DVC Club Level and Home Resort Survey

[thadhouse]

I'm really hoping that moving undeclared parts of existing buildings into a trust system wouldn't cause those rooms to only be bookable using the trust. I'd hate to lose access to 3/4 of VDH just because I bought too early. I know currently we can't book them because they're undeclared, but never getting them declared at all would just kind of suck.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

DVC turning toward a more traditional timeshare, vs their originally (and awesome) marketed club.

At one point in history Disney really was above the fray.

 

[dioxide45]

And Chang is the Director of the trust!

I don't see a trust agreement recorded yet in Orange County. Perhaps it is there and I am just not finding it.

 

[dioxide45]

Are there any undeclared units at Aulani? Creating a trust type setup, they could add undeclared Aulani to the trust and sell them to buyers who dream of booking WDW or DL. They don't even need the availability there, they can just say by buying the points it will allow you to book those resorts at 7 months. Many timeshare systems do this. Load a trust up with the "leftover crap" and sell it by saying you can book the best oceanfront units! Very few people read the disclosures when they buy to really see how many units are in the trust from each resort. It would be a way to finally "sell out" Aulani.

 

[sndral]

So I guess this answers the what happens to all of those non extended 2042 OKW contracts question & even what happens to all the resorts that expire in 2042.
I’m shocked that these documents were filed in August & October this year & nobody’s really noticed until now. Kudos to @ehh for spotting it.

 

[BeachClub2014]

So I guess this answers the what happens to all of those non extended 2042 OKW contracts question & even what happens to all the resorts that expire in 2042.
I’m shocked that these documents were filed in August & October this year & nobody’s really noticed until now. Kudos to @ehh for spotting it.

What'll be really interesting to see unfold, is how any/all of the points owned by DVD interact, if at all, with the trust.

 

[Phijammamama]

Can someone kindly explain to me if this would change anything for current direct or resale owners? Or would the new trust just impact sales going forward?

 

[BeachClub2014]

Can someone kindly explain to me if this would change anything for current direct or resale owners? Or would the new trust just impact sales going forward?

I don't think anyone really knows. It'll be interesting to see more details as they become available.

 

[Tatebeck]

I don't think it would change anything immediately for current owners, though they may change some things around in the future. I don't think they would be able to change the minimum that is guaranteed in the contracts (at least 1 month of booking priority over people using sleep around points), but they may change the windows from 7 and 11 months to something else.

The easiest way for me to think about it is to treat it like some mega billionaire that is buying up an absolute ton of direct new points and resale points/expired resorts and using it for all of his giant pool of extended family and friends. They should only be able to book the total points they own of each home resort per year at 11 months, then a major free for all for everything at 7 months. That makes me think the 7 month window at non home resorts could get nuts if they end up going through with this. Anything else would be hard to predict

 

[dioxide45]

Can someone kindly explain to me if this would change anything for current direct or resale owners? Or would the new trust just impact sales going forward?

We don't know, but isn't the restriction on resale part of the BVTC rules and regulations? If so, they could restrict resale trust point owners from exchanging into restricted resorts at the 7 month mark. If however those restricted resorts are in the trust, they couldn't prevent resale trust point owners from reserving them within the "home resort" priority period of 11-7 months.

Diamond Resorts has their system setup so resale owners in their Trust Collections don't have access to the internal trading company (like BVTC). They can only book resorts available in the trust as long as the trust still has unreserved availability. Marriott is the same, but they also provide a mechanism, with a large fee, to allow resale trust point buyers to have access to the internal trading company.

 

[MarkNC2Disney]

There will always be resorts that are more preferred over others. Have fun competing against 5x as many people for the same low point studios at 11 months.

 

[Tatebeck]

We don't know, but isn't the restriction on resale part of the BVTC rules and regulations? If so, they could restrict resale trust point owners from exchanging into restricted resorts at the 7 month mark. If however those restricted resorts are in the trust, they couldn't prevent resale trust point owners from reserving them within the "home resort" priority period of 11-7 months.

