Marathon Weekend 2022

[kps7795]

Never knew they were doing running plans, but I guess with their music no longer getting much airplay that they have time for running these days....

Damn you! Now, I'm going to have MmmBOP stuck in my head when I go out for my run after work today. LMAO!!!

 

[PaDisneyCouple]

Thank you!

I got a survey from rD late last week asking if I was satisfied with their service. Except for the fact that they have provided no service.

My 10k package arrived Friday.

 

[EpcotPhoenician]

Received my virtual 5k kit today! It came via UPS Ground.

 

[CisforCookie991]

Received my virtual 5k kit today! It came via UPS Ground.

Ahh so jealous! I got my 10k stuff on Friday, so hoping I get the 5k today.

FYI for the masses - I know a lot of people recommend signing up the UPS notifications to find out when these are coming. I used to get them last year when the medals shipped from a company in NJ, but since they started coming from a company in Michigan starting with W&D, no notifications at all. They actually don't show up in my UPS account until several days after they've been delivered.

 

[Mr_Incr3dible]

Damn you! Now, I'm going to have MmmBOP stuck in my head when I go out for my run after work today. LMAO!!!

My musical tastes run up to about 1989 and there isn't much after that that I am familiar with. This is to the amusement and much eye-rolling of my wife and our kids.
However, the wife and I play music bingo each week, which is usually me telling her the answers for 1960s and hippie-era 70's tunes and her telling me the answers for 1990 and up. (We overlap in the 70's and 80's rock).

I tell you that to say that when I do know something post-1990, it raises eyebrows around here.
The reaction is usually, "How do you know that?"
Me: "I know things"
Them: [long look] "No you don't. Really, how did you know that?"

Life is a Highway is one such tune, and I had to explain that it is the song I have heard most at 3:30 in the morning.
Truly, when I hear it now, I flash back to the early morning darkness in the corrals, and probably will forever more...

FWIW, other MW musical memories stuck in my head:
The hot diggety dog song
Chariots of Fire while entering the MK for the half.
Hakuna Matata: Belting it out at numerous locations along the various race routes (apologies to all within earshot)

 

[kps7795]

My musical tastes run up to about 1989 and there isn't much after that that I am familiar with. This is to the amusement and much eye-rolling of my wife and our kids.
However, the wife and I play music bingo each week, which is usually me telling her the answers for 1960s and hippie-era 70's tunes and her telling me the answers for 1990 and up. (We overlap in the 70's and 80's rock).

I tell you that to say that when I do know something post-1990, it raises eyebrows around here.
The reaction is usually, "How do you know that?"
Me: "I know things"
Them: [long look] "No you don't. Really, how did you know that?"

Life is a Highway is one such tune, and I had to explain that it is the song I have heard most at 3:30 in the morning.
Truly, when I hear it now, I flash back to the early morning darkness in the corrals, and probably will forever more...

FWIW, other MW musical memories stuck in my head:
The hot diggety dog song
Chariots of Fire while entering the MK for the half.
Hakuna Matata: Belting it out at numerous locations along the various race routes (apologies to all within earshot)

Did you recognize the beats that the DJ was spinning at Blizzard Beach during the marathon? I got really excited when I heard "Tootsie Roll" as I was heading out toward DHS. This brought me back to my college days.

 

[Mr_Incr3dible]

I did not and really don't like rap or hip-hop, so I'm always trying to tune it out; it's just not my thing. I had my tunes going on my Aftershokz and was listening to that, as much as I was hearing much of anything after the long slog from AK. My main thought at Blizzard Beach was how rediculous the tour-de-parking-lot was, and asking myself if I wanted to pick up a discarded bag of ice to put on my head or neck. FWIW, I didn't.
My main memory from the long stretch to BB was someone calling out that we were down to a 10K to the finish line. Gotta like a positive perspective like that.

My other musical memory is from 10 years ago, somewhere around mile 20 where there was a series of speakers blaring Neal Diamond. All I could figure was it was motivation to keep scooting to get past that before it became a bad earworm.

