Magic Key Renewals

[Steven G]

I think their big issue was opening the magic keys right before the busiest season of the year, AND when the capacity was still lower than normal. This created the worst possible first experiences for new magic key holders. If they had started the program, in say February, they probably wouldn’t have this bad of a reaction to it.

even though I’m not a key holder, I still think it would have been better to have one bucket for tickets. Ok, maybe a separate one for the hotels. They seriously oversold on the magic keys, and treated the key holders the worst.

 

[gelatoni fan]

I think their big issue was opening the magic keys right before the busiest season of the year, AND when the capacity was still lower than normal. This created the worst possible first experiences for new magic key holders. If they had started the program, in say February, they probably wouldn’t have this bad of a reaction to it.

even though I’m not a key holder, I still think it would have been better to have one bucket for tickets. Ok, maybe a separate one for the hotels. They seriously oversold on the magic keys, and treated the key holders the worst.

I still wonder what sales would have been like if they didn't do the Magic Keys right before Halloween. I was actually willing to do the California resident ticket at that time and probably would have skipped Christmas if not for Magic Keys. But if I didn't have the Magic Keys this year, I would have only done 1 day of park hoppers and skipped out on a lot of other trips to the parks which means a lot less merchandise and food sold. The cost of one 3 day California ticket and 1 day park hopper are less than the cost of my key. I also bought gifts from the parks that I wouldn't not have bought if I didn't have a key.

The other thing is that even with just one bucket for tickets and keyholders, ticketholders still have an advantage with the 120 day reservation window vs 90 day window for Magic Keys. They could shorten the keyholder window even further if it's an issue and this strategy would even allow them to sell more hotel rooms to people who want to guarantee reservations last minute. The prices of Tokyo Disney hotels are 10X higher during New Years Eve than just a couple weeks later precisely because of guaranteed admission to the parks on those dates.

 

[DizneyMommy]

Wow, still nothing. We’ve been really weighing the decision to renew- the first time since 1996 I actually event contemplated it - but maybe the decision has already been made us if they don’t offer renewals. The park is special to us, it has nothing to do with money, it was my high school hangout, our after school treat, and I have thousands of sweet memories with my kids since they were babies. I’m that person giving random families directions or letting a family go ahead in line so they can ride in the front. We adore cast members and always give our appreciation, both directly to them and online/at city hall. We respect the rules and we spend handsomely on food and merchandise. We don’t walk around acting entitled to anything other than the space we are occupying on earth. 26 years straight (except for that dark year we shall not speak of ) without even a flinch of considering not renewing. Through price increases and changes and shrinking of benefits it’s still been our magic place.

This last year with the reservation situation has been frustrating, and I say that as a former Flex holder who had no problem with that system. The games they seem to be playing with availability, after paying over $650 times 4 people I just want to be treated the same in return - with respect. Be fair, be clear, be honest and don’t play games. I really feel like it has come to the point that Disney really doesn’t think passholders are of any value to the parks and they simply think they don’t need our dollars. Maybe they don’t. We moved out of state 5 years ago and since we have family in the area still, we still visit the parks frequently. We’ve seriously considered cutting our trips, and buying tickets at times that bring us joy, Christmas, Fall, birthdays, all times that are heavy with blackout dates or hard to get at all using the AP calendar. Times we’ve had to cut out or cut back and go other times just to get a reservation. But if we do that, we won’t be going crazy with shopping for merchandise, eating everything in sight, or booking extras, because the bite of the ticket purchase is fresh. When you pay for the AP once a year, it’s out of sight out of mind, doesn’t figure in our budget for every trip. We would definitely spend a lot less per year if we choose to purchase tickets instead.

 

[zzzzk]

Comparing it to restaurant reservations actually works in favor of the plaintiffs. Restaurants don't have tiers of guests - it's first-come, first-serve. If this situation were like a restaurant, there would be one pool of reservations, and APs and tickets would have equal access to those spots.

But, honestly, the legal argument isn't entirely that. It's the question of how restricted the AP availability was - especially since they were still selling tickets for those days - and whether Disney was misleading in their advertising by not making it more clear.

How many November Saturday spots were available to Dream Keys? 1000? 500? 2? The number was completely arbitrary on Disney's part and entirely unknown to the purchaser two months out.

I'm not saying they're correct or that they'll win. I'm just saying that you shouldn't dismiss the whole thing out of hand. There are legitimate legal questions here.

