Disney paying a “living wage”. Sigh…

[Douglas Dubh]

It's been proven to not be true.

No it hasn’t. It’s an assumption that can’t be proven or disproven because there are far too many variables in our economy to reach a definitive conclusion.

 

[KVH]

The lack of understanding of economics in this thread is staggering . . .

 

[DLgal]

As I have said anyone who wants to work for Disney knows what the pay is before they take the job. I personally know of and knew people making over six figure incomes working for Disney who started out as entry level cast members.
They have to decide if it is worth to be able to take care of them self and their family.

Disney KNOWS and openly admits that they pay less than "market rate." They know it. At the corporate level, the pay is about 30% less than industry average across the board. They think the Disney name and company perks are "worth" the wage gap. And for many years, it was true. The pandemic has changed all of that. The company name is slowly being eroded by poor decisions and bad leadership
The employee perks are not as valuable as they once were. I have known a few people who have worked Director (or higher) level jobs with the company. They have all left for jobs that pay better elsewhere. They cited toxic leadership as the primary reason for wanting to look elsewhere for jobs. The company has lost some of its shine. Layoffs happen frequently and without warning.

You are right that people know the pay before they take the job. And a lot of entry level jobs are STILL desperately trying to recruit people with 4 figure sign on bonuses. It's not enough. They will need to pay more. They slowly notch up the pay rates (at least here at Disneyland) with each new job posting, but they are still way off the mark if they WANT quality employees. WDW uses the college program so they can get away with, essentially, slave labor over there. That isn't the case at Disneyland and as a result, you have an understaffed resort as a whole. When Disneyland was closed for over a year, they lost employees to other jobs that remained open and those employees are never coming back.

 

[DLgal]

Most people have to understand a company's main responsibility is to its investors.
Investors in a company are important for the company's health. Keeping Wall Street happy is what provides investors in a company, this will allow it to grow.
As a company grows it hires more employees providing more jobs to the community.

This mentality is also a problem. I agree a company needs to have growth year over year in order to survive and thrive. However, it has now become almost required by investors that companies show "record breaking" profits EVERY QUARTER. The pressure to grow exponentially is out of touch with reality. Why should a company get to brag about their record breaking multi billion dollar quarterly earnings and then turn around the next day and announce hiring freezes, layoffs, etc? And then a couple days after that, "oh yeah we just spend another bazillion dollars to buy a giant cruise ship that we don't really need." Why is it acceptable for companies to take on more and more debt, then fleece their customers to post record profits quarter after quarter? This behavior has been normalized but that doesn't mean it's right. When companies succeed on the backs of hard working, underpaid people, it makes a bad impression. Many large companies actually value their employees and ALSO are successful financially. You CAN do both things.

 

[jecarnl]

That’s ridiculous and insulting to a lot of people. And for what it’s worth, many CMs work 11 to 12 hour days. When I was a CM, I did that four times a week.

This thread reeks of politics.

Why is it ridiculous and insulting? We live in a day and age where people feel entitled, and they certainly don't want to work. If your job doesn't pay you enough money, quit and find a new one.

 

[Jrb1979]

I'm call bull on all this living wage crap. I work for one of the biggest retailers in North America. They have no problem paying their employees a living wage while looking out for their shareholders.

 

[71 Truck]

Disney KNOWS and openly admits that they pay less than "market rate." They know it. At the corporate level, the pay is about 30% less than industry average across the board. They think the Disney name and company perks are "worth" the wage gap. And for many years, it was true. The pandemic has changed all of that. The company name is slowly being eroded by poor decisions and bad leadership
The employee perks are not as valuable as they once were. I have known a few people who have worked Director (or higher) level jobs with the company. They have all left for jobs that pay better elsewhere. They cited toxic leadership as the primary reason for wanting to look elsewhere for jobs. The company has lost some of its shine. Layoffs happen frequently and without warning.