 

[steph0808]

Did you recognize the beats that the DJ was spinning at Blizzard Beach during the marathon? I got really excited when I heard "Tootsie Roll" as I was heading out toward DHS. This brought me back to my college days.

He was blasting Don't Stop Believing by Journey when I was running through. I think I also heard Whitney Houston's I Wanna Dance with Somebody.

Those really put a bounce in my step!

 

[kps7795]

He was blasting Don't Stop Believing by Journey when I was running through. I think I also heard Whitney Houston's I Wanna Dance with Somebody.

Those really put a bounce in my step!

That's really interesting. I wonder if it was a different DJ or if he just decided to switch from 90's hip hop to 80's Pop. When were you there? I was there around 9:30.

 

[DisneyParrothead]

I did not and really don't like rap or hip-hop, so I'm always trying to tune it out; it's just not my thing. I had my tunes going on my Aftershokz and was listening to that, as much as I was hearing much of anything after the long slog from AK. My main thought at Blizzard Beach was how rediculous the tour-de-parking-lot was, and asking myself if I wanted to pick up a discarded bag of ice to put on my head or neck. FWIW, I didn't.
My main memory from the long stretch to BB was someone calling out that we were down to a 10K to the finish line. Gotta like a positive perspective like that.

My other musical memory is from 10 years ago, somewhere around mile 20 where there was a series of speakers blaring Neal Diamond. All I could figure was it was motivation to keep scooting to get past that before it became a bad earworm.

Your musical tastes are almost exactly like mine, and I grew up in the '90s!

 

[steph0808]

That's really interesting. I wonder if it was a different DJ or if he just decided to switch from 90's hip hop to 80's Pop. When were you there? I was there around 9:30.

I was probably there around 8:15/8:30. It was mile 21ish, right?

 

[kps7795]

I was probably there around 8:15/8:30. It was mile 21ish, right?

Exactly.

 

[daustin767]

My wife’s virtual 5k medal & shirt a delivered yesterday evening.

 

[kps7795]

Yes. Plenty sufficient. Any good marathon training plan (which includes Hansons) is sufficient for Goofy or Dopey. Be sure to read the book cover to cover to reap all the benefits.

If you don't mind, I have a couple of questions for you concerning training plans for Hansons and Daniels. I am unsure about using the Hansons plan with 6 days a week of running. Obviously a LOT of people have used their plan to great success, but is that not too much running? What do you think based upon your experience with Hansons and Daniels respectively? When I trained for the marathon, I was running 5 days a week (Tuesday-Thursday and Saturday-Sunday). Hence, I was partially leaning toward using Daniels for 5 days a week, but I feel lost without guidance about distance. If I understand correctly, you should base your initial runs upon your peak mileage (.8P). How would one even go about figuring out what your peak mileage should be?

The other thing that I wanted to ask is how to avoid crashing again. My longest training run was 18 miles. I am a SLOW runner and I know that I ran too much based upon what Daniels et al say about maxing your run at 2 1/2 hours. Nonetheless, my right leg seized up on me at Mile 22 and I slowed down tremendously from DHS to the Finish Line. I was hydrating every 1/2 mile and taking a gel every 30 minutes. Was the cramping the result of not having trained enough or do you believe that it was something else? I tried researching this online and am getting frustrated because some sources say that it was an electrolyte imbalance and other sources say that that is inaccurate. Thank you in advance. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

 

[DopeyBadger]

I am unsure about using the Hansons plan with 6 days a week of running. Obviously a LOT of people have used their plan to great success, but is that not too much running?

It's all relative. In my view, current fitness relative pacing (effort) X duration = miles. The "miles" to me is mostly irrelevant and instead I focus on the current fitness relative pacing and duration. If two runners of vastly different fitness levels run for roughly the same amount of time at roughly the same effort level, then they're going to get similar adaptations to that training run (with a few variables like what's going on on other training days, stress, nutrition, etc. not withstanding). Just boiling it down simply, those two runners could have covered 4 miles and 8 miles, but both done 60% effort for 60 min and the effect of the training is similar.

