Is anyone as frustrated as me, due to no 2008DDP info yet?????

[Lewisc]

The deletion of the appetizer and gratuity is on Virgin's website and is credible. The snack reduction is a rumor, but the 2007 brochure only promises a half dozen or so snacks. Technically reducing the number of menu items with a DDP logo isn't a plan reduction.

A couple of servers said the tax issue came up in negotiations. I'll speculate, without any credible evidence, Disney may have to start charging tax on the purchase price of the DDP. I'm not sure what loophole Disney is using that allows them to avoid charging us tax on the purchase price of the plan. The final DDP check is zero, I don't think Disney is paying tax based on the menu price of food ordered.

I think Disney has made an official announcement, via Virgin, as to what the 2008 plan will be for UK residents. Most (all?) of us assume the US plan and UK plan will be the same. Many of us hope Disney will change its mind and improve the plan.

Prior to 2005 the Dining Plans were nothing more then a way to pre-pay for your meals, with a very small discount. Disney may go back to that philosophy, until they decide what approach to take.

No single, credible source has said all of these things at once, at at least one (tax) appears to be pure speculation, unless I've missed something.

 

[Leanne1977]

The deletion of the appetizer and gratuity is on Virgin's website and is credible.

I think Disney has made an official announcement, via Virgin, as to what the 2008 plan will be for UK residents. Most (all?) of us assume the US plan and UK plan will be the same. Many of us hope Disney will change its mind and improve the plan.

Thank you for your post.

At least i don't have to convince individuals that my source was credible.

 

[Cinders Mum]

Leanne

Don't go getting upset. Sometimes no amount of evidence is ever enough honey. I have stayed away from this thread for a while as it was making me so frustrated, but hey, what the heck.... I am chuckling now .... and shake my head and move on ....

Val
xx

 

[Lewisc]

Thank you for your post.

At least i don't have to convince individuals that my source was credible.

Everyone, at least in this thread, believes your information on the 2008 DDP as per the Virgin site.

Many of us hope Disney hasn't set the 2008 plan in stone and will improve the plan prior to announcing it to the public at large. Some of us hope Disney gave Virgin the worse possible plan and is still deciding how many cutbacks they can sell to the public.

I think Disney has already done their thinking and what Virgin has is what we're going to get. This will change if too many guests cancel their 2008 dining packages and if too many guests decline the 2008 dining plan.

 

[Leanne1977]

Leanne

Don't go getting upset. Sometimes no amount of evidence is ever enough honey. I have stayed away from this thread for a while as it was making me so frustrated, but hey, what the heck.... I am chuckling now .... and shake my head and move on ....

Val
xx

Thanks hun.

I'm not upset, its just a little frustrating sometimes.
Never mind, i'll keep my na na na na na's to myself.

 

[Brian Noble]

I see two credible sources: Virgin (no tip, no starter), and Len (no tip, reduced snack, tiers). The only thing they have in common is no tip, though presumably the reduction in snack offerings and the addition of tiers could just be details that Virgin knows but hasn't bothered to disclose.

Individual CMs I discount, unless many of them have the same story---too much of the old "telephone game" there. I haven't seen the no-tax thing from many of them, and suspect this is just "no tips" with crossed wires.

As for tax, I suspect they are paying FL sales tax on the dining plan cost, but paying it out of their own end, much as they do for CRT or HDDR, where tax is included in the fixed-price cost. I don't believe one is obligated to collect sales tax separately, as long as the proper amount is paid. Collecting it separately is just a simple way to advertise a slightly lower than actual price.

That may differ from state to state though, I'm sure.

 

[BeckWhy]

I booked a trip for January 2008 last night. I could only book the room because the prices for the tickets and DDP are not available. I asked the CM when she thought the info would be available and she said 1 1/2 weeks. I asked if she knew anything about the changes in the DDP and she said she didn't hear that it would change-except of course of the price. I did ask her about the tip NOT being included and no appts. She said she hadn't heard that at all. I am going to just go with what she said UNTIL I hear other wise!! IF it changes alot-everyone will change the way they stay and eat at Disney!!! I know I will.

I know this has nothing to do with food, but I just called like 20 minutes ago and the guy told me I couldn't book a 2008 trip at all because the prices were TBA.

 

[Lewisc]

JMO but Virign is reporting what Disney told them. That's credible. Len is quoting rumors, he probably has good sources but he indicates it's a rumor.

We have a third source for the "no included tip" which is the 2008 union agreement.

Virgin may not be even selling the upgraded packages.

A reduction in snacks doesn't have to be disclosed. Disney can just include the snacks promised in the brochure and no longer include almost everything that costs $4 or less. The $4 "rule" isn't contained in any plan document.

Sounds like Disney is trying to squeeze money out of the dining plan. It wouldn't be a reach to start charging sales tax on the price of the plan.

I see two credible sources: Virgin (no tip, no starter), and Len (no tip, reduced snack, tiers). The only thing they have in common is no tip, though presumably the reduction in snack offerings and the addition of tiers could just be details that Virgin knows but hasn't bothered to disclose.