I disagree. A restaurant could set aside part of it for special events, etc. When I signed up for magic pass, I did not throw a fit when I could not get a reservation, even though I knew it was not at capacity.

 

[zzzzk]

Written in the lawsuit. "The $5 million suit filed against Walt Disney Parks and Resorts on behalf of all Magic Key annual passholders alleges Disneyland relegated them to “second class” ticket holders by artificially limiting Magic Key reservations and the number of passholders that can visit on any given day"

Out of their own childish, spoiled, snob, mouths, "relegated them to 'second class' ticket holders" I can't believe anyone is defending their cause. Now 1000's of kids will probably not be able to go because of a few complainers. Disgusting.

 

[DisneylandFan22]

Written in the lawsuit. "The $5 million suit filed against Walt Disney Parks and Resorts on behalf of all Magic Key annual passholders alleges Disneyland relegated them to “second class” ticket holders by artificially limiting Magic Key reservations and the number of passholders that can visit on any given day"

Out of their own childish, spoiled, snob, mouths, "relegated them to 'second class' ticket holders" I can't believe anyone is defending their cause. Now 1000's of kids will probably not be able to go because of a few complainers. Disgusting.

I’m still not clear how the lawsuit will cause 1,000 of kids to not be able to go?

 

[kristensideaoffun]

Written in the lawsuit. "The $5 million suit filed against Walt Disney Parks and Resorts on behalf of all Magic Key annual passholders alleges Disneyland relegated them to “second class” ticket holders by artificially limiting Magic Key reservations and the number of passholders that can visit on any given day"

Out of their own childish, spoiled, snob, mouths, "relegated them to 'second class' ticket holders" I can't believe anyone is defending their cause. Now 1000's of kids will probably not be able to go because of a few complainers. Disgusting.

1000s of kids? What does this lawsuit have to do with 1000s of kids? There are not “1000s of kids” not able to go because passholders are suing Disney because they were promised the ability to make reservations 365 days a year without blackouts and then blocked out from going to DLR even though the parks were not at capacity. You keep calling Keyholders “whiney, spoiled, snobs”, but you seem to be the only person whining here… And you also claim to be a Keyholder, but also seem to have a lot of animosity towards them.

Disney caters to the upper middle class and wealthy. They don’t care that “1000s of kids” can’t afford to go to their parks, lawsuit or not. If that’s an issues for you, you should take it up with Disney. Perhaps stop contributing your money to a corporation that cares so little about children.

 

[Steven G]

Written in the lawsuit. "The $5 million suit filed against Walt Disney Parks and Resorts on behalf of all Magic Key annual passholders alleges Disneyland relegated them to “second class” ticket holders by artificially limiting Magic Key reservations and the number of passholders that can visit on any given day"

Out of their own childish, spoiled, snob, mouths, "relegated them to 'second class' ticket holders" I can't believe anyone is defending their cause. Now 1000's of kids will probably not be able to go because of a few complainers. Disgusting.

Are you denying that the effect of the various reservation buckets made them second class, or are you saying that it is true that the buckets did this, but they shouldn’t have filed a lawsuit?

the facts are this… no one, other than Disney,knew before they purchased a magic key how big or small the buckets for key holders would be, simply because there hasn’t been an exact setup like that before. The flex doesn’t count, since that didn’t compete against regular tickets.

when it turned out the magic keys became near useless for the first few months, because it came out right before the busiest season, and capacity still wasn’t back to normal, I can understand their reasoning.

I personally wouldnt sue over this, but I understand why they did.

 

[whiteness]

Are you denying that the effect of the various reservation buckets made them second class, or are you saying that it is true that the buckets did this, but they shouldn’t have filed a lawsuit?

the facts are this… no one, other than Disney,knew before they purchased a magic key how big or small the buckets for key holders would be, simply because there hasn’t been an exact setup like that before. The flex doesn’t count, since that didn’t compete against regular tickets.

when it turned out the magic keys became near useless for the first few months, because it came out right before the busiest season, and capacity still wasn’t back to normal, I can understand their reasoning.

I personally wouldnt sue over this, but I understand why they did.

People were offered a choice of two "top level" passes (or "keys.") For most people, the main difference between the "better" and "best" levels was the ability to visit during the holidays.