So with that in mind, whether the Hansons book plans is too much running is relative to your current fitness level if you follow the mileage based plan. For someone aiming for a 7 hr marathon, Hansons is probably too much. For someone aiming for a 4 hr marathon, it's in the right place more or less. For someone aiming for a 2:30 marathon, it's probably not enough. I go through some of the calculations when considering training load in the following links. Training load is much the same as the idea of Effort X Duration.

Training Load Calculations on Different Training Plans for Different Fitness Profiles
Training Load Calculations on Different Training Plans for Different Fitness Profiles: Part 2

What do you think based upon your experience with Hansons and Daniels respectively? When I trained for the marathon, I was running 5 days a week (Tuesday-Thursday and Saturday-Sunday).

I've done several iterations of Hansons plans and have found great success. I only attempted the Daniels marathon plan once (Chicago 2018) and got what I believe to be an unrelated ankle tendonitis injury due to a recent move in running location to more cambered streets.

It is definitely possible to run a good marathon on a good 5 day a week plan. It's also possible that a well followed 6 day plan will yield better results. All of us individually speaking have upper limits on duration capabilities when it comes to run training. I've seen some flourish at 6-7 hrs per week, and not do as well with 8-9 hrs per week. I've seen others do better at 8-9 hrs per week than 6-7 hrs per week. I've got one guy that does his absolute best at 12-14 hrs per week (not recommended volume level for most).

Hence, I was partially leaning toward using Daniels for 5 days a week, but I feel lost without guidance about distance. If I understand correctly, you should base your initial runs upon your peak mileage (.8P). How would one even go about figuring out what your peak mileage should be?

My advice is not to increase your total weekly duration of training much more than a few hours from your last training plan. So if peak week in your last training plan was 4 hrs, then see how a well balanced/designed 6.5 hrs training plan goes. If you've done 6.5 hrs peak week and done well with it, try 8 hrs as a peak week the next time around. Once you know how many hrs per week, then you can back calculate how many miles that would be by roughly using your current fitness pacing and choosing a value about mid-point between your assigned long run pace and easy pace.

The other thing that I wanted to ask is how to avoid crashing again. My longest training run was 18 miles. I am a SLOW runner and I know that I ran too much based upon what Daniels et al say about maxing your run at 2 1/2 hours. Nonetheless, my right leg seized up on me at Mile 22 and I slowed down tremendously from DHS to the Finish Line. I was hydrating every 1/2 mile and taking a gel every 30 minutes. Was the cramping the result of not having trained enough or do you believe that it was something else? I tried researching this online and am getting frustrated because some sources say that it was an electrolyte imbalance and other sources say that that is inaccurate. Thank you in advance. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

There are a myriad of possible reasons why you'll crash during a marathon. I've done quite a few (15-16?) and would say I've only not suffered a true fade twice (never a cramp though, just a fatigue induced stop). That's despite my best efforts when it comes to pacing, nutrition, goal setting, adjustments due to temperature, etc. A marathon is super tough. So don't get super hung up on a single attempt and trying to perfect your marathon experience. It's really really hard if you're going for a maximal effort.

The first place to start is your training. Not so much that you didn't go far enough, but if the training was poorly balanced, trained too fast, etc. as plenty of other reasons why the marathon experience can suffer. So getting in "good" training for a marathon is probably going to explain 85% of the fade experience.

I'm a proponent of finding your maximum tolerance of nutrition intake in training. So I'm consuming 96g carbs/hr when I race a marathon as an example. Some can't tolerate that much while running and need to do less. So in training, try to find your maximum with something you can tolerate. That's a good place to start with carb consumption. Electrolytes can be imbalanced as well and there's lots of good products out there that when taken appropriately can be helpful. There are also extreme electrolyte solutions for those that really need a lot, but be wary of using it if you don't truly need that much.

eta- Alsp be wary of online calculators converting your HM or less times into a marathon prediction. Most of those calculators represent a time that only about the Top 6% actually achieve. The average runner tends to be quite a bit slower than those predictions.

