Poll: Your Riviera Resale price

[stewart715]

Understand that Disney is selling to those that are asking that the reason for the resale restrictions is that "Members are demanding further differentiation from resale buyers."

I can believe this, to a degree. People don't like paying more for something than someone else; especially substantially more. Though, I think they are hiding behind what is likely a minority of direct owners.

Re: $100, thanks for sharing. Not surprised at all and I think big contracts (300+ could go somewhere in the 80s-90s). 70% of those in this poll say $100 or less, so that's right on with that (though not scientific).

We all take comfort in knowing that SSR and OKW are there if we need them last minute for a trip. If there are no rooms left at Riviera and you want to travel < 7 months out or even < 11 months out in some cases, you simply need to let those points go to waste or find another time to travel or maybe rent them or give them away. We at least know a room will probably be there for us at SSR/OKW if not others via a split stay. Or if a rare find opens open for this coming weekend at any of the properties and you decide you want to go. Trading offers a lot of flexibility, freedom and offers some change to your trips (over what is a very, very long contract).That's a big deal, I think.

 

[jlb727]

I don’t know if this was the original plan, but I would not be surprised if when Reflections is further along they amend Riviera resale contracts to say that Riviera resale owners can stay there or Reflections and that’s it. I doubt they will fully roll back the resale restrictions.

I cannot see any scenario where Disney is okay with Riviera resale going for $100 a point based on how upscale they have marketed this resort and how aggressive they are being with direct sales.

 

[stewart715]

I don’t know if this was the original plan, but I would not be surprised if when Reflections is further along they amend Riviera resale contracts to say that Riviera resale owners can stay there or Reflections and that’s it. I doubt they will fully roll back the resale restrictions.

I cannot see any scenario where Disney is okay with Riviera resale going for $100 a point based on how upscale they have marketed this resort and how aggressive they are being with direct sales.

They aren't going to create two clubs in that sense. And I think the resale values of $100pp is exactly what they want on the resale market. They are positioning Riviera resale it as a second rate, stripped (benefits wise), portion of what DVC offers. When you buy Riviera resale, you're not buying DVC; you're buying a little piece of DVC and the price will reflect that. That's their position, anyways.

And once Riviera sells out, the low resale prices give them a nice revenue stream of flipping points. I think they see how picky buyers are about what resorts they want, so in order to capitalize on that, they need a low ROFR price point.

My guess is the marketing for "sold out" resorts changes drastically and "you can enjoy the magic at any resort!™"

 

[Bing Showei]

I know Disney doesn’t make a point of propping up the market, but if this passes ROFR before the Riviera even opens, that would make Guide conversations with current owners interested in Riviera a lot more difficult.

Part of me wishes the Riviera resale story didn’t get as much play as it has gotten. Given a history of not buying back current resorts, if this does get taken, I’ll attribute that to the spotlight this broker has shined on it (note to self: never sell with this broker).

 

[Drewferin]

I almost think we need a new poll... I for one would be interested in resale points at Riviera for $100 a point. I wonder how many others also had this thought?

 

[Bing Showei]

I almost think we need a new poll... I for one would be interested in resale points at Riviera for $100 a point. I wonder how many others also had this thought?

If the market shakes out to Riviera selling at $100 resale in today’s dollar, that would give me pause about owning there at all given that it will suddenly become the cheapest on-site property.

SSR would surrender the title to Riviera, and draw in a contingent of the market that buys the cheapest entry into Disney’s timeshare possible, all of whom will be competing to get in when their booking window opens. Additionally, Riviera’s gloss, once the newness wears off, will be further tarnished with a reputation as the cheapest way to buy a Disney timeshare until Reflections with an even less ideal geography/transportation system takes up the mantle.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

They aren't going to create two clubs in that sense. And I think the resale values of $100pp is exactly what they want on the resale market. They are positioning Riviera resale it as a second rate, stripped (benefits wise), portion of what DVC offers. When you buy Riviera resale, you're not buying DVC; you're buying a little piece of DVC and the price will reflect that. That's their position, anyways.

And once Riviera sells out, the low resale prices give them a nice revenue stream of flipping points. I think they see how picky buyers are about what resorts they want, so in order to capitalize on that, they need a low ROFR price point.