Individual CMs I discount, unless many of them have the same story---too much of the old "telephone game" there. I haven't seen the no-tax thing from many of them, and suspect this is just "no tips" with crossed wires.

As for tax, I suspect they are paying FL sales tax on the dining plan cost, but paying it out of their own end, much as they do for CRT or HDDR, where tax is included in the fixed-price cost. I don't believe one is obligated to collect sales tax separately, as long as the proper amount is paid. Collecting it separately is just a simple way to advertise a slightly lower than actual price.

That may differ from state to state though, I'm sure.

 

[hansel1]

JMO but Virign is reporting what Disney told them. That's credible. Len is quoting rumors, he probably has good sources but he indicates it's a rumor.

We have a third source for the "no included tip" which is the 2008 union agreement.

Virgin may not be even selling the upgraded packages.

A reduction in snacks doesn't have to be disclosed. Disney can just include the snacks promised in the brochure and no longer include almost everything that costs $4 or less. The $4 "rule" isn't contained in any plan document.

Sounds like Disney is trying to squeeze money out of the dining plan. It wouldn't be a reach to start charging sales tax on the price of the plan.

I believe that Virgin is giving out this information, however, I don't believe that disney gave virgin that information. This is strickly my opinion, but I would highly doubt disney would give out such information 2 weeks prior to their official announcement.

Len: I don't know this person, so I can't say as to the validity of that information, rumors or otherwise.

2008 Union agreement: I haven't seen a copy of that, has anyone? Until they post it on their website or a union member posts that here, I won't consider it anything more than SERVER PROPOGANDA! DISserver started those rumors a while back before the contract was signed. The contract could also include a clause to remove entrees from the DDP, who know until we read it.

Now, I'm not saying that these things can't happen or won't happen. I'm just explaining that every year their is some major rumor that falls short when disney announces the new Plan and Pricing.

 

[Leanne1977]

I believe that Virgin is giving out this information, however, I don't believe that disney gave virgin that information. This is strickly my opinion, but I would highly doubt disney would give out such information 2 weeks prior to their official announcement.

This was given to Virgin directly from resort. I will watch this thread with interest but i won't bother posting anymore as i think i am just wasting my time.

 

[Lewisc]

I believe that Virgin is giving out this information, however, I don't believe that disney gave virgin that information. This is strickly my opinion, but I would highly doubt disney would give out such information 2 weeks prior to their official announcement.

Virgin is selling Disney packages and contractually Disney has to provide them with information at a particular time. We're now 6 months before the new year. Just my opinion but I think it's ludicrous to suggest Virgin is making up terms of the 2008 dining plan.

Len: I don't know this person, so I can't say as to the validity of that information, rumors or otherwise.

Len is part of the unoffical guide to Disney. He is presenting it as a rumor. Believe it or not.

2008 Union agreement: I haven't seen a copy of that, has anyone? Until they post it on their website or a union member posts that here, I won't consider it anything more than SERVER PROPOGANDA! DISserver started those rumors a while back before the contract was signed.

A couple of long time posters are Disney servers and confirmed these changes. I don't think those posters are lying, I guess you do.

Now, I'm not saying that these things can't happen or won't happen. I'm just explaining that every year their is some major rumor that falls short when disney announces the new Plan and Pricing.

Reduced snacks and increased prices are rumors. Disney has announced the terms of the 2008 dining package to UK residents. Just my opinion but many of us are hoping Disney changes its mind and rolls back some of the cutbacks.

 

[bicker]

I believe that Virgin is giving out this information, however, I don't believe that disney gave virgin that information. This is strickly my opinion, but I would highly doubt disney would give out such information 2 weeks prior to their official announcement.

I think Disney gave Virgin that information, but could have told them that this is the bare minimum they (Disney) would offer for Dining Plan patrons in 2008.

Now, I'm not saying that these things can't happen or won't happen. I'm just explaining that every year their is some major rumor that falls short when disney announces the new Plan and Pricing.

Yes, that's really what I was saying earlier. People are indeed too quick to jump the gun sometimes.

 

[bicker]

Just my opinion but I think it's ludicrous to suggest Virgin is making up terms of the 2008 dining plan.

I agree, but as I indicated above, Virgin may or may not have the final word. Heck, we all know that Disney reserves the right to change the terms of the offering (especially ADDING things to the offering) even after they themselves make an official announcement.

A couple of long time posters are Disney servers and confirmed these changes. I don't think those posters are lying, I guess you do.

Indeed, those specific sources are trustworthy. Posters do lie, fabricate, enhance, etc., but the likelihood of that being the case this time with these specific posters -- pretty close to nil.

 

[Lewisc]

I think Disney gave Virgin that information, but could have told them that this is the bare minimum they (Disney) would offer for Dining Plan patrons in 2008.

Yes, that's really what I was saying earlier. People are indeed too quick to jump the gun sometimes.