 

[GreatLakes]

If you don't mind, I have a couple of questions for you concerning training plans for Hansons and Daniels. I am unsure about using the Hansons plan with 6 days a week of running. Obviously a LOT of people have used their plan to great success, but is that not too much running? What do you think based upon your experience with Hansons and Daniels respectively? When I trained for the marathon, I was running 5 days a week (Tuesday-Thursday and Saturday-Sunday). Hence, I was partially leaning toward using Daniels for 5 days a week, but I feel lost without guidance about distance. If I understand correctly, you should base your initial runs upon your peak mileage (.8P). How would one even go about figuring out what your peak mileage should be?

@DopeyBadger already gave you a lot of great information above. I wanted to give you my perspective using Hanson for the first time for this past MW because I had a lot of the same questions you had. MW 2022 was my 5th full. I'm not a high mileage runner and for all 4 of my previous fulls I used a 5 day plan that had multiple 20 mile runs because I just thought that is what you did. I used Hanson's 6 day a week plan which peaked at 18 miles and ran a PR (11 years older than my previous PR), felt better than I ever had during marathon training, and felt great after the race. I finished the race with a BQ, stayed at Epcot from open to close walking just under 80,000 steps that day, and woke up Monday feeling no more sore than after a training run.

Before this plan I could count the number of weeks in the past 17 years that I did 6 days of running on one hand. I was a little worried about overdoing it but came out of it extremely happy. My advice would be the following:

• Get and read the Hanson book if you haven't already.
• If you don't already do a lot of slow running (relative to your max HR) do it. I didn't really value the long, slow aerobic base building for years but it is key to a successful marathon in my opinion.
• Start increasing the frequency of your runs now. You don't have to even add mileage but get used to going out on slightly fatigued legs.
• The Hanson plan is the first one I did that didn't follow the long run with a rest day. I think using that long run fatigue and running the next day is a key part of their program.
• Listen to your body. I had some days I knew I shouldn't run and I skipped the day. If you do that, however, take a look at the plan and adjust. Did you skip an easy day or one of the workouts? I made sure I only skipped easy days and if I skipped a workout that is what I did a day late and made a few adjustments after that day to line back up the workouts and easy days.

I am altering the Hanson advanced half marathon plan (fair warning @DopeyBadger but I will likely shoot you a DM asking a few questions in the future) in an attempt to run the W&D challenge with a sub 40:00 10K and sub 1:30 half I feel that good about what the full plan did to my speed and endurance.

The other thing that I wanted to ask is how to avoid crashing again. My longest training run was 18 miles. I am a SLOW runner and I know that I ran too much based upon what Daniels et al say about maxing your run at 2 1/2 hours. Nonetheless, my right leg seized up on me at Mile 22 and I slowed down tremendously from DHS to the Finish Line. I was hydrating every 1/2 mile and taking a gel every 30 minutes. Was the cramping the result of not having trained enough or do you believe that it was something else? I tried researching this online and am getting frustrated because some sources say that it was an electrolyte imbalance and other sources say that that is inaccurate. Thank you in advance. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

The marathon is rough and there might not be a single reason for what happened to you. I'm not sure you'll really be able to know for sure unless you had some blood and tissue samples taken right at the finish line and analyzed. You know your body better than I do but I think a gel every 30 minutes is too much. How did you feel going into that marathon? Not just physically but mentally. Did you taper without completely stopping running? Was the trip down delayed which added stress? Did you have a big project at home or work on your mind leading up to the race? Don't underestimate the mental aspects of stress when running a physically demanding race.