You are right that people know the pay before they take the job. And a lot of entry level jobs are STILL desperately trying to recruit people with 4 figure sign on bonuses. It's not enough. They will need to pay more. They slowly notch up the pay rates (at least here at Disneyland) with each new job posting, but they are still way off the mark if they WANT quality employees. WDW uses the college program so they can get away with, essentially, slave labor over there. That isn't the case at Disneyland and as a result, you have an understaffed resort as a whole. When Disneyland was closed for over a year, they lost employees to other jobs that remained open and those employees are never coming back.

As I have said in the past people willingly make the decision to work for Disney, no one is forced to work their.
If people have a problem with many of the thing you quoted they have the right to find a better job making more money.

And I do not believe Disney openly admits that they pay less than market rate. I do not think they pay less than any other one else in the industry considering the amount of different kinds of jobs Disney offers at least in Florida.

You have to remember a vast number of the cast is covered by a union and once again they negotiate with Disney for the pay. It would be bad for the membership to allow Disney to openly admit the pay less than market rate then except the contract.

 

[DLgal]

As I have said in the past people willingly make the decision to work for Disney, no one is forced to work their.
If people have a problem with many of the thing you quoted they have the right to find a better job making more money.

And I do not believe Disney openly admits that they pay less than market rate. I do not think they pay less than any other one else in the industry considering the amount of different kinds of jobs Disney offers at least in Florida.

You have to remember a vast number of the cast is covered by a union and once again they negotiate with Disney for the pay. It would be bad for the membership to allow Disney to openly admit the pay less than market rate then except the contract.

I'm not talking about entry level Disney jobs. I'm talking about management level and up. They pay less. It's well known. There are plenty of places you can find average salaries for specific job titles based on the region. When you interview for a corporate job at Disney, they will TELL YOU the pay is less there than it is at other companies for the SAME JOB TITLES AND EXPERIENCE. They expect people to be grateful to have the word "Disney" on their resume. This is very common knowledge. They will tell you they cannot compete with other job offers with higher starting salaries. I have actual friends who have experienced this, and it is a common conversational topic whenever you talk to someone who works/worked for Disney corporate.

 

[Allison]

Disney STILL.has not found enough people to fill all the open positions. So, no, not enough people are willing to do the job for that pay. THAT is the problem. Companies paying well are not dealing with "staffing issues." If you pay well, you get people to fill the jobs.

That is not true. Companies paying well are still having staffing issues.

 

[Jrb1979]

That is not true. Companies paying well are still having staffing issues.

I blame that solely on the fact many people just aren't interested in the jobs available. IMO many young people are looking for that perfect job.

 

[71 Truck]

I'm not talking about entry level Disney jobs. I'm talking about management level and up. They pay less. It's well known. There are plenty of places you can find average salaries for specific job titles based on the region. When you interview for a corporate job at Disney, they will TELL YOU the pay is less there than it is at other companies for the SAME JOB TITLES AND EXPERIENCE. They expect people to be grateful to have the word "Disney" on their resume. This is very common knowledge. They will tell you they cannot compete with other job offers with higher starting salaries. I have actual friends who have experienced this, and it is a common conversational topic whenever you talk to someone who works/worked for Disney corporate.

Well the person who started this post, I thought was talking about front line cast members.

Once again no one is forced to work for Disney at any level corporate or entry level.
I have a good friend who was making a high five figure income. He went to Disney and during the interview he told them he wanted a low six figure offer or he would not come to work for them, they gave it to him.

I can't understand why anyone would work for less money at Disney then to take a job some where else making more money.

 

[DLgal]

Well the person who started this post, I thought was talking about front line cast members.

Once again no one is forced to work for Disney at any level corporate or entry level.
I have a good friend who was making a high five figure income. He went to Disney and during the interview he told them he wanted a low six figure offer or he would not come to work for them, they gave it to him.

I can't understand why anyone would work for less money at Disney then to take a job some where else making more money.

They gave it to him because that was the going rate, not because he said he would work elsewhere. Knowing the salary target range for a job is an important negotiating tool.

