

That is not to say that I don't like DCA - its fine and most of the rides there with the exception of PP section are very good, but it is easily done in less than a day. We were at DL for 4 days and DCA was practically empty the entire time we were there - DL was packed over the weekend, but very reasonable during the week days we were there.

Melissa

 

[Douglas Dubh]

"I have to disagree about DCA - we rode every possible ride at least once, went to every movie/show that was there (blast was not yet there) and watched the Electric Parade in about a combined total of 6 hours. I think we took a break and went over to DL in the middle. And I mean that we rode things 2 and 3 times."

I'm not sure how this is possible. We've been down to the DL resort 3 times since DCA opened, and each time we've spent at least a full day or two half days at DCA. It takes at least a half hour each to see Golden Dreams, Muppets, Millionaire, Bugs, and the two shows in Animation. Then there's Screaming, Soaring, Limo, MM, Maliboomer, Stinger, Zephyr, Jellyfish, and Grizzly, which I would think would take at least 10 minutes average to ride (I'm pretty sure it took 15 minutes to ride Grizzly with no lines). Plus seeing some shows, looking through stores, and eating - and the wine movie and bread tour, it's 8 hours easy.

Course, I have kids, so add another hour or two at the redwood trail, at craft stations, at character greets, at the boat, at the carousel, and at the farm, and you've got a pretty full day.

 

[airlarry!]

This is an unwinnable debate.

I am absolutely convinced that if DisneySeas in its present form had been built instead of DCA, daily attendance would not be in the low thousands.

But there is no way of really knowing, is there?

With Japanese in the throes of their worst economy in decades, TDS still does roughly 10 million in roughly 2/3 of a year. It is not a fluke. It is not a sign of the Japanese inherent tourist superiority. It is a sign of word-of-mouth spreading about a park that the Imagineers sincerely gave their best effort to create a water-version of Disneyland.

Remember that on the same days that DCA pulls in less than 10, Disneyland pulls in 40k.

This park was a mistake. It may be years before people around the country realize it, but its design and execution was flawed, and the Company, I firmly believe, will pay for it.

But since I'm an optomist, I still believe it is not too late to fix this...

 

[d-r]

douglas- Melissa says "OK, well even 8 hours isn't a whole day"

We didn't show up early or at opening or anything, we slept in and took our time getting over there. We didn't have any plan, and we aren't commandos, but we also didn't have any children in tow. we did do every single thing though. As I remember it, we started with the hollywood area, with muppet vision, superstar limo was closed so we had to come back later. We did millionaire (Melissa was in the hot seat, so that was extra time afterwords while she was debriefed and signed the papers). we spent a lot of time in animation, because I am a buff and we were really interested in how it differed from mgm,so we did all that. Plus there were some new things in there and it was interesting, we spent a lot of time with the interactive stuff. We had lunch at the abc commissary thing. We did soarin' over CA. three times, so that we could ride in each row. we got stuck once for about 15 minutes, so that was extra time there. We went into the grand california resort to check it out (we are resort fans I guess) and looked around and had a couple of beers in the lounge there and caught up with the scores on tv and talked to the cms there. we did bugs life, and talked with a cast member for a while about how it was alike and different from the FL version - she told us about the hopper animatronic and how excited the imagineers were (we also talked a lot with the cms at muppets and animation). we went through the restaurant section there, and some ca. microbrew. On to paradise pier. Walked on to california screamin three times. I did maliboomer twice, Melissa only once. We did orange stinger twice, i liked it. We did the ferris wheel and carosel, then mulhulland madness wild mouse - we were curious because we knew that dinorama was coming, we hated it so only did it once. Rode golden zypher, and jumpin jelly fish because I wanted to be able to say we did everything. that was a waste of our time, but not like the time that we will never get back from going back and riding on superstar limo. We did the movie where whoopie told us how hard it was to come to california. We watched the band that drove around in the woodie a couple of times, couldn't get away from them. we rode grizzly river three times in a row without getting off, that was a whole lot of fun. We went back to paradise pier to put on some dry clothes and came back to ca. adventure. We went to the wine thing. We were tired and sat down with other guests and just hang out and talked to them about where they were from or whatever. I went to get some fish tacos in the restaurant area, and came back to where we were sitting by the wine place with a couple of beers. Then I went to go get more beer and did the tortilla factory and bread thing on the way over there so I could say i did it. The tortilla was good. We hung out and waited and talked with some more guests and drank some beer then watched the electric light parade. it was cool because it was so intimate, it was right there a hands reach away and there was no crowd. But that was kind of a draw back, too, because it seemed sort of chintsy with no crowd. So you are right, it was probabaly more like 8 hours than 6 hours.

