Does David's tell you if the renter cancels?

[Cyberc1978]

If your reservation was cancelled due to resort closure, then your borrowed points can be returned to the original UY. You shouldn't be out anything in that case.

That all depends when the owner called to get the points put back. We have heard stories about everything going smoothly and going not so good.

 

[TheWheel]

This is in the contract signed by the owner, renter, and David's. I would think a closed resort counts as an operational change by DVC. And you can bet going forward that resort closures specifically will be addressed in future contracts.

"David’s Vacation Club Rentals is not liable for any operations changes by the Disney Vacation Club with respect to where you have booked your travel. This would include but is not limited to operations of resort restaurants, pools, play grounds and other amenities controlled by the Resort."

Above only applies to amenities not accommodations

 

[aoconnor]

If your reservation was cancelled due to resort closure, then your borrowed points can be returned to the original UY. You shouldn't be out anything in that case.

Hmm I just did it online and the points were not returned to the original UY. I guess I'll have to call and see what they can do.

 

[Yinn]

Hmm I just did it online and the points were not returned to the original UY. I guess I'll have to call and see what they can do.

You have to call, doing it online doesn't automatically return. A CM has to do it.

 

[Friendlyadvice2]

Above only applies to amenities not accommodations

Maybe, maybe not. The fact that you have a different interpretation than @Kaufeegurl clearly demonstrates ambiguity in it's legal intent.

 

[foreUT]

I rented 63 of my points through David's for a reservation that now will be canceled. I used 40 current UY points and borrowed 23. I can bank the 40 current UY points no problem.. the 23 borrowed now present an issue since I won't be able to use them and probably won't be able to rent them.

I've received $640 from David's so far.. is it wrong to only return $306 to the renter? ($640 I have received, less $333 of lost points (23 pts x $14.50). I feel terrible for the renter to lose money but the whole situation is out of either of our control...

Personally, I wouldn't be returning any money until I was sure to whom and for what it was going. What if you returned the $306 and were then told you needed to create a new reservation to fulfill your original contract? This situation is so convoluted, as an Owner, I'd do what I could to protect any at risk points (bank, un-borrow) and just see what happens when the dust settles.

 

[Van Houten]

Maybe, maybe not. The fact that you have a different interpretation than @Kaufeegurl clearly demonstrates ambiguity in it's legal intent.

In case of a claim, this interpretation will be handled by an experienced professional. The way that was worded, "not limited to" referenced in a statement describing examples of amenities, it will be very hard to make a case that it extends to accommodations, which is the main subject of the entire contract.

 

[Friendlyadvice2]

In case of a claim, this interpretation will be handled by an experienced professional. The way that was worded, "not limited to" referenced in a statement describing examples of amenities, it will be very hard to make a case that it extends to accommodations, which is the main subject of the entire contract.

Maybe, maybe not. Experienced professionals disagree everyday in the litigation of various cases. That's the nature of the job. FWIW, I could see an argument on either side of that clause, though likely irrelevant based on the other contract language.

 

[GoingSince1990]

The policy of returning borrowed points to the use year that they were originally borrowed from when someone cancels due to a resort closure is up on the DVC member website.

Temporary Updates to Our Cancellation Policy
To make the process of changing reservations as smooth as possible, Disney Vacation Club has lifted the close-in reservation cancellation restrictions and will return any of your Points back as Vacation Points or Reservation Points without placing them into holding. In the meantime, all Points banking rules remain in place. While we understand the banking policy might create some frustration, please realize that this rule is in place to ensure that the Membership as a whole avoids future inventory constraints. Borrowed Points returned due to a cancellation of a Disney Vacation Club Resort reservation will not be placed in holding and will be returned to the Use Year they were borrowed from.

https://disneyvacationclub.disney.go.com/travel-information/

 

[Yinn]

The policy of returning borrowed points to the use year that they were originally borrowed from when someone cancels due to a resort closure is up on the DVC member website.

Temporary Updates to Our Cancellation Policy
To make the process of changing reservations as smooth as possible, Disney Vacation Club has lifted the close-in reservation cancellation restrictions and will return any of your Points back as Vacation Points or Reservation Points without placing them into holding. In the meantime, all Points banking rules remain in place. While we understand the banking policy might create some frustration, please realize that this rule is in place to ensure that the Membership as a whole avoids future inventory constraints. Borrowed Points returned due to a cancellation of a Disney Vacation Club Resort reservation will not be placed in holding and will be returned to the Use Year they were borrowed from.

https://disneyvacationclub.disney.go.com/travel-information/

For clarity, since I called this morning. This is specific to the event of a resort closure. Cancellations beyond March 31 (currently) are not returning borrowed points.

Another words, they want to encourage people to keep their reservations and go when they open. This is to offer some comfort and keep people from abandoning all reservations.

 

[fsjking]

I was just going to ask what others thoughts were on that! You read my mind!

So, in essence, what the broker could do is refund renters his portion and that 30% back, If his contract with them is being looked at as possible invalid,

That could soften the blow and keep the brokers damage In all of this to a minimum.