I explained the bolded elsewhere. The Disney name *used to* mean something on a resume. Not so much anymore. Almost everyone working for Disney making a salary can make more money at another company. Your point of reference is one person. I have lived in Southern California for almost 20 years. I know a lot of people who have worked for Disney. I have heard several similar stories.

 

[71 Truck]

This mentality is also a problem. I agree a company needs to have growth year over year in order to survive and thrive. However, it has now become almost required by investors that companies show "record breaking" profits EVERY QUARTER. The pressure to grow exponentially is out of touch with reality. Why should a company get to brag about their record breaking multi billion dollar quarterly earnings and then turn around the next day and announce hiring freezes, layoffs, etc? And then a couple days after that, "oh yeah we just spend another bazillion dollars to buy a giant cruise ship that we don't really need." Why is it acceptable for companies to take on more and more debt, then fleece their customers to post record profits quarter after quarter? This behavior has been normalized but that doesn't mean it's right. When companies succeed on the backs of hard working, underpaid people, it makes a bad impression. Many large companies actually value their employees and ALSO are successful financially. You CAN do both things.

As an investor in not only Disney stock but many other company stocks I do not think this mentality is a problem.
This is the nature of how publicly traded companies work for the most part.
Two way a company makes money, increases sales and or cuts cost, it's that simple.
I am going to guess that most layoffs and hiring freezes are going to be at the corporate level and not front line cast members.
And the way Disney keeps increasing prices is the main reason my wife and I no longer visit the parks.

 

[DLgal]

That is not true. Companies paying well are still having staffing issues.

Obviously they are, but my point is that if you are having trouble attracting workers, and you look around and see that other employers in the same industry are paying more, guess where the workers will go?

 

[DLgal]

As an investor in not only Disney stock but many other company stocks I do not think this mentality is a problem.
This is the nature of how publicly traded companies work for the most part.
Two way a company makes money, increases sales and or cuts cost, it's that simple.
I am going to guess that most layoffs and hiring freezes are going to be at the corporate level and not front line cast members.
And the way Disney keeps increasing prices is the main reason my wife and I no longer visit the parks.

The stock market fluctuates on the emotions and whims of investors, it has little to do with earnings and profits. If it did, every company posting a net gain every quarter would see an ever climbing stock value.

Look what has happened to Disney stock over the last couple years. It's the worst performing stock in the DJIA. That should be a wake up call to this company. But no, let's just keep patting ourselves on the back and talking about our record quarterly profits.

The point of this original post is a commentary on the fact that the Disney company isn't paying a living wage in the areas around their domestic theme parks. We can go back and forth all day, but the numbers are clear that this is a fact. What they do about it remains to be seen, but at this point, it seems all these high prices aimed at parks guests are going to subsidize purchases elsewhere in the company, rather than being used to give their lowest level employees a decent chance at affording to live above the poverty line.

 

[71 Truck]

They gave it to him because that was the going rate, not because he said he would work elsewhere. Knowing the salary target range for a job is an important negotiating tool.

I explained the bolded elsewhere. The Disney name *used to* mean something on a resume. Not so much anymore. Almost everyone working for Disney making a salary can make more money at another company. Your point of reference is one person. I have lived in Southern California for almost 20 years. I know a lot of people who have worked for Disney. I have heard several similar stories.

They did not give my friend the pay because it was the a target range, the high end of the target range was less. They gave him what he wanted because they wanted him and valued his experience.

I know a few people who have done what my friend did to get their job at Disney, things must be very diffrent in California.

Yes having Disney on a resume did mean something years ago, not any more.

 

[DLgal]

They did not give my friend the pay because it was the a target range, the high end of the target range was less. They gave him what he wanted because they wanted him and valued his experience.

I know a few people who have done what my friend did to get their job at Disney, things must be very diffrent in California.

Yes having Disney on a resume did mean something years ago, not any more.