Previously, Disney had offered "better and "best" passes, Signature and Signature+, which also blocked or allowed Holiday entry. And, if you paid the extra $$ for the Sig+, you truly were guaranteeing yourself entry into the Parks during the holiday period. Barring the unlikely event that the fire marshal would shut the gates. But, in practice, you'd be able to get in during those two weeks enough times to make it "worth it."

No matter what Disney called these new "passes", people thought Disney was offering them an equivalent choice: forgo holiday access and save some money, or pay a bit extra for holiday access. But, apparently, that's not what Disney actually gave them.

And if Disney marketing somehow didn't realize that people were making that choice when they decided which pass level to purchase, then those people need to be fired. And, honestly, offering a top level pass that doesn't guarantee at least some access during the holidays is a flat out stupid idea.

 

[StormyCA]

Comparing it to restaurant reservations actually works in favor of the plaintiffs. Restaurants don't have tiers of guests - it's first-come, first-serve. If this situation were like a restaurant, there would be one pool of reservations, and APs and tickets would have equal access to those spots.

But, honestly, the legal argument isn't entirely that. It's the question of how restricted the AP availability was - especially since they were still selling tickets for those days - and whether Disney was misleading in their advertising by not making it more clear.

How many November Saturday spots were available to Dream Keys? 1000? 500? 2? The number was completely arbitrary on Disney's part and entirely unknown to the purchaser two months out.

I'm not saying they're correct or that they'll win. I'm just saying that you shouldn't dismiss the whole thing out of hand. There are legitimate legal questions here.

That's not entirely true. My DS1 is good friends with quite a few 'higher end' restaurant owners and most of them do have a bit of a 'system' where a certain number of tables are 'held' for potential reservations by their 'top tier' guests (celebrities, reviewers/influencers, free-spenders, friends). He's often able to get a table when reservations are supposedly 'fully booked'. If those tables haven't been requested by those particular guests then the reservations are released 'day of'

On the MKey issue, I do think that if Disney had worded the Dream and Believe a bit more clearly the lawsuit would have been avoided. Maybe instead of only saying "Reservation-based admission to one or both theme parks every day of the year" and burying the 'if reservations available etc' down in the small print it should have clearly stated in the 'big bold print'; "Subject to availability, reservation-based admission to one or both theme parks any day of the year that reservations are available. Reservation availability is limited and not guaranteed". I think that would have made things clearer.

 

[Steven G]

People were offered a choice of two "top level" passes (or "keys.") For most people, the main difference between the "better" and "best" levels was the ability to visit during the holidays.

Previously, Disney had offered "better and "best" passes, Signature and Signature+, which also blocked or allowed Holiday entry. And, if you paid the extra $$ for the Sig+, you truly were guaranteeing yourself entry into the Parks during the holiday period. Barring the unlikely event that the fire marshal would shut the gates. But, in practice, you'd be able to get in during those two weeks enough times to make it "worth it."

No matter what Disney called these new "passes", people thought Disney was offering them an equivalent choice: forgo holiday access and save some money, or pay a bit extra for holiday access. But, apparently, that's not what Disney actually gave them.

And if Disney marketing somehow didn't realize that people were making that choice when they decided which pass level to purchase, then those people need to be fired. And, honestly, offering a top level pass that doesn't guarantee at least some access during the holidays is a flat out stupid idea.

To build on this, say you purchased a higher end pass explicitly because you can only go on weekends. In the past, you paid for that higher level pass for that reason, so you did the same now.
However, when you decide to book something for a weekend, ALL the weekends for the entire time period that reservations are shown are now not available.

I.e. the pass is now useless for you, since you CAN'T go during the week.

You could say that this person was foolish in purchasing something that it turns out they can't use, etc. Or you could say Disney did a piss poor job explaining the limitations, that they absolutely should have known would happen.

 

[whiteness]

On the MKey issue, I do think that if Disney had worded the Dream and Believe a bit more clearly the lawsuit would have been avoided. Maybe instead of only saying "Reservation-based admission to one or both theme parks every day of the year" and burying the 'if reservations available etc' down in the small print it should have clearly stated in the 'big bold print'; "Subject to availability, reservation-based admission to one or both theme parks any day of the year that reservations are available. Reservation availability is limited and not guaranteed". I think that would have made things clearer.

