Fast Pass Booklets

[lrodk]

We've discussed the possibility of Disney charging a seperate fee for Fast Passes on-demand to a limited number of guests each day. these passes would allow guest who purchase them to use their stubs on any ride(s) in that particular park at any time of their choosing. I've always felt that this was an innevitable off-shoot of the current program, bringing in a new source of revenue for those fixed number of guest who would embrace it. Well, it seems that Universal Studios has lowered the bar first. This comes from their site today:

"Screamscape has been informed that IOA (and we assume USF) are now selling books of Universal Express passes at the front gates that will allow you instant access to any attraction with an Express entrance. Does anyone know how many tickets are in the books and what the price may be?"

If true, you know it's only going to be a matter of time before we see this at Disney's parks. Keep in mind that this would not replace Fast Pass. Likely they would simply offer a limited number of booklets to guests on a first-come-first-served basis, or perhaps as an incentive for on-site guests or for those who purchase certain packages. If done on a small scale, which I suspect would be the only way to do it without putting FP at risk, I think it could enhace the vacation experience for those guests cut for time. Hopefully when it happens they will procede with caution so as not to alienate all of the other guests.

 

[mrtoadslastride]

I assumed that Disney would go this route at some point. I really hate to see it as will really start to divide park guests by how much they can spend.

We use Fast Pass whenever we can in the parks, but it is always annoying when you are in the stand by line and the Fast Passers just breeze by you one after the other. This will only get worse if I know that some of them paid for the right to cut in front of me.

 

[lrodk]

This will only get worse if I know that some of them paid for the right to cut in front of me.

I think the whole trick will be that guests would have no way of knowing who paid and who had a valid FP the way we know it today. Premium FastPass holders would probably share the same lines with regular FP holders, and the only people who would really know for sure would be the cast members who accept the tickets at the entrance to the FP line. Without guests knowing for sure, I really don't see how this would create resentment amongst guests on the regular line.

 

[EUROPA]

Well screamscape is a little late on this news. Universal tried this last year as well. They limit the number of them they sell on a dialy basis. Universal has attempted many things to reduce the amont of time guest wait in line and it seems this time to make a little coin as well. For the frist year or so that IOA opened they gave out FOTL tickets to mulit-day/park ticket holders that was good for each of the more popular rides... as well as early entry for the parks. Let me tell you it was fun. I hope this stays as a very small portion of thier profit which will keep it from replacing Express pass at Universal or the FOTL access. Lets hope the sharks don't get the smell of blood in the water or we will be paying for stuff that should be free.

 

[lrodk]

Yes Europa, I remember when they did that. But the fact that they're charging seperately now for these passes changes everything. I suspect that this is just the beginning of the ever increasing pay-per-use options that guests will have at all of the major parks in Orlando. John Hench at Imagineering had hinted in the past about E-ticket attractions within the parks that would only be available to guests who pay a seperate fee. This may be the first evolution towards that transition. Mr Hench's bold prediction may be a way off, but there's no doubt in my mind that this is where we're heading. If it makes sense in the form of increased streaming revenue opportunities, then you can rest assured that Disney will make it happen. Just think about how for years now they've been unwilling to shell out the tens of millions of dollars that it takes to develop innovative rides like Tower of Terror, Test Track, and Indian Jones, unless of course they could subsidize it through corporate sponsorship. With corporate sponsorship becoming ever more difficult to secure, premium E-tickets may be a viable way for them to fund such projects.

 

[EUROPA]

Originally posted by lrodk
Yes Europa, I remember when they did that. But the fact that they're charging seperately now for these passes changes everything.

Sorry maybe I wasn't clear...they sold the books as well last year.

They also gave away free passes to mulit-day/park holders.

So it still not anything new. It's all up the consumer at this point...if anyone ask you if you would like to pay extra this is your chance to stop it in it's tracks by saying no. Make sure to give them a piece of you mind about it as well.

 

[lrodk]

Thank you Europa for the clarification. You are correct when you say that it's up to the guests with regard to the success or failure of this program. Let me state for the record that i would be one of those willing to purchase these booklets for a reasonable charge.. From my point of view, I would jump all over a booklet of 10 passes for say $20.

I could picture it now....We could get most of the rides out of the way by noon, just in time for lunch, and then go back to the hotel for a pool break and nap. Then return in the early evening and take in the park at a nice leisurely pace. It would almost be like an E-Ride night experience(which can be rather erratic), except early enough for the family crowd and with the rest of the day ahead of you. I wouldn't purchase these every day mind you, but maybe once during the trip, which is about how often we do E-Ride nights. I love the idea.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

if anyone ask you if you would like to pay extra this is your chance to stop it in it's tracks by saying no.