 

[kps7795]

I'm pretty sure I have a tibial stress fracture - symptoms sound right and the x-ray was very suspicious (bone changes in the area but no fracture seen.) I'm having an MRI to confirm and see how bad it is. If, in fact, I cannot run, does anyone know if I can cancel either for a refund or future credit? We're going anyway since my husband is running and we're making a family trip of it. I guess I could always just grab the shirt and skip the race, but I'd rather save the $ for a future race.

If you don't mind me revisiting your old post, what happened with your suspected tibial stress fracture? Also, what symptoms were you experiencing that led you to seek medical treatment and made you believe that you might have a stress fracture? I ran way too fast going downhill chasing after a 2:07 POT and I was subsequently feeling pain in my right shin when I started running again following a week off of running. Additionally, I was aware of the pain in my shin when walking up stairs. Does this sound at all like what you were experiencing? Thank you for any feedback that you can give me. It's rather frustrating not knowing what's wrong with your body.

 

[XoxoAmy]

If you don't mind me revisiting your old post, what happened with your suspected tibial stress fracture? Also, what symptoms were you experiencing that led you to seek medical treatment and made you believe that you might have a stress fracture? I ran way too fast going downhill chasing after a 2:07 POT and I was subsequently feeling pain in my right shin when I started running again following a week off of running. Additionally, I was aware of the pain in my shin when walking up stairs. Does this sound at all like what you were experiencing? Thank you for any feedback that you can give me. It's rather frustrating not knowing what's wrong with your body.

I had a stress fracture in my shin this past January/Feb, and couldn't run the Princess HM as a result. I had a persistent, slightly mild pain for a few weeks, and eventually when I felt it just walking around during day to day life, I got an MRI. It took a while to get the MRI done and then visit again with the doc to review the results (2-3 weeks total) so the MRI showed the beginning of a stress fracture, or that it had healed somewhat. I stayed off it for 6 weeks and started running again in March. I was able to run the 10k and 10M during SS in April, which I didn't expect but was so happy to do.
As far as symptoms, it was a dull pain that was slightly different than just a sore calf. And it was only on one leg. In the middle of my shin, on the side, it was very sore to the touch and if you ran your hand along the side of the bone, there was a slightly raised bump in the sore area. (Not that I should be diagnosing anything!) It's annoying for sure. I have been taking calcium supplements to hopefully strengthen the bone and avoid a repeat injury. Though I forget on some days (I really need to be consistent, but I hate taking pills). I'm also going to add Vit D supplements too. Hope yours isn't serious!

 

[kps7795]

I had a stress fracture in my shin this past January/Feb, and couldn't run the Princess HM as a result. I had a persistent, slightly mild pain for a few weeks, and eventually when I felt it just walking around during day to day life, I got an MRI. It took a while to get the MRI done and then visit again with the doc to review the results (2-3 weeks total) so the MRI showed the beginning of a stress fracture, or that it had healed somewhat. I stayed off it for 6 weeks and started running again in March. I was able to run the 10k and 10M during SS in April, which I didn't expect but was so happy to do.
As far as symptoms, it was a dull pain that was slightly different than just a sore calf. And it was only on one leg. In the middle of my shin, on the side, it was very sore to the touch and if you ran your hand along the side of the bone, there was a slightly raised bump in the sore area. (Not that I should be diagnosing anything!) It's annoying for sure. I have been taking calcium supplements to hopefully strengthen the bone and avoid a repeat injury. Though I forget on some days (I really need to be consistent, but I hate taking pills). I'm also going to add Vit D supplements too. Hope yours isn't serious!

I'm glad to hear that you're feeling better. In addition to the MRI, did you also get an X-ray? If so, did the X-ray give any indication of the stress fracture?

 

[camaker]

I'm glad to hear that you're feeling better. In addition to the MRI, did you also get an X-ray? If so, did the X-ray give any indication of the stress fracture?

As I understand it, an x-ray can confirm the presence of a stress fracture if it's bad/advanced enough, but it can't rule one out because they often don't show up in mild or early stages. That's where the MRI comes in.