When Disney ROFRs contracts and then resells the points as direct, I believe then they aren't restricted points. So technically all of the points in the "trust" could be seen as gotten "direct" and avoid all restrictions as they are rented out to people who pay for access to the trust points.

 

[Sandisw]

We don't know, but isn't the restriction on resale part of the BVTC rules and regulations? If so, they could restrict resale trust point owners from exchanging into restricted resorts at the 7 month mark. If however those restricted resorts are in the trust, they couldn't prevent resale trust point owners from reserving them within the "home resort" priority period of 11-7 months.

Yes, the restrictions are in play because of the way that both RIV and VDH entered into an agreement with BVTC.

But, this is also why I do not see them trying to add any inventory or their points from current resorts that had the units declared. It seems just too messy and I am still not convinced it can work easily with the current POS.

However, AUL, RIV, and VDH have not yet declared all the units and the POS says that DVD does not have o declare more than the what is initially done. Poly tower has not yet declared anything into PVB and of course, CFW hasn’t done anything yet.

In my mind, that leaves a lot of new inventory that they could decide to use to start up this new trust type timeshare program without messing with the others.

But, I admit, I am just beginning to try to learn how these types of systems work. Not saying they will, but after this week with what they decided with Poly tower. I would not put it past them to start this type of system sooner rather than later,…which is not where my head was a week ago.

 

[Royal Consort]

The irony isn't lost on me: Disney fiddling with the restrictions/poor communication and we're talking about trust.


My mind immediately goes to their big ROFR gobbling that happened last year. If you're going to build a trust system, adding all those BLT and AKV points into it would be a good starting point.

 

[dioxide45]

Yes, the restrictions are in play because of the way that both RIV and VDH entered into an agreement with BVTC.

But, this is also why I do not see them trying to add any inventory or their points from current resorts that had the units declared. It seems just too messy and I am still not convinced it can work easily with the current POS.

However, AUL, RIV, and VDH have not yet declared all the units and the POS says that DVD does not have o declare more than the what is initially done. Poly tower has not yet declared anything into PVB and of course, CFW hasn’t done anything yet.

In my mind, that leaves a lot of new inventory that they could decide to use to start up this new trust type timeshare program without messing with the others.

But, I admit, I am just beginning to try to learn how these types of systems work. Not saying they will, but after this week with what they decided with Poly tower. I would not put it past them to start this type of system sooner rather than later,…which is not where my head was a week ago.

I think the main reason they would want to get AUL and RIV into the trust is because they could sell these units more easily. They seem to be struggling to sell these two properties and by putting them into a trust it gives them a whole bunch of points they can now sell with the dream of booking any of the other resorts. There could still be restrictions of the trust being able to use RIV points to book other resorts at the 7 month mark. Like you said, it could be messy but they could still make it work and I don't think they want to still be struggling to sell AUL 10 years from now. They could better sell this trust product at AUL because they can say to buyers that they can use the trust points for any resort (in the trust) at 11 months. If they can convey ROFR inventory to the trust (as Marriott does), then technically just about any resort would be available at 11 months if one owned trust points.

 

[Sandisw]

I think the main reason they would want to get AUL and RIV into the trust is because they could sell these units more easily. They seem to be struggling to sell these two properties and by putting them into a trust it gives them a whole bunch of points they can now sell with the dream of booking any of the other resorts. There could still be restrictions of the trust being able to use RIV points to book other resorts at the 7 month mark. Like you said, it could be messy but they could still make it work and I don't think they want to still be struggling to sell AUL 10 years from now. They could better sell this trust product at AUL because they can say to buyers that they can use the trust points for any resort (in the trust) at 11 months. If they can convey ROFR inventory to the trust (as Marriott does), then technically just about any resort would be available at 11 months if one owned trust points.

Thinking out loud. If I am DVD, and filed paperwork to create a trust like this and want to move the product in that direction…I am adding some of Poly tower, CFW, and VDH to it as well as RIV and AUL undeclared units.