Don't you think that's a little unrealistic? Not that I don't agree with you. But I think if people are willing to pay twelve bucks a copy for three hours of a very limited park when they used to get it for free, they're going to swarm on this concept to avoid several hours in line!

All I know is that three years from now, someone new on the DIS Rumors and News Board will totally not "get it" when I post that Ei$ner created a caste system within the parks just as he did with the resorts!! And I will be very frustrated (again!!!)!!!

Oh well. I'm off to Disney in a few hours!!


WOW!!! Do come off as confused as I feel!!

 

[Bob O]

Have a good vacation DVC!!!
I think it is a bad idea, but one wdw will jump on it successful at USF. I like the free concept at wdw,but making you pay for it makes the parks no better than SF.

 

[EUROPA]

There is a breaking point to this system where they sell so many front of the line tickets that it becomes longer then the max 15 min wait they promise and could end up being just as long as the stand by line....it seems Universal already knows this as well, and that is why they limit the number they sell on a given day. It really does not affect my vacation that much as we go in Nov but I would hate to see this become the norm.

 

[All Aboard]

Wait a minute, hold the phone!!! BobO, have you undergone a renaissance of sorts? I thought you were a big fan of perks such as this for those who could afford it.

 

[Bob O]

gcurling, i have no problem with wdw giving extra fastpasses to resort guests for staying on site. But i dont like the idea of selling fastpass tickets like is done at SF parks. I can see them giving a inducement to stay onsite but not as another item to sell.

 

[Another Voice]

Disney has already begun the process.

Since the opening of California Adventure, many of the vacation packages include a single “good anytime, anywhere” Fast Pass. Higher priced packages include one free ticket for each day and I remember seeing one very high priced package that included a bundle of five “magic” FastPasses per person per day. Basically the more you spend the more tickets you got. Of course Disneyland has far fewer hotel rooms than WDW, but the parks also have far fewer FastPass attractions. The run here is considered a test run for the concept.

Of course, the whole concept is nothing really but a long and expensive way to get all the way back to where Disney started. Is there really that much difference between paying for admission and then either ride surcharges and/or line by-passes than Walt’s good old ticket books? Guests paid a general admission fee and a number of ride tickets. The A through E system served to regulate guest flow through the parks by limiting the number of major attractions a guest could go on (without buying additional tickets), served to direct crowds to under utilized attractions (got to use those C’s on something) and allowed Disney to finance additional attractions by generating additional ticket sales.

In the old system if there were five E-ticket class rides you want to see, you bought five E-tickets. Under the present system the only “cost” to the guest after admission is just time. There was a financial incentive under to old plan for Disney to keep rides open and to offer bigger (i.e. higher price ticket) attractions. Under the present system Disney has no incentive after you pass through the gate. A ride can not be financially justified unless it raises overall park attendance or results in increased food or merchandise sales. Wonder why all the new rides have those photo places?

 

[DisneyKidds]

AV - exactly what I was thinking when I read this, a return to the A-E type ticket system of yesteryear. Of course, admission costs $50 nowadays - I wonder what that would be in 1972 dollars? I assume that todays price is relatively much higher than the 1972 general admission price. Makes it a little distasteful to charge additional money for certain rides. Of course, any such system implemented today will just provide the opportunity for extra rides with less wait, while the general admission still gives you general access.

The one thing I question is the idea that additional revenue from 'premium fastpass' sales will ever really lead to more new big ticket attractions. Assuming they sold 5,000 'premium fastpass' booklets a day at $20 a pop they might net $30 mil in a year - a relative drop in the bucket which they would likely let fall to the bottom line (what car am I in? ). How much does it cost to put in a new E-ticket anyway?

 

[EUROPA]

Well for one reason or another the ticket system was abandoned. I'm sure it was a money issue as someone thought they could make more money by charging a flat rate at the gate. Think about it. " If we charge everybody a high price to get in even the kids and the grandparents who don't ride all of the attractions then we will still be getting money even if they don't ride." Where as with the ticket system you had a lot of freeloaders on the system. People that got in but never purchased the ticket books or shared a ticket book between a few people. Think about all the people that you see in the parks that could not, or would not ever ride an E-ticket attraction. In today’s system that’s ok because Disney has already hit them up when the walked in the park

Were the lines really that better on E-Ticket attractions back then? I really have no idea.

