No the Magic isn’t gone but it’s at 25%

[ForWhomTheMouseTolls]

So, my major question is:

If the magic is gone where did it go? Is someone holding it hostage? Did Bob Chapek eat it? Did Bluey take it with her to Australia? Did Mickey decide to hang up his ears? Was he replaced with an imposter.

This is a crime. We need to get the FBI involved.

 

[xipotec]

They want:

1. Lower crowds
2. More extensive offerings
3. Lower pricing

Which, obviously, is a completely untenable business proposition. But maybe if they wish hard enough, it’ll happen!

its possible , its just not popular for the CEO living in an age where Wall Street dictates double digit profits quarterly….

Disney could provide that level of service, they just dont wanna….

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

Look at MK. The park with the most attractions of all the parks. It's a great example of whats missing from the other parks. We all want more rides like FOP but right now the parks not named MK need capacity in the worst way. I'm not saying to add a bunch of off the shelf attractions. Another that would help is adding new attractions and not just replacing them.

My dream has always been to see them finish World Showcase as originally planned.

I do get your point, but look at all the additions, and you’ll see they’ve added those types of rides alongside the headliners. For instance journey with Ariel in MK, Navi river in Pandora, smugglers run in SWL, and as you mentioned swirling saucers. They don’t work as I think you would hope, if 20k people want to do ROTR, it doesn’t matter what other rides you have, lines aren’t going to die. The only exception I can think of is the shows in HS, the shows there definitely helped, but they were eating up a couple thousand people all at once for over an hour

 

[Jrb1979]

I do get your point, but look at all the additions, and you’ll see they’ve added those types of rides alongside the headliners. For instance journey with Ariel in MK, Navi river in Pandora, smugglers run in SWL, and as you mentioned swirling saucers. They don’t work as I think you would hope, if 20k people want to do ROTR, it doesn’t matter what other rides you have, lines aren’t going to die. The only exception I can think of is the shows in HS, the shows there definitely helped, but they were eating up a couple thousand people all at once for over an hour

IMO it's not about getting those 20k people to do something else. It's about giving those 20k people other things to do in the park on top of that ride.

 

[Jrb1979]

So, my major question is:

If the magic is gone where did it go? Is someone holding it hostage? Did Bob Chapek eat it? Did Bluey take it with her to Australia? Did Mickey decide to hang up his ears? Was he replaced with an imposter.

This is a crime. We need to get the FBI involved.

It disappeared when Chapek said the CMs are the entertainment.

 

[Mamiamjo]

I mean, if you put it like that I think everyone can agree. I would just like Disney to make more than the big E-tickets like Rise and Guardians. In my perfect scenario I would want Disney to build something like this at WDW:

Doesn't have a height requirement, never gets a long wait at it's home park (HKDL), extremely well themed and a great use of the trackless ride system.

Interesting. For some reason it makes me think of a cross between MMRR, HM and The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh

 

[mercuryvenus]

its possible , its just not popular for the CEO living in an age where Wall Street dictates double digit profits quarterly….

Disney could provide that level of service, they just dont wanna….

View attachment 674709

Less revenue (from fewer attendees and lower prices) + more expense (from more expansive offerings) = eventually going out of business.

 

[Smugpugmug]

Interesting. For some reason it makes me think of a cross between MMRR, HM and The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh

This ride, Mystic Manor, is actually Hong Kong Disneyland's version of Haunted Mansion due to laws in HK about depictions of ghosts and skeletons. I've never ridden this myself but I would LOVE something similar to this in the US parks in terms of theming and the animatronics. I'll take this over Runaway Railway and Remy any day.

 

[twoplustwins]

All these changes and a large increase in price AND it was still packed last week. It will likely be our last visit unless some good changes are made.

 

[mmackeymouse]

In any of the previous iterations of this FP system, you would have had a long exhausting day of cris-crossing if you were trying to do every attraction in MK and even some of the other parks.

