News Round Up 2017

[lockedoutlogic]

Oh, I would THINK more likely due to Toy Story...that's assuming they see the ads that will start coming out around.

Not to say that Avatar isn't a good land....but Disney got boned on this one. They went into the deal in 2012 with Cameron under the (stupid) assumption that he would have sequels out by the time they opened the park. Now it's 5 years later and no sign of sequels, and Avatar has ZERO cultural impact anymore. (If it even had any in 2012.) If they are lucky Cameron can pull another rabbit out of a hat with the sequels and impress people enough to re-envigorate interest. I never had an issue with them doing the IP, because I thought it could be a really interesting land, but honestly in terms of getting people to come to Florida, there is almost NO boost beyond "Hey Disney has something new let's check it out."

Toy Story on the other hand continues to be popular with kids - in fact we are at a point now where the kids who grew up on Toy Story are having kids of their own. (Think if they were 5 in 1995, they are 27 now.) So when the marketing push coming for TSL, and the 5 year old with his dad's buzz lightyear says "Oh boy!" then they're may just go. Not saying the "boost" here will be significant enough to tell the difference, but yeah that would be my first pick.

But neither compare to Star Wars. The only thing CLOSE to Star Wars is Harry Potter, and I think I would rank Star Wars higher because you have the parents were raised on Star Wars, whereas Harry Potter is still mostly a young people base, with some older generation that likes it as well. (I would say of family's we know, probably about 20% of the kids and maybe 10% of the parents like Harry Potter, while Star Wars is more like 50% of the kids and 40% of the parents.) I still think that Disney's biggest issue might be underestimating how much demand there is going to be if they do this right - though that is not a terrible problem to have.


Back ON TOPIC: Do they have the models out in the new Walt Disney Presents area? I thought those would be here by 9/8/17.

Yep...

...that's all I got

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Oh, I would THINK more likely due to Toy Story...that's assuming they see the ads that will start coming out around.

Not to say that Avatar isn't a good land....but Disney got boned on this one. They went into the deal in 2012 with Cameron under the (stupid) assumption that he would have sequels out by the time they opened the park. Now it's 5 years later and no sign of sequels, and Avatar has ZERO cultural impact anymore. (If it even had any in 2012.) If they are lucky Cameron can pull another rabbit out of a hat with the sequels and impress people enough to re-envigorate interest. I never had an issue with them doing the IP, because I thought it could be a really interesting land, but honestly in terms of getting people to come to Florida, there is almost NO boost beyond "Hey Disney has something new let's check it out."

Toy Story on the other hand continues to be popular with kids - in fact we are at a point now where the kids who grew up on Toy Story are having kids of their own. (Think if they were 5 in 1995, they are 27 now.) So when the marketing push coming for TSL, and the 5 year old with his dad's buzz lightyear says "Oh boy!" then they're may just go. Not saying the "boost" here will be significant enough to tell the difference, but yeah that would be my first pick.

But neither compare to Star Wars. The only thing CLOSE to Star Wars is Harry Potter, and I think I would rank Star Wars higher because you have the parents were raised on Star Wars, whereas Harry Potter is still mostly a young people base, with some older generation that likes it as well. (I would say of family's we know, probably about 20% of the kids and maybe 10% of the parents like Harry Potter, while Star Wars is more like 50% of the kids and 40% of the parents.) I still think that Disney's biggest issue might be underestimating how much demand there is going to be if they do this right - though that is not a terrible problem to have.


Back ON TOPIC: Do they have the models out in the new Walt Disney Presents area? I thought those would be here by 9/8/17.

Yep...

...that's all I got.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

well, obviously enough nuts out there that they are bringing it back. and like I said, all the response I saw from people that did this (and the morning paid one) was extremely positive - obviously from people that can afford the $ / don't mind paying it but they all said it was worth the $ to them

Respectfully...I think you are misreading that.

This is just sawing a day down and reducing the "event" operating cost to almost nothing...It's not much of an "investment" on their part.

If you believe in reasonable deduction...based on pattern (my dear Watson)...then the likely scenario is that disney REALLY wants this...and they let the dust settle after a miserable product failure (those don't happen much at wdw...but have happened notably recently)...now they're trying again.

"Pay no attention to the man behind the cash register"

You made a well reasoned assessment of this early today...but it was a short term one for the customer's perspective.

The right long term for this is the same one that happened last year: rejection.

It's not about 3 hours in January or February...it's about acceptance of chopping up normal operations days for literally no advantage to the customer. It's not crowded on those days anyway...this is a greased slope.

But you've heard this before.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

For families? definitely more will come for Toy Story Land. I have heard of some really big Avatar fans who never wanted anything to do with Disney now making trips because of Pandora, but obviously that is a relatively small number

I do think there could be a bit of of an uptick in guests next year after Toy Story Land opening as between that and the positive feedback from Pandora combined is a bit of a draw - and some people wanting to get a trip in before the craziness of Star Wars

Lol...how many "really big avatar fans"

Over/under 5?

