I need some unbiased opinions...

Why did he move in with his daughter and your brother? Sounds like a nightmare. Is he staying there for good? If he moved in like that just because his spouse died, I’d say he probably is a person who doesn’t respect boundaries. That is a tremendous burden to put on a younger couple. I would be sure to put up boundaries on my end. I wouldn’t invite him. It just isn’t a big deal anyway.
 
So, lots of people aren’t reading the part where I have clearly said I have had a change of heart, and I decided to welcome my father in law.

He is part of their “new” family, he was invited by my SIL & brother. I hope it works out well for them all.
 
So, your brother is okay with your FIL living with him, but you don't want to include the same FIL in a couple holiday celebrations?
 
This is not going to come across well & I’m sure I will be criticized just for posting it. But, reading what I bolded... He is a nice person & very kind... you would even welcome a dog. But you are even considering excluding a very nice & kind man.... because he rambles on?? You would treat a dog better than him because he rambles? That just doesn’t seem right.
I would not treat a dog better than him, if that was the impression that post gave you then I did not word it well.

What I was trying to say was that I was wrong and he will be welcomed with open arms. ❤️
 


I'm pretty sure that's exactly what you've said. FWIW, you FIL isn't a part of your brother's new family, as you posted in the post above mine. He's always been a part of their & your family.

Ugh. I’m a big proponent of not doing things because other people guilted you into doing them. Not everyone is an extended family oriented person. Not everyone is social or likes big groups. We are all different. I am not speaking for the OP btw. I think she has been clear and open about how she feels about the situation. Great topic for discussion btw OP.
 


So, lots of people aren’t reading the part where I have clearly said I have had a change of heart, and I decided to welcome my father in law.

He is part of their “new” family, he was invited by my SIL & brother. I hope it works out well for them all.
I alluded to it up-thread, but may I ask what your DH thinks? :flower3: The reason it occurred to me in the first place is that I have a close relative that felt very similarly about her in-laws as you mention feeling about your MIL. Nothing earth-shatteringly terrible ever happened between them - it was just a clash of personalities and they never really got along. She did, however, recognize that her husband loved them dearly and felt very torn by the tension between them. She's no saint herself but for the good of her husband and her marriage, she grits her teeth and gets through things like family holidays. It's a wise approach and as tough as it sometimes is, it's easier than living with the consequences of excluding them and breaking her DH's heart.
 
Ugh. I’m a big proponent of not doing things because other people guilted you into doing them. Not everyone is an extended family oriented person. Not everyone is social or likes big groups. We are all different. I am not speaking for the OP btw. I think she has been clear and open about how she feels about the situation. Great topic for discussion btw OP.
How much more could one person add to the group? I'm not crazy about my MIL either. She treats me horribly & isn't much nicer to DS. If she was anyone but my DH's mother, I'd never speak to her again. Alas, she is his mother, so she's part of my family. She's always welcome here.

I pray that I don't have a DIL that is not an extended family oriented person. No one will ever convince me that it's okay to put my feelings before the feelings of my family. If that is their hope , they're wasting their time. It's not all about me. Unfortunately, there are too many people who think it's all about them. (FTR, I'm not saying the OP is one of those people, because I don't know her.)
 
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How much more could one person add to the group? I'm not crazy about my MIL either. She treats me horribly & isn't much nicer to DS. If she was anyone but my DH's mother, I'd never speak to her again. Alas, she is his mother, so she's part of my family. She's always welcome here.

I pray that I don't have a DIL that is not an extended family oriented person. No one will ever convince me that it's okay to put my feelings before the feelings of my family. If that is their hope , they're wasting their time. It's not all about me. Unfortunately, there are too many people who think it's all about them. (FTR, I'm not saying the OP is one of those people, because I don't know her.)

I often put the feelings of my immediate family before my own, but rarely my extended family. Just too complicating and exhausting. I also hold family to the same standard as friends. They don’t get a pass. I don’t think it is cool for people to walk all over each other. You have to respect other people, family or not, you have to respect boundaries.
 
I often put the feelings of my immediate family before my own, but rarely my extended family. Just too complicating and exhausting. I also hold family to the same standard as friends. They don’t get a pass. I don’t think it is cool for people to walk all over each other. You have to respect other people, family or not, you have to respect boundaries.

I guess it depends on what you consider immediate family. If you consider your child part of your immediate family, you also have to include your parents. Since I don't think there's any question that parents are part of anyone's immediate family, I'll remove them from the conversation. There's nothing complicating or exhausting about participating in the lives of my sisters, nieces, nephews & their kids. I consider all of them my immediate family & have raised my DS to feel the same way. In my experience, if you have a big family & one person can't get along, it's usually not the many that have a problem. Once again, I'm not talking about the OP. I don't know her situation.

If you knew the reasons you wouldn't be.
You're right I don't. It would have to be something really serious to make me not want to be around my sisters, but I do know someone who stole their sister's husband. That would do it for me. Them "rambling on" wouldn't even be on my radar of things I would avoid them for.
 
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I pray that I don't have a DIL that is not an extended family oriented person.
I think a lot of people end up with those who closely align with how they want to be but sometimes things are just different. I think it's when you start to become very specific that things can drift off. It's hard to be an in-law on many sides. Not only for the parent but for the new family member--sometimes expectations of how someone should be according to X creates a certain environment. I also think there's a difference in how one goes about it. Someone may not be an extended family oriented person in their own family but def. willing to adjust for the family they are marrying into. But if they aren't a lot may be how the conversation between spouses occurs. Merging of families can be tough even when things go seemingly smoothly.