Planning - again you only knew three of your ride times. And with the tiered system they were not likely to be your top 3 choices. If there was a tiered FP system right now at say DHS for example, you would likely have to pick ONE(1) of RotR, Smugglers Run and SDD with the others either having to be rope dropped our take your chances on additional FP being available. Lots of uncertainty there as well. Everyone can have different opinions on if this is a major change to planning. I thought it would be based on what I read in this forum. I watched Molly's videos, read tips and made a plan. We found we were able to stick to our plans quite easily with the biggest issues coming from rides being down which would be a wrench in our plan using any of the previous systems as well.

I'm not arguing if this is a lesser product or a better product. In my mind it was a lesser product as soon as they decided to charge for it. My point is that this is just another capacity management system, there are ways to maximize your value with this system (especially at MK and DHS) and I disagree completely with those who keep asserting that the current system has a lower maximum potential of resource gathering (attraction capacity), with the data we are seeing form thrill data showing the complete opposite so far. Another part of my overall larger point is that I have seen the changes from FP to FP+ to Genie+, and I think a lot of the people who say it is a disaster and doesn't work are looking at it from an emotional perspective and not a rational perspective.

The bolded part is untrue. I was able to do commando every-ride Magic Kingdom under the FP+ system without criss-crossing the park. I was able to do it land by land for the most part. I may have had to circle back to a couple of lands for some rides. But, for the most part I was able to do a cluster of attractions at one time before moving on.

This isn't possible with the current model. You either have to criss-cross the park between attractions. OR you kill time for 45 minutes here and there before going to another attraction, because there isn't LL availability nearby.

Yes, you only knew 3 ride times.....but 3 ride times is enough to create a decent outline of your day ahead of time. Again....ahead of time. You'll know which rides around those 3 attractions will have a short wait. You'll know which rides around those 3 attractions you'll probably be able to stack FPs on short notice. You'll be able to come up with a general game plan. Ahead of time are the key words here.

You'll know when to make ADRs. You'll know when to take your mid-day break.

With this system...you won't even know where you are starting your day until 7:05 am. How much planning can you do without even knowing where you are starting from? You might know what you are hoping for, you might know what you are shooting for. But...you won't know anything for sure. From there, you have an hour-ish to formulate some sort of game plan based on your best guesses of what LL will be. But, even with that, without knowing times...who knows?

I have no doubt that Genie+ can be useful. I also have no doubt that....if you go into the park with no agenda at all, you're tapping in and just taking the next available Lightning Lane...and then stacking...you could probably LL a decent number of rides. It will probably be worth it for a lot of people.

For planners, especially touring plan type planners, where you want to know you will have these 6 specific attractions done by lunch, or whatever the case may be.....I just struggle to see how planning is possible.

 

[john7994]

So, my major question is:

If the magic is gone where did it go? Is someone holding it hostage? Did Bob Chapek eat it? Did Bluey take it with her to Australia? Did Mickey decide to hang up his ears? Was he replaced with an imposter.

This is a crime. We need to get the FBI involved.

Probably somewheres between Athens, GA and Tuscaloosa, AL?

 

[xipotec]

Less revenue (from fewer attendees and lower prices) + more expense (from more expansive offerings) = eventually going out of business.

Incorrect. It is not that cut and dry. You can offer a service at a reasonable price point with new offering and do very well…

They did it for years, decades actually….

 

[mercuryvenus]

Incorrect. It is not that cut and dry. You can offer a service at a reasonable price point with new offering and do very well…

They did it for years, decades actually….

I really disagree that Disney offered their product at a price point that is reasonable for most families for decades. It has nearly always been very expensive — at least for the past 20-30 years.

 

[2goofykiddos]

Genie + works pretty well for those of us that find rope drop way too crowded and stressful. We can stack several throughout the day, show up when we want, then hit the big attractions again later in the evening when the lines are the shortest.

Yes but you still have to get up at 6:45. If I’m up I’m going in.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

I really disagree that Disney offered their product at a price point that is reasonable for most families for decades. It has nearly always been very expensive — at least for the past 20-30 years.