Now don't get me wrong = neither Melissa or I have anything against Ca. adventure and we had a lot of fun that day. We liked it. It was slow paced and uncrowded and a lot of fun. Again, it was fall (but it was a Sat. = we went on Sat. figuring disneyland would be full). Also, even though it was our only time at ca. adventure we had the feel for the place because we had seen most of it in disneyworld so it was pretty easy for us to get around or whatever, it is a pretty small place. We liked it though.

dr

 

[raidermatt]

Its not whether any of us as individuals like DCA. I've been there and had fun. But its not even in the same league as DL.

The facts are that people just aren't showing up, and that's even with the heavy discounting.

I agree, a superficial theme change is not the answer, but as part of an overall strategy, it could certainly help. An American theme would always be in vogue, and would be more appealing to Californians.

It just depends on how committed they are to improving things.

 

[Cris]

I keep hearing "look at the studios when it opened" . Well the studios concept has a broader apeal and a concept that has many possibilities. I live in Ohio and personally it is a great state to live in and a great place to visit. But I certainly would not want Ohio Adventure *yawn*. See what I am trying to say? There are some great things in the park, but I think it was poorly planned. I feel that it is below par for Disney, and that makes me sad for the legacy of Walt. Though there are fans of California Screamin, I would like to see the whole PP area torn down and made into a quality "land" and then go from there. As for the studios in Paris, like MGM it has a lot of possibilities, and it will get there.

 

[Bob O]

Something needs to be done. People are voting with their pocketbook and even with great discounts DCA cant seem to draw many people. I havent been their yet but with a upcoming trip it makes you wonder how the park will be. I guessthe good thing is i wont have to worry about waiting in long lines.

 

[Douglas Dubh]

"With Japanese in the throes of their worst economy in decades, TDS still does roughly 10 million in roughly 2/3 of a year. It is not a fluke. It is not a sign of the Japanese inherent tourist superiority."

Yes, it is. Check out the website and information on Universal's Osaka park. I'm pretty sure it cost less than DCA, and has fewer attractions. Yet it's packing them in.

If Disney had spent twice as much on DCA, and only drew twice the number of people, they would have been in much more trouble than they are now. Opening smaller and builder had worked for them in the past. If it was my money, I think I would have taken the more prudent course.

 

[Douglas Dubh]

douglas- Melissa says "OK, well even 8 hours isn't a whole day"

When we went in May, it was. DCA was only open from 10 to 6. For most people, 8 hours in a park is a long time. True, when I was younger, I'd go for 12 to 16 hours, but those days are long passed.

"We hung out and waited and talked with some more guests and drank some beer then watched the electric light parade. it was cool because it was so intimate, it was right there a hands reach away and there was no crowd. But that was kind of a draw back, too, because it seemed sort of chintsy with no crowd. So you are right, it was probabaly more like 8 hours than 6 hours."

And it does seem like you pretty well hit all the bases. When I've gone, it hasn't been that crowded, either, but we haven't covered as much ground. I'm sure I could cover a lot more childless, but when kids insist on spending an hour at Redwood Trail or riding Mulholland Madness over and over, you usually go with the flow.

 

[Cris]

I have always thought that you should build everything on a "solid foundation". DCA is lacking that foundation.

 

[d-r]

I remembered that we also went over to disneyland for a while that Saturday, but it was so crowded we went back to dca.


What I wish they would do is take the gates out of disneyland and out of Ca. adventure, and put in new gates perpindicular to the ones now, one where the good neighbor hotel guests come in and one where the disneyland resort guests come in (at the end of downtown disney) and make the whole thing disneyland. Just one big fat park with one ticket.


I know that the thinking is that this would take away from the 2-park destination resort concept, but I think it would still be viewed as a 2-3 day destination if they billed it as one park that is so big that you can't do it only one day. It would spread the crowds around more, and they could make a lot of ads talking about how many things there are to do and how big it is. Ad in the tower of terror and rockin roller coaster and they could bill it is this super-sized park. I know they will never do it, but I think it would be the best fix.

DR

 

[Douglas Dubh]

"I live in Ohio and personally it is a great state to live in and a great place to visit. But I certainly would not want Ohio Adventure *yawn*. See what I am trying to say?"

Not really. Ohio is certainly a nice state, but it doesn't compare to California. California is America's most populous state and probably has its most diverse population. It's also probably the most diverse in geography - it's got mountains, deserts, farmland, coastline, and urban areas. Plus it's got widely varied commerce - high tech, farming & ranching, manufacturing, and most important for Disney, a major party of the entertainment industry. Compared to most states, California is a super state.

 

[HorizonsFan]

probably has its most diverse population. It's also probably the most diverse in geography - it's got mountains, deserts, farmland, coastline, and urban areas. Plus it's got widely varied commerce - high tech, farming & ranching, manufacturing,

Just reading the above quote, one might think you're talking about Texas! I wouldn't want to see "Texas Adventure" any more than I want to see California Adventure.
In my opinion, the theme is the source of many of the problems at DCA...