 

[d-r]

I am glad to hear about it at IOA. The reason Melissa and I haven't been there yet - and we keep saying we will go - is because 1. we already have tickets to disney with our passes, and so it seems silly to buy another, and 2. we don't want to stay there, and so we think we would get frustrated waiting in line while people who stay at the IOA hotels get to go to the front of the line. So if we could buy a book of those passes without staying at the ioa hotel we probably would do it.

Also, I would buy them at Disney World - I would hope that you don't have to use them all in the same day or the same park, that would make it a little less worth it to me, but it would be great to have one handy if you took the notion to get on to a ride that had a line. I think I would love it.

As for this being a separation between people who can and can not afford it, I don't buy it really. After you have paid all that money to get to disney in the first place, paying another 10-20 bucks is a choice that you can choose to make or not based on how much it is worth it to you - buy one less mug or t-shirt if you choose to get it, if you would rather have the mug or t-shirt, fine, don't get it. I do not think it is honest to think that there aren't already differences at walt disney world based on ability to afford it - I may choose to spend $150 for dinner at artist point or flying fish, or I may choose to spend $20 for dinner at cosmic ray's or columbia harbor house and use the extra $130 to go to pleasure island and drink beer (a silly example, but my point is, disney world is going to cost money and people can choose how they want to spend it). To me, after we have already paid $300 or whatever for the plane ticket, it would be worth $20 or so to get the fast passes. To us, time is our biggest expense - we usually go for three or four day weekends, and the price would be worth it. Just like e-nights are worth it, when we they used to offer it in months that we go. It is money really well spent if you ask me. I'm sure that other people's opinions will be different, and that is fine - they should choose not to use them. I don't think anyone's experience would be very different - they would have to put out a small number of the passes, and slow down the rates on the fast passes correspondingly, so your guest experience if you choose not to buy them, or are unable because they are sold out, would be the same. I only would hope that you are able to get them before hand at your resort or something because it would suck to have to wake up to get into a sort of rope drop to get them.

DR

 

[Belle1962]

Does anyone really think Disney would only charge $20.00 for this perk? I think that would be great but to keep it "special" and limit it they would probably charge more. (These are, after all, the same people who bring you the $2.50 bottle of water). If they only charged $20.00 (or some other lower fee that EVERYONE could afford) and then LIMITED the number of books available---there would be a rush to get these books to rival the the panic to get Cindy's for breakfast! Even if they limit it to on site guests --there still would need to be some sort of limit on the number of books sold--thus creating a supply and demand situation which could translate to big bucks.

 

[EUROPA]

If I'm not mistaken the ones at USF are for each attraction. One for the Hulk one for Spiderman..and so on. If Disney did do this it might replace something like E-Night in the MK where only 5,000 guest are allowed in. I don't really see the exact same system working at Epcot where there are not enough E-Ticket attractions to take advandage of this. Unless Disney's version included generic tickets that could be used in any park or any attraction. Then again how would they predict crowd levels? Something like this at Disney could wreck traffic patterns. Now you have a bunch of people with Tickets that can go on any ride they chose at anytime. Disney likes to control those patterns and this would not allow them to do so. They could attempt something like limiting the days or time on which they can be used ,Universal did the same thing with earlier versions of Express pass and FOTL access that were included with Multi-day/park ticket holders. Universal does not have the attendace figures that Disney does though so it worked out. In Universal's case they allowed those guest in early as well as limiting the time that a guest could use the tickets. 8-10 depending on opening time of course.

 

[larworth]

From a personal perspective going back to ticket books would be the worst. Last thing I need is another set of $ decisions to impinge on the day. Plus, if you are more on the commando end of the scale you know how good a value you are getting with a fixed admission.

Tickets would provide the best operations data. It would be clear what attractions are the best revenue generators. This should lead to the best overall portfolio of attractions. Might also make it easier to justify something new.

Of course under current management, every attraction would be an independent profit center. Wait times would be replaced with load factor admission prices (like the airlines). Prices would instantaneously change as the queues emptied and filled. A Pressler dream.

 

[YoHo]

According to the Internet inflation Calculator, a $50 ticket in 2001 money would cost you $11.89 in 1972 money.
http://www.westegg.com/inflation/

According to number Gcurling provided last year, the price of a Single Day park addmission has only risen 3 times beyond the rate of inflation since it was introduced. Those three times were all in the 80s since that time it has risen at the rate of inflation fairly exclusivly.