 

[lockedoutlogic]

News

Festival of the Holidays at Epcot

https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/b...ember-19/?CMP=SOC-DPFY17Q4wo0914170920170006C

Food and wine part 4?

Boy...I wonder if anyone has talked about this kinda thing before

(Remember...we're always looking for new members on the kickball team...)

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Lol...how many "really big avatar fans"

Over/under 5?

I'll go on record as > 0

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I'll go on record as > 0

I'll put that in the "w" column for me...

My point was (not to stray)...that avatar might be a great land, but it's always gonna be hampered by little outside desire for the IP...

It might get a bit of a bump from sequels...but this never was a "disney" type property...

I think it's safe to say that if they had closed on Lucasfilm earlier - the Cameron thing likely dies. Was a desperation move and they exposed their neck a bit more than they're comfortable with on this one.

 

[MermaidMommy]

I believe same hours but it was $149 so actually lower now

So I assume they are trying to attract a few more people and thus would figure each night will feel slightly less exclusive but still pretty low head count even compared to holdisay parties

I think it was $119 last year, the same as this year. The $149 price was when it was first offered, in 2016. I don't think they had to give tickets away at the $119 price the same way they did at $149.

 

[rteetz]

Lol...how many "really big avatar fans"

Over/under 5?

Not a fan of the movie but a huge fan of the land.

 

[MissGina5]

Boy, I tell ya what, Petey...

Are we entering one of these bizarre "agreeing with each other" periods again?

I totally agree with your AHM post (more on that when I have time...)

But let me ask you on this one:

What do you think would be more likely-
A family plans for an trip due to avatar?
Or a family plans due to toy story?

I'm not saying either is likely...just what is more plausible?

I know I am not a family I am one woman with two best friends buuut we DEFINITELY are planning a trip around Toy Story Land (just... not until it stops being hot again...)

 

[no one]

Respectfully...I think you are misreading that.

This is just sawing a day down and reducing the "event" operating cost to almost nothing...It's not much of an "investment" on their part.

If you believe in reasonable deduction...based on pattern (my dear Watson)...then the likely scenario is that disney REALLY wants this...and they let the dust settle after a miserable product failure (those don't happen much at wdw...but have happened notably recently)...now they're trying again.

"Pay no attention to the man behind the cash register"

You made a well reasoned assessment of this early today...but it was a short term one for the customer's perspective.

The right long term for this is the same one that happened last year: rejection.

It's not about 3 hours in January or February...it's about acceptance of chopping up normal operations days for literally no advantage to the customer. It's not crowded on those days anyway...this is a greased slope.

But you've heard this before.

But you have completely ignored the fact that it includes complimentary ice cream and beverages. So it is totally worth it

 

[lockedoutlogic]

But you have completely ignored the fact that it includes complimentary ice cream and beverages. So it is totally worth it

Of course...

Though if you eat the value in coke and Mickey bars per hour...you'd be dead by hour 3...

Heck of a body count

 

[no one]

Of course...

Though if you eat the value in coke and Mickey bars per hour...you'd be dead by hour 3...

Heck of a body count

Honestly, I am one that is not against spending for special experiences on vacation. I am a mint on the pillow type guy. Spent crazy amount for a suite at a boutique hotel in London this Spring, paid for personal tours of London for the family while there. I am not a crazy thirty times a year WDW visitor. Second trip coming in April, we stay Club level. Basically I am lockedoutlogic's anti-christ.
With that said I dont see this as being special enough to justify the cost. I spend money for unique experiences but this is just riding on less crowded rides. While it is nice to have no lines, the actual ride experience is the same. Now if they showed me the inside of Space Mountain with the lights on. . .
But that ice cream and Coke does have me thinking.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Honestly, I am one that is not against spending for special experiences on vacation. I am a mint on the pillow type guy. Spent crazy amount for a suite at a boutique hotel in London this Spring, paid for personal tours of London for the family while there. I am not a crazy thirty times a year WDW visitor. Second trip coming in April, we stay Club level. Basically I am lockedoutlogic's anti-christ.
With that said I dont see this as being special enough to justify the cost. I spend money for unique experiences but this is just riding on less crowded rides. While it is nice to have no lines, the actual ride experience is the same. Now if they showed me the inside of Space Mountain with the lights on. . .
But that ice cream and Coke does have me thinking.

I'm so misunderstood...

I've spent a lot of money on travel...and I like "expensive hotels and experiences"...

My 9 year old has been to wdw 23 times I think...kinda lost track...

I'm not cheap nor anti travel at all. Gotta have fun on your one stint on this spacerock...

But I know the business angles and tactics at disney...and the management approach right now is awful longterm. It's not a "quarterly growth" type place...it's a stable ship that grows organically with good stewardship and cuts through both smooth seas AND rough ones. And unfortunately I know what's really overcharged at Disney and what's just "partially" overcharged.

This tactic of trying to repackage and recharge for the same products is going to really hurt longterm...and why I implore to reject silly things like this is I know at some point it's gonna be "that place sucks anymore"

That will be true if you allow the current overtanned suit to suck every penny out now for his own personal ego/legacy.

Slow and steady...what always worked is still the best way.