A partial refund opens them to accepting responsibility which would make a chargeback easier. In that case they could lose the chargeback amount and the refund amount

David can claim whatever he wants, but his contract with owners says nothing about resorts closing:

The balance of funds owing to you is paid on the day of guest check-in. Reservations are NON-REFUNDABLE, so you get your money regardless of whether or not the guest checks into the resort.


The day of check-in doesn't change or go away and is not dependent on the guest checking in, per David's own words. Whether or not a guest can check-in is irrelevant with David's contract with the owners. I don't know what he has in place with any contracts between he and the renters. If David's was concerned with the resorts being closed due to a pandemic, then he should have put that verbiage in the contract with owners, so owners would know that they may not get their money in the unlikely event that happens; not pretend that it was there all along. They could have then decided if they still wanted to rent their points with David's. I haven't seen that verbiage yet in any of the owners contracts.

The owners are required to provide a verifiable reservation and keep that reservation in place by not cancelling it on their own or by compromising their membership. Owners are not responsible for something outside their control.......as much as David's may want them to be.

But does your purchase of a DVC timeshare and deed make you a partial owner of the resort and responsible for the closure, and thereby not living up to your responsibility to provide the reservation? I know the "I didn't have any say in it argument", but in a court how would that work out?

IMO that’s between the renter and David’s. You could offer to reschedule depending on when the points expire. If the renter can’t go before the points expire then it’s very unfortunate but IMO it’s not your fault or the renter for that matter.

I would not refund.

IMO this is force majeure and no one is to blame. The renter should have gotten travelers insurance CFAR.

If there's not a force majeure clause in the contract, can that legally be used? The Resort was not ordered to shut down, it chose to. There is a legal distinction there.

 

[Friendlyadvice2]

But does your purchase of a DVC timeshare and deed make you a partial owner of the resort and responsible for the closure, and thereby not living up to your responsibility to provide the reservation? I know the "I didn't have any say in it argument", but in a court how would that work out?

No, that's been discussed at length.

The Resort was not ordered to shut down, it chose to. There is a legal distinction there.

I've read that the WDTC ordered DVCMC to close the resorts. The resorts do sit on land leased from Disney and not owned by the resorts themselves.

 

[fsjking]

No, that's been discussed at length.



I've read that the WDTC ordered DVCMC to close the resorts. The resorts do sit on land leased from Disney and not owned by the resorts themselves.

Discussion on a message board doesn't make it true. Unless a lawyer has read the actual contracts with the rental companies and the contracts/deeds the owners have with DVC its just speculation. Even then, it's one lawyers opinion. I'm just saying theres enough vagueness in what I've seen posted with contracts that it would be an interesting legal argument. At some point, one of the CC companies will refuse the chargeback, and this will end up as a lawsuit. Maybe we find out then.

 

[Sandisw]

I know this is not same thing, but I thought this was a very interesting read consider the topic being discussed

https://www.outerbanksvoice.com/2020/03/20/real-estate-commission-says-barred-visitors-owed-refunds/

 

[fsjking]

I know this is not same thing, but I thought this was a very interesting read consider the topic being discussed

https://www.outerbanksvoice.com/2020/03/20/real-estate-commission-says-barred-visitors-owed-refunds/

I wonder if a timeshare owner that rented their timeshare out would be considered a broker or landlord in that case.

 

[Yinn]

I wonder if a timeshare owner that rented their timeshare out would be considered a broker or landlord in that case.

As a deeded owner, landlord.

 

[Sandisw]

I wonder if a timeshare owner that rented their timeshare out would be considered a broker or landlord in that case.

Not sure, but it’d certainly be nice if there was something like this in terms of a clear cut decision that could apply in this case. We have rented in the OBX before, and those contracts were indeed listed as non-refundable as well.

But what I found interesting here was the use of A broker, but owner still responsible.

Again, I know this isn’t Florida or a timeshare, but rather that at least in NC, a non refundable contract isn’t always ironclad,

 

[McCrae]

My contract is with David’s. I agreed to make a reservation for one of his clients at a DVC resort and not to do anything that would prevent that reservation being honoured. I have completed my obligation. Don't see how I could be held in any way liable for the resort closing.

 

[Yinn]

My contract is with David’s. I agreed to make a reservation for one of his clients at a DVC resort and not to do anything that would prevent that reservation being honoured. I have completed my obligation. Don't see how I could be held in any way liable for the resort closing.

Because you have a contract with Davids - the broker to find and facilitate a rental. But you also have a rental agreement (sent to you upon reservation confirmation, check your email. Subject: rental agreement) between you and the renter. It goes...

This electronic agreement is made on __________ by and between _______ ('Renter') and ___________ (together 'Member') by David Mullett ('Intermediary').

Think of it this way. You hire a real estate agent to sell your house. You even sign a contract. But the contract on the house isn’t between you and your agent, it’s between you and the buyer. The agent/broker is just a facilitator and that’s all the first contract is for

 

[tubtruck]

I had a rental due to go this next week, David asked if I would be willing to cancel and refund, this was before closure was announced, I said I was willing to cancel and rebook but not refund. His employee wrote back thanking me and stated that I would still be paid on the original checkin date. I then cancelled the booking and now awaiting his instructions on any rebooking for the family or another person.