The terms of the 2008 dining plan should be publicly announced in the near future. I'll assume Disney gave Virgin a "heads up". Presumably Disney has already crunched the numbers and done some kind of market research. The DDP is "oversold" and Disney probably wants to reduce the number of customers who purchase the plan.

I'm sure if the sales of the 2008 DDP is too low, and the number of guests who cancel their existing 2008 DDP reservations is too high, Disney will fine tune the plan.

You frequently post regarding the importance of a company doing market research. Do you think "internet unrest" will be enough for Disney to change its plans?

Disney will anounce their plan and we'll "crunch" the numbers and decide if it makes sense for us.

Indeed, those specific sources are trustworthy. Posters do lie, fabricate, enhance, etc., but the likelihood of that being the case this time with these specific posters -- pretty close to nil.

particularly when these posters are commenting on a contract provision that was explained to them by union representative and which they read in black and white. It might be different if a server was estimating the % of guests who use the dining plan or the average check size.

 

[hansel1]

particularly when these posters are commenting on a contract provision that was explained to them by union representative and which they read in black and white. It might be different if a server was estimating the % of guests who use the dining plan or the average check size.

Are these the same Union reps that allowed a second vote to pass without informing all their members that the vote was taking place?

You can assume what you like about virgin getting correct information or posting correct information on the 2008 DDP. I believe that their information is not accurate and only time will tell who is correct.

If you know of a long time DIS poster who has been a Server or is now a server, ask them to post a copy of the new contract. While you are at it, ask them if they got to vote on it. Most servers didn't.

 

[bicker]

You frequently post regarding the importance of a company doing market research. Do you think "internet unrest" will be enough for Disney to change its plans?

The Magic 8 Ball says, "Not likely." Disney will likely make their decision based on their vast array of hard-data, collected over the last three years.

 

[disneyquilter]

I'm going to don my flame-proof suit here...this info came from a Disney Dining management person (I asked who he was since I was put on hold twice and transfered to 2 different individuals within Disney Dining). Who knows if this is "rumor" or not, so don't kill the messenger.

I just got off the phone with some manager at Disney Dining. He had said that there will be several tiers to the DDP as of January 2008. All tiers will no longer include gratuity. This he could confirm.

The following information he gave, he said, "cannot be confirmed or denied until the new packages are released" :

The first tier MAY NOT include appy's & snack.

The 2nd tier MAY INCLUDE appy's with the TS meal, but will include no snack.

And the third tier MAY INCLUDE all that we have become accustomed to (CS, TS, + Snack).

All these, he said, may or may not happen, but he could guarantee that the gratuity would not be included in any of these tiers. He said the premium & platinum plan would stay as it is now until the new packages are released.

Again, obviously we are all on a wait-and-watch stance . I just thought I would pass along this info.

I am not worried about it since DH and I probably would buy the plan regardless of the price, since our family only visits WDW once every other year and it is more about convenience of not having to set aside money for food. Everything is paid before we leave.

 

[Merriwind]

Leanne's information about Virgin, as stated, is current at this point. Yes they could change it but also as stated it would have to be to offer more value and not less. So what she has shared is correct, even if others would wish otherwise.

However I don't think you will see that happen. Disney works on these packages for a year, I don't see them changing it after the fact.

As to the snack situation, that was simply a case of they ran out of time prior to the release of the brochures to categorize each and every snack. There are over 1500 different ones offered at WDW. They knew they could not offer all of them.

As many of us know, Sammie has a friend who is a real bigshot in Dining. Info from this source has always been spot on. Based on Sammie's comment, I expect the changes to be just as Leanne and cindersmum reported--no tip, no starter. Unfortunately for many, it looks like a new day is dawing for the DDP.

 

[Brian Noble]

Len is quoting rumors, he probably has good sources but he indicates it's a rumor.

True, but he also ascribes a probability, which he often does not do. And, to be fair, he is wrong more often than some. But, for me, it is a "credibe rumor". That doesn't mean fact, that means possible and likely.

Do you think "internet unrest" will be enough for Disney to change its plans?

I don't. Dollars and cents will be the only thing that matters. And as we all know, a lot of Disneyphiles who claim on line that they will "never visit again" or "not buy <X>" end up doing so anyway.

 

[poeticdiabetic]

I am really beginning to rethink this whole DDP change thing. On counter service meals, there's no tip, so it's only on the table service meals that you would have to tip. If the prices are the same and they keep the appetizers, I could deal with paying my own tip. (average would only be a little over $20 a day.)

Now if you have to pay for the appetizer as well, there could be ramifications... like a reduction not only in DDPs but resort reservations as well. Why? Because many people stay at the Disney resort because of the Extra Magic Hours and the DDP. I could see myself at a lower priced hotel and shuttle into WDW. Heck, then leave at dinner at go to International Blvd, and go to one of those buffets.

But as the DDP stands today, I stay at Disney. Eat at Disney. Play at Disney.