 

[rteetz]

News

In an unprecedented move by WDW, all CMs who were scheduled to work on Sunday and Monday will be paid for those shifts!!

Many have discussed how CMs weren't paid last year when Hurricane Matthew closed the parks because it was an "act of God." It was just announced today that CMs who lost their Sunday and Monday shifts will be paid accordingly!!

Go CMs!! Go Disney!!

 

[lockedoutlogic]

News

As it should be

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I think it was $119 last year, the same as this year. The $149 price was when it was first offered, in 2016. I don't think they had to give tickets away at the $119 price the same way they did at $149.

Wow...the years fly by...

You are correct...it was 2016 that it flopped at $149. 2016 will be the "year of the flop" with that ridiculous cabana too.

This past year it was $119/$89 dvc. So for some reason $50 an hour for $15 an hour rides was "not ok", while $ 40 an hour is?

I will never understand doing things against one's own self interest - same as voting in the US - but it comforts me that neither will any economist.

 

[jlundeen]

Wow...the years fly by...

You are correct...it was 2016 that it flopped at $149. 2016 will be the "year of the flop" with that ridiculous cabana too.

This past year it was $119/$89 dvc. So for some reason $50 an hour for $15 an hour rides was "not ok", while $ 40 an hour is?

I will never understand doing things against one's own self interest - same as voting in the US - but it comforts me that neither will any economist.

I think you are assuming that "cost" is the same thing as "value". It's not. For some, the cost is secondary to other priorities. It's a personal decision on how to spend your own $$, and not up to anyone else's approval.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I think you are assuming that "cost" is the same thing as "value". It's not. For some, the cost is secondary to other priorities. It's a personal decision on how to spend your own $$, and not up to anyone else's approval.

Are you talking about market pricing?

I've never heard that before!

(Ok...that was necessary...sorry)

The other reality is that bad product - every single day - fails. As this should because people sacrifice their long term interests for short term lack of thought.

This seems like "it's my opinion, so I'm not wrong"...but the problem there is just not true...never was, never will be.

This thing does two things horrible for the consumer:

1. It causes them to separate normal days into multiple ticket events...and that is the most dangerous of slopes.
2. It causes their analysts to look at "what else they can sell?". I've been there...it's bad...it's not a situation of "personal preference" you want to get into.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I'm so misunderstood...

I've spent a lot of money on travel...and I like "expensive hotels and experiences"...

My 9 year old has been to wdw 23 times I think...kinda lost track...

I'm not cheap nor anti travel at all. Gotta have fun on your one stint on this spacerock...

But I know the business angles and tactics at disney...and the management approach right now is awful longterm. It's not a "quarterly growth" type place...it's a stable ship that grows organically with good stewardship and cuts through both smooth seas AND rough ones. And unfortunately I know what's really overcharged at Disney and what's just "partially" overcharged.

This tactic of trying to repackage and recharge for the same products is going to really hurt longterm...and why I implore to reject silly things like this is I know at some point it's gonna be "that place sucks anymore"

That will be true if you allow the current overtanned suit to suck every penny out now for his own personal ego/legacy.

Slow and steady...what always worked is still the best way.

Are you talking about market pricing?

I've never heard that before!

(Ok...that was necessary...sorry)

The other reality is that bad product - every single day - fails. As this should because people sacrifice their long term interests for short term lack of thought.

This seems like "it's my opinion, so I'm not wrong"...but the problem there is just not true...never was, never will be.

This thing does two things horrible for the consumer:

1. It causes them to separate normal days into multiple ticket events...and that is the most dangerous of slopes.
2. It causes their analysts to look at "what else they can sell?". I've been there...it's bad...it's not a situation of "personal preference" you want to get into.

I certainly don't disagree with the overall thought process/concerns here. I definitely think Disney has become to near-term focused - as as much as I know and accept they need to make the shareholders happy, at the end of the day the DIS stock is a long term play not a growth stock/day trading stock and part of the value is in the name and franchise and loyalty of the customer - and negatively impacting that will negatively impact the stock long term.

The challenge for them in the parks is that one of the biggest complaints is the crowd levels - so how do they address that? Adding in more parts of the day is one way to do that and to provide an experience for those that truly view the crowds as a deterrent. What would you realistically do to address the crowds? And yes, we can say they should have built three more theme parks and starting expanding DHS and EPCOT 20 years ago - but they didn't and we are where we are and they are addressing it now (at least to some extent). What else can they do? Cap the number of people in the park and double the price?

To me the bigger concern is the drop in quality that is already being seen and the potential for it to drop further when you hear about them eliminating staffing, etc. You see things like the monorail failing apart, overflowing trash cans, Traditions being reduced from 3 days to less than 1 - those are more warning signs to me than costs or trying to figure out other ways to make more revenue. I see Disney as a luxury brand and the experience needs to match that. It used to - I know when we went as kids the one thing my mother always commented on was how clean the place was - not sure she would say that anymore. And so now if you have first timers go and they dont' see the "magic" and go back and mention the negative things to their neighbors who were considering a first trip, maybe now they don't take it.