I remember when I first really met my husband's former step-mom and she said because I didn't see my grandparents all the time (because that's what they did in her family as grandparents were seen all the time and a part of every little thing) that I must not love my grandparents. It's true that I don't see my aunts, uncle, cousin and my now passed away grandparents all the time (usually a handful of times in a year though in the last 3 or 4 years more often than before) but I loved them very much and from what I had seen we were there for each other far more than her supposedly tight knit family. The impression she got was that we just weren't a close family but the opposite is really the case we just didn't spend every waking moment with each other..like she did with hers.
 
I think now that he lives with your brother and SIL he is part of their “core family”. Any holiday event you’d invite your brother+SIL too, he should be invited to as well unless they come up with their own arrangement about what he/they want to bow out of.
This makes sense, but, OP, I can understand how hard it can be to know it in one's head vs. working it out in one's heart and actions, especially after something as big as a death in the family followed soon after by a major holiday.

I would prefer to have time with just my family...
Totally get this, including all the in-law drama. Holidays can be so hard, in so many ways.

... I am just being a horrible person and letting my bad relationship with my MIL cloud my luke warm relationship with my FIL. :guilty::guilty::guilty:
You're not being a horrible person... you're being a human person, complete with all the feelings and struggles that come with the package. Sharing that struggle doesn't make you a bad person -- I hear you. Give yourself a big hug and hang in there!

So, lots of people aren’t reading the part where I have clearly said I have had a change of heart, and I decided to welcome my father in law.

He is part of their “new” family, he was invited by my SIL & brother. I hope it works out well for them all.
Good for you! I, too, hope it works out for them -- this is a big transition for everyone and a hard time of year for your FIL. One step at a time for everyone...

I would not treat a dog better than him, if that was the impression that post gave you then I did not word it well.

What I was trying to say was that I was wrong and he will be welcomed with open arms. ❤
Well said. Proud of you! Hoping that your Thanksgiving celebration is a true blessing to all involved.
 
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DH's family always celebrated holidays on the actual days. My family, due to work on holiday schedules, blended families, and distance, often celebrated on days other than the actual holidays, like the weekends before or after.

My mother has lived with us for 25 years. (To the pp in post #61, sometimes it's just easier on us to help care for someone in our own homes than from afar.) As she was younger when she first came to live with us, she'd often go off for several days with her sister for holidays, or one of my siblings. But in later years, she couldn't - her sister became ill and passed, and mobility became an issue for her, and it became difficult to climb stairs and such, so she no longer accepted invitations to go away for a few days over the holidays.

I'd say for the past dozen years or so, at least, she has come to all holidays at my in-laws as an invited and cherished guest. On both sides of our families we are "the more the merrier" type people and often have whoever someone wants to invite and no one bats an eye, really. My mother had a favorite spot to sit at my FIL's house, often with a glass of wine or cup of coffee. I'd keep an eye on her, but watch as all day, various family members made their way over to sit and talk to her, some staying for quite a while and seemingly really enjoying the conversation. I think many of my BILs and SILs realize that, of all of us, there are only three elders left at this point on that side and value some of the things that a person of that age literally brings to the table. At any rate, she became part of the holiday norm.

As we fast approach the holiday season, I sit her a little weepy writing this post because my mother is currently on hospice in my home and I really don't know what the holidays are going to bring for me, and us, this season. I think back on all the many holidays over the years and how the people and locations evolved and changed, who was there, and how sad it was when beloved people were no longer there. Year to year you never know what will happen. I think on some level you have to cherish and appreciate each one for what it is, and who is there, even if it's not "perfect" the way we may envision it. Each person there has value to someone and in their own way. That's my best advice today, I've got nothing else. :guilty:

BTW I really loved many of the posts here, including the OP's.

And OP, I got what you were saying about the dogs, too. (They can be put away when annoying! Ours often comes with us but remains crated except for the family mid-day walk.)
 
As someone else said, he is now part of your core family since he lives with brother and SIL. It's just how it is.
 
Wasn't he part of the core family before in moved in? He's the OP's husband's father.

He was -- but now he's core to BOTH sides of her family. I think that's the issue here. She never disputed that he belonged at gatherings for her husband's side of the family, but wondered if she was also obligated to invite him to her side's family gatherings. (In my family, there are certain things that my in-laws and my family combine for, and certain things were each group has their own traditions and celebrates separately.) I think the OP has made the right decision by including the FIL in her family's thanksgiving/christmas celebrations though, especially since he's living in her brother's house.

OP -- for what it's worth, I understand about the rambling. We have a neighbor who is a very nice woman but when you run into her at a neighborhood function she will dominate your attention. She doesn't mingle. She picks one person (often me) and latches on. Once she has you, she will talk FOREVER and never takes a break, so it's very hard to extricate yourself or even get a word in edgewise. And nobody will come to "save you" for fear of being sucked in themselves. (And the reason I think she often "picks me" is because some of the neighbors very rudely "shut her down," I can't bring myself to do that. She is a very nice person and I don't think she realizes what she is doing, but I mentally cringe when I see her heading my way.
 

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