Maybe, but at the end of the day, people are buying the top-level pass because they want to be able to visit during the holidays. Offering a pass that teases holiday availability, and then lets other guests make reservations for the holidays but not the buyer of the pass, is a non-starter.

If Disney cannot guarantee that everyone buying a pass that doesn't block out holidays will have a chance to visit at least once during the holidays, then they shouldn't bother offering it at all. No matter what legal weasel words Disney tries to use to somehow make it "OK" it's just not OK.

 

[By-Tor and Snow Pup]

Anyway, when are they going to open up renewals? It's now past the 40-day window when the Keys were first released. And come on, 95% of us are going to renew.

 

[brightlined]

That's not entirely true. My DS1 is good friends with quite a few 'higher end' restaurant owners and most of them do have a bit of a 'system' where a certain number of tables are 'held' for potential reservations by their 'top tier' guests (celebrities, reviewers/influencers, free-spenders, friends). He's often able to get a table when reservations are supposedly 'fully booked'. If those tables haven't been requested by those particular guests then the reservations are released 'day of'

But that doesn't relate to what we're talking about. Restaurants aren't holding 30%-70% of their tables for potential VIPs - and, if they do this kind of thing, it's not publicized or even put in fine print somewhere - it's off the record. What you're describing is more like what DLR does with VIP and Club 33.

 

[StormyCA]

Maybe, but at the end of the day, people are buying the top-level pass because they want to be able to visit during the holidays. Offering a pass that teases holiday availability, and then lets other guests make reservations for the holidays but not the buyer of the pass, is a non-starter.

If Disney cannot guarantee that everyone buying a pass that doesn't block out holidays will have a chance to visit at least once during the holidays, then they shouldn't bother offering it at all. No matter what legal weasel words Disney tries to use to somehow make it "OK" it's just not OK.

But the holidays weren't 'blocked out' as Disney uses the term; pre-specified dates where one can't make a reservation to begin with even if there are reservations available. The dates during the holidays weren't available because all the reservations had been snatched up at the crack of dawn by other hoarders pass holders. 'Early bird gets the worm' or 'He who hesitates is lost', I guess.

Although the current language is definitely unclear, I don't think it specifically 'teases' holidays. 'Subject to availability' is 'subject to availability' period, it doesn't make any promises or 'guarantees' that availability will be either more or less at any specific time of the year. If a purchaser infers that there are or will be more availability for any level pass during any specific time of the year based on past programs, that's on them.

People bought the 'all you can eat' Keys based on their past experience of the old AP program rather than approaching it carefully and taking the fine print of 'not guaranteed' to heart. They should have carefully considered "Hmm, this says I may NOT be able to get a reservation anytime I want one!". Disney should have made it more clear that past experience meant nothing and that they should 'read the fine print' and infer nothing. In fact the 'fine print' should have been 'bold print' as I mentioned in my prior post. But 'caveat emptor' is still very good advice today.

 

[StormyCA]

But that doesn't relate to what we're talking about. Restaurants aren't holding 30%-70% of their tables for potential VIPs - and, if they do this kind of thing, it's not publicized or even put in fine print somewhere - it's off the record. What you're describing is more like what DLR does with VIP and Club 33.

I was replying to the poster who said that restaurants were 'first come, first served'. Wasn't really implying anything about Disney specifically.

 

[DontSpamMe]

The take away for me is just because a company like Disney has so much money, control and influence they are still run by the same inept people a lot of us probably answer to everyday.

Announce the renewals already.

 

[brightlined]

I was replying to the poster who said that restaurants were 'first come, first served'. Wasn't really implying anything about Disney specifically.

Yep, you were quoting me.

I said that in response to the previous poster. They were claiming that the Dream Key lawsuit plaintiffs had no right to complain - that they should have expected reservations to work just like a restaurant, and that when they were filled up, they were filled up. My point was that restaurant reservations don't have separate tiers like the Tickets vs AP situation - generally speaking, restaurants either have available reservations or they're booked.

You're right about some restaurants holding a few tables for VIPs, but that's a different thing.

 

[brightlined]

Anyway, when are they going to open up renewals? It's now past the 40-day window when the Keys were first released. And come on, 95% of us are going to renew.

By all accounts, they've killed the 40-day window. (It's no longer mentioned in any of the MK T&Cs.)

I'm not a gambler, but I'd wager mid-August when the Enchant and Imagine Keys are no longer blocked out.

 

[DLRExpert]

Just a few more days