Agreed, this seems to be a personal preference argument, so what is considered reasonable, and to who? I think Disney is starting to price out people who were able to afford it, and that’s where the problem lies. I’m sure there are people out there who could never afford to go, unfortunately no one is entitled to a Disney vacation

 

[john7994]

Agreed, this seems to be a personal preference argument, so what is considered reasonable, and to who? I think Disney is starting to price out people who were able to afford it, and that’s where the problem lies. I’m sure there are people out there who could never afford to go, unfortunately no one is entitled to a Disney vacation

I think you are right, there is a huge element in personal preference at play, especially to what is considered "reasonable". The key word being reasonable. As I have posted before, the US Population alone has grown by over 100M people since the 70s - along with shifting wealth demographics of what is affordable and to whom. This is not a "satisfying" answer for many, but it is the reality of the current situation in terms of crowding, uniqueness in scale of these parks, and guest mix.

At the same time, Disney has over-amplified publicly its recovery strategy from the pandemic in terms of monetization, which leaves most fans scratching their hands as to their value and loyalty over the years. This is a far more disruptive step-change than I believe Disney may have accounted for in advance. Add in a few other missteps and poorly timed engagement in national social policies, and you have a significant wave of dissatisfaction. While no one is "entitled" to a Disney Vacation (or any vacation for that matter), I think its valid to feel disappointment/resentment in no longer being able to afford what one could in the past.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

I think you are right, there is a huge element in personal preference at play, especially to what is considered "reasonable". The key word being reasonable. As I have posted before, the US Population alone has grown by over 100M people since the 70s - along with shifting wealth demographics of what is affordable and to whom. This is not a "satisfying" answer for many, but it is the reality of the current situation in terms of crowding, uniqueness in scale of these parks, and guest mix.

At the same time, Disney has over-amplified publicly its recovery strategy from the pandemic in terms of monetization, which leaves most fans scratching their hands as to their value and loyalty over the years. This is a far more disruptive step-change than I believe Disney may have accounted for in advance. Add in a few other missteps and poorly timed engagement in national social policies, and you have a significant wave of dissatisfaction. While no one is "entitled" to a Disney Vacation (or any vacation for that matter), I think its valid to feel disappointment/resentment in no longer being able to afford what one could in the past.

I don’t disagree, I just think sometimes it comes off as whining, Disney has definitely made missteps I don’t think that is arguable, but I can’t wrap my mind around people demanding a change in their business model to ensure they individually benefit from it. it’s like I really want a Tesla, so I’ll demand they drop their price so that I can afford it.

The market will bear what the consumer is willing to pay for, and right now, they’re willing to pay for an awful lot

 

[john7994]

I don’t disagree, I just think sometimes it comes off as whining, Disney has definitely made missteps I don’t think that is arguable, but I can’t wrap my mind around people demanding a change in their business model to ensure they individually benefit from it. it’s like I really want a Tesla, so I’ll demand they drop their price so that I can afford it.

The market will bear what the consumer is willing to pay for, and right now, they’re willing to pay for an awful lot

The car analogy has come to mind for me a lot.

To be fair, its a heavy emotional issue for some based on years of supporting the parks. Its hard to discount this, and I don't think there are a lot of satisfying answers right now either. At the same time, there is a thread of animosity which seems overly much for whatever reasons seem justified to those individuals. I can't speak to that personally.

As always, somewhere in the middle is a level of reasonableness mirroring your earlier comments.

 

[bakenatj]

Disney was actually planning on getting rid of Fastpass+ before the pandemic. Covid was just their excuse to do so. The system actually made them lose money.

I know most people don't have time to watch an almost 2 hour video, but this video really put into perspective just how broken Fastpass+ really was. Not saying Genie+ is better and that Disney should charge more. Just made me think about trips I took pre-pandemic.

Was that video produced by Poseidon Entertainment? Sounds like him. He does great stuff and is very interesting. I watched the two hours and was very impressed.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

but I can’t wrap my mind around people demanding a change in their business model to ensure they individually benefit from it

For this part what are you meaning? I was following the conversation fairly well but not exactly sure on this one