The high end of the *posted salary range for a new hire* was less. That's not the real salary range. Talk to some hiring managers. This is a common tactic.

Starting Jan 1, in California, employers have to post ACTUAL salary ranges for positions they are trying to fill, based on actual data they have to submit that shows the actual salaries people in those actual roles are making, currently. There will be no more of this secret formula b.s.

 

[Lumpy1106]

In CA the push is to make minimum wage a living wage. The problem with that is minimum wage jobs are, for the most part, transitory positions. The wages paid to the people doing these jobs are what drives the cost of the item they provide. This is restaurants, stocking shelves, etc. If you increase the wage, the cost of the item they provide also needs to also increase. Consequentially, the minimum wage is no longer a living wage, and must be increased to keep up. It's a never ending cycle of inflation. You can break this cycle by just admitting that minimum wage will never be a living wage and was never intended to be. These jobs are for kids in HS and college who have health care and part of their cost of living (i.e. rent) paid for by their parents. You do these jobs to get experience and to get you through this phase of life, then move up to management or move on. You don't raise a family working at a minimum wage job.

 

[persnickity]

As a kid growing up I saw family's who's had one parent working a full time job(a career) and one parent who worked part time as lets say a supermarket cashier to provide for the family. In this case the person with the career is going to make a lot more money because of lets say advanced skills needed to do that job and the person who is the cashier is going to probably make less. Even tho both jobs are important it is just a fact of life.

Yup, that's how it used to be. And it also used to be that one salary paid more than enough to support a family. My dad worked for GM, and my mom didn't really need to work - though she did, as she likes to stay busy. But wage stagnation means that now most families need two income earners to get by, and even then it's often tight. I have a Master's degree and I've been working over 20 years - I still don't make as much money as GM paid my dad in 1990. Not inflation adjusted, the actual dollar amount.

Some people have a Champagne life style on a beer budget. You may have to work two jobs to live this way.

A separate issue, but sure, many people will need to work more if they want more than the basics. My point is that a wage should at least cover the necessities.

The lack of understanding of economics in this thread is staggering . . .

Agreed, and it's always interesting when people think they have a good understanding of economics, but they have actually been misinformed. It's almost like it's by design.

As an investor in not only Disney stock but many other company stocks I do not think this mentality is a problem.
This is the nature of how publicly traded companies work for the most part.
Two way a company makes money, increases sales and or cuts cost, it's that simple.
I am going to guess that most layoffs and hiring freezes are going to be at the corporate level and not front line cast members.
And the way Disney keeps increasing prices is the main reason my wife and I no longer visit the parks.

As an investor, I'd think that would concern you!

 

[71 Truck]

The stock market fluctuates on the emotions and whims of investors, it has little to do with earnings and profits. If it did, every company posting a net gain every quarter would see an ever climbing stock value.

Look what has happened to Disney stock over the last couple years. It's the worst performing stock in the DJIA. That should be a wake up call to this company. But no, let's just keep patting ourselves on the back and talking about our record quarterly profits.

The point of this original post is a commentary on the fact that the Disney company isn't paying a living wage in the areas around their domestic theme parks. We can go back and forth all day, but the numbers are clear that this is a fact. What they do about it remains to be seen, but at this point, it seems all these high prices aimed at parks guests are going to subsidize purchases elsewhere in the company, rather than being used to give their lowest level employees a decent chance at affording to live above the poverty line.

I agree with most everything you say however as of right now, weather Disney can attract new cast members or not the average STARTING pay for a person with NO EXPERIENCE is $15.00 an hour that's $31,200 a year.
A Disney bus driver "THAT THEY WILL TRAIN" STARTS at $18.00 dollars an hour that's $37,440 a year.
All that also comes with benefits other than free park passes or discounts.
To me that is not bad STARTING pay for a job at Walt Disney World.
There are other jobs at Disney that require some training that pay better.
If people want more money either get an education/training and look somewhere other than Disney.
At some point people have to decide what is best for their family, I did.