Then, those that are buying into this “trust” now have booking rights for five resorts right off the bat,

Then, the trust gets into an agreement with BVTC, to allow its members to trade into the other DVC resorts, including the regular declared units that are deeded at RIV, VDH, and AUL at the 7 month mark.

Seems like the best of all worlds…but, again, I don’t know how it can work in practice but it certainly seems like it could.

 

[Tatebeck]

And you know they would never let their own points expire unused. Oh someone cancelled last second? There's someone else checking for dates last second. Here you go! And they can code it all to do it automatically. Kind of genius really.

They could even include all the cruises, adventures, etc even though they aren't a great value. Someone wanted to use points for that but cancelled, oh now we have dvc points already converted to reservation points that the next person booking a cruise/adventure/other converted trip can use.

 

[dioxide45]

Thinking out loud. If I am DVD, and filed paperwork to create a trust like this and want to move the product in that direction…I am adding some of Poly tower, CFW, and VDH to it as well as RIV and AUL undeclared units.

Then, those that are buying into this “trust” now have booking rights for five resorts right off the bat,

Then, the trust gets into an agreement with BVTC, to allow its members to trade into the other DVC resorts, including the regular declared units that are deeded at RIV, VDH, and AUL at the 7 month mark.

Seems like the best of all worlds…but, again, I don’t know how it can work in practice but it certainly seems like it could.

Yes, I would expect it to work that way. The more resorts they can have in there from the get go, the more attractive it would be.

I do have a question about associations going forward. Does a possible new trust negate the need for associations for future properties? If they build a new resort, they don't necessarily need an HOA since the only owner is the trust. They simply convey all units in a building to the new land trust and file a notice on the number of points added to the trust. Certainly this wouldn't impact Poly Tower since it has been stated it will be part of the existing HOA, but possible that 100% of CFW could simply go into the trust. Though CFW would still have to be part of a master association with the campground since they would share amenities, or perhaps one of the expenses of operating CFW would simply to "rent" amenities from the campground.

 

[Sandisw]

Yes, I would expect it to work that way. The more resorts they can have in there from the get go, the more attractive it would be.

I do have a question about associations going forward. Does a possible new trust negate the need for associations for future properties? If they build a new resort, they don't necessarily need an HOA since the only owner is the trust. They simply convey all units in a building to the new land trust and file a notice on the number of points added to the trust. Certainly this wouldn't impact Poly Tower since it has been stated it will be part of the existing HOA, but possible that 100% of CFW could simply go into the trust. Though CFW would still have to be part of a master association with the campground since they would share amenities, or perhaps one of the expenses of operating CFW would simply to "rent" amenities from the campground.

It sounds like what these trust type systems are what is called a non specific timeshare plan.

You don’t own, but buy to become a member of a trust which is the owner of the points. The trust has its own assocation. So, I guess there would not be a need for an individual one for each resort.

With Poly tower, it has been said it will join PVB. But nothing requires them to add the entire building to PVB. I think they can make it a dual resort…just like Reflections was originally planned to be part DVC and part hotel.

I am not saying they plan to do this, but it certainly isn’t out of the realm of possible? Maybe that is what the comment “Our plan right now…”. Meaning only some but not all? Obvioulsy complete speculation on my part, but this whole trust idea is not something I ever imagined would be something DVD would consider…

 

[Cfabar1]

I have no interest in owning a portfolio/points/trust system personally.

I imagine a very messy situation unfolding, especially if they start dumping less desirable properties into the system.

Maybe it won't be as bad as I am thinking, but for me, the appeal has always been to own a desirable location or two, and on occasion trade into other desirable locations. The portfolio program could splash a lot of cold water on that potentially.

I do think the ROFR last year could have been a part of laying the ground work about this - but if so, why are they doing so many incentives with those points to sell them right now...

DVC has been quite inconsistent lately, and I am wondering if they don't know what to do right now... The product is in a certain way having a midlife crisis....