 

[Bob O]

8 hours is never enough time to spend in a park, unless the park has so little to do you become bored!!! The last thing disney should do is build a park that isnt a full day park from day one. The built Ak and DCA without the intent to provide a full days worth of activites but still charging full admission which basically mean they intentionally screwed their customers with the promise that we will make it into a full day park later. That is wrong and the attendance at the last 3 american parks paled in comparision to that of the new park in Japan. Hopefully disney will learn.
And i dont think making the park another version of mgm by just remaking their best attractions is the answer either. It may be cheaper but what ever became of being creative and creating something new???
I think it was idiotic to make a park about CA in that state when the majority of their customers are locals who can easily see the orginal and not the disney make believe version.

 

[roymccoy]

My wife said something the other day about DCA that I thought was right on the mark. She said that when she first went to DL in the 60's, the rides and areas didn't look like much on the outside but she was just blown away with what was on the inside. (The rides themselves). DCA is the exact opposite. It looks pretty good from the outside but it is kind of "gutless" on the inside. It's styling over substance. It's a pretty shoebox with cheap shoes on the inside or it's a Casio watch in a Rolex box. That may be what is confusing people about DCA. It kind of looks like a Disney park but it doesn't really feel like one.
The "new" Tommorowland at DL is another recent example of this. It looks really happening on the outside (especially at night) but there's not really anything there. Disney is becoming like the storefronts on Main Street USA...they're merely shells of what they appear to be.


Roy

 

[raidermatt]

If Disney had spent twice as much on DCA, and only drew twice the number of people, they would have been in much more trouble than they are now. Opening smaller and builder had worked for them in the past. If it was my money, I think I would have taken the more prudent course.

Its not all about how much money was spent. Its about knowing what your audience wants and delivering, even exceeding those expectations.

Unlike many around here, I'm perfectly fine with opening a park that is "incomplete". However, the foundation must be strong, and should be used as a foundation. Enhancements and additions should build from there, with adjustments made as necessary.

The bottom line is, the people have spoken. AK may not be what EVERYONE wanted, but it has been drawing about 8 million people per year. The foundation is there. Nobody is calling for a theme change. DCA drew 5 million last year (granted, not a full year), and it doesn't look like its going to do much better this year. It doesn't mean there aren't people who like the park, it just means there aren't enough to support that park as it currently stands.

While I think an American theme would be better than a California theme, that's hardly the heart of the matter. DCA just doesn't deliver enough Disney Magic to satisfy enough Disney fans, and it doesn't deliver enough pure thrills to satisfy the Six Flags crowd. Clearly SOMETHING needs to be done. So far, its mostly repricing, which has to be disturbing from a stockholder point of view.

ToT will probably have a significant impact, but is that enough to bring demand for the park to a point that prices can be "normalized" while still increasing attendance? Or are they just going to give-up and make it another section of DL?

Even if they did combine into one ticket, a la the current one-day hopper, how much could they increase the DL ticket price? $5? MAYBE $10? Ugh. The $59 one-day hopper maybe a test to see how many guests buy the hopper instead of the one-day DL ticket.

But since I'm an optomist, I still believe it is not too late to fix this...

I absolutely agree.

 

[Walt's Frozen Head]

Unlike many around here, I'm perfectly fine with opening a park that is "incomplete".

I love statements that I can completely agree with, and completely disagree with.

There are some good business reasons to offer a scaled-down product under some circumstances. From that perspective, I'm "fine" with offering such a product under such circumstances.

The problem in this case is that a scaled-down park is simply not the answer to the question "What can we sit beside Disneyland that will allow us to charge the same admission price as we do for Disneyland?"

From that point of view, under those circumstances, I think it was pretty stupid to open an "incomplete" park.

-WFH

 

[raidermatt]

"What can we sit beside Disneyland that will allow us to charge the same admission price as we do for Disneyland?"

From that point of view, under those circumstances, I think it was pretty stupid to open an "incomplete" park.

I think it could work IF they did the following:

1- Ensured that what was included on day 1 was Disney quality. Sort of like the response to AK that says its good, there just needs to be more of it. DCA generally doesn't even get that good of a response as it stands now.

2- Offered discounts from day 1, understanding that DCA just wasn't close to offering the breadth of entertainment DL does. If the ultimate goal was to eventually charge the same, then its difficult to make the front gate posted price anything lower than DL's. However, offer discounts to everyone you can, like DC members, DVC members, AP holders (both DL and WDW), resort guests, locals, etc. This effectively lowers the price, yet the discounts can be pulled back when #3 is executed...

3- Continue the build out with Disney quality attractions and areas.

By doing all of this, they are able to start their revenue stream sooner than they could have otherwise, can adjust on the fly as necessary, and still satisfy their fans who are looking for Disney Magic at a good value.

(They could still pursue this path, but it would require some attraction replacing and ego swallowing. And some cash.)