My guess is the marketing for "sold out" resorts changes drastically and "you can enjoy the magic at any resort!™"

A resale price that is relatively close to direct price has always been the easiest and probably most solid argument from DVC to purchase direct vs resale though. For a low enough price people will take the chance on the resale. It'll take quite a budget for DVC to buy back any and all resale and if they started doing that then the prices would rise. But if they rise then there will probably be a smaller pool of people who will offer on it which means fewer or no offers so the price is dropped until an offer is gotten. Then people who would otherwise be direct buyers will say no thanks, the pricing risk is too great if I want or have to sell. So what happens? DVC has no one to sell those points to so they stop ROFRing. Then pricing drops and the appeal again is big compared to direct pricing because in the end, once you get past the emotional marketing aspect of "club" and "member" the point of DVC is a lower cost deluxe room onsite.

 

[SG131]

I almost think we need a new poll... I for one would be interested in resale points at Riviera for $100 a point. I wonder how many others also had this thought?

I might consider contract that I’d use once every three years at maybe $90ish a point. It would have to be a low enough price point to buy enough points to use in the summer to hopefully avoid some of the difficulty of getting a reservation that is bound to happen.

 

[CarolMN]

It's one contract. The resort isn't even open yet. It means nothing as far as a predictor of future sales prices.

 

[stewart715]

It's one contract. The resort isn't even open yet. It means nothing as far as a predictor of future sales prices.

If anything it is likely to be higher after open because there is more risk involved in purchasing a contract with such restrictions when not a single person has stayed there. So, I think the $100 is a good sign for a resale contract pre-open.

 

[Matty B13]

Even at $100/point it is still a huge risk for anyone, and even if you buy at $100/point, you could still lose money.... because DVC can change the rules of these contracts at anytime, especially for resale owners.

 

[AdamsMum]

So cats out of the bag with Pete's most recent blog post on DVCfan - so since it's not longer "insider" knowledge I can share. The Riviera contract that went up for sale was posted at $133 but it SOLD for $100. No idea yet if it passed ROFR yet. Now this is one single contract and we have no idea how stressed the seller was - but it is NOT a good sign for Riviera resale market to start. I honestly don't think the price will start this low, but I could really believe that the price settles that low in few years.

Understand that Disney is selling to those that are asking that the reason for the resale restrictions is that "Members are demanding further differentiation from resale buyers." which is IMO complete BS. This does NOT help the direct buyer at all, and in fact it PUNISHES the direct buyer that has the misfortune of having to sell. In addition, in 10-15 years when there are a lot of resale contracts at the resort, those owners will all be booking at 11 months with no other options, making direct owners having a harder time booking at their own resort.

I do hope the sales are slow and that Disney rolls back the restriction "due to Member Demand".

Does anyone know how many points the contract was for?

 

[PolyRob]

Does anyone know how many points the contract was for?

175 points. It is also still listed on the broker's website as sale pending.

 

[anomamatt]

How long was the contract listed? The sellers must have been absolutely desperate... I would have paid more than $100... I bought RVA direct and would happily add points at $100-125/pt.

I'm shocked they listed it so low. And did they accept the first offer they got?

Maybe I'm way off... I assumed we'd see $150 for the first few resale contracts.

 

[jarestel]

Buying a contract and reselling so quickly (before the resort even opens) probably says more about the original purchaser than it does the actual resale value of Riviera. I know there are a number of folks who are actively hoping for Riviera to fail because of the resale restrictions but this one case isn't necessarily a reason to begin the drinking and singing.

 

[Greg36]

I think it is pretty sad... I can't imagine what must be going on in their lives that led to taking that kind of a loss so quickly.

I think the current restrictions will have an impact (maybe the quality of the resort will help offset these) but for me it is the potential of what other restrictions DVC might put forward that I would be factoring into the price. DVC seems to be trying to set themselves up here to be able to make changes going forward to the system that would further differentiate resale buyers and direct buyers when it comes to Riviera. I would be worried about something like a differentiated booking window, especially if competition gets extreme at 11 months and they start getting serious complaints from direct buyers.

 

[stewart715]

I think it is pretty sad... I can't imagine what must be going on in their lives that led to taking that kind of a loss so quickly.

I think the current restrictions will have an impact (maybe the quality of the resort will help offset these) but for me it is the potential of what other restrictions DVC might put forward that I would be factoring into the price. DVC seems to be trying to set themselves up here to be able to make changes going forward to the system that would further differentiate resale buyers and direct buyers when it comes to Riviera. I would be worried about something like a differentiated booking window, especially if competition gets extreme at 11 months and they start getting serious complaints from direct buyers.

I had the same thought. Whatever it is, it can’t be good. Sad to see.

But this is exactly why this sale is meaningless as a reflection of the market. They clearly needed money and needed it fast.

 

[thelionqueen]

I’m curious to see if Disney exercises ROFR. I cannot imagine it’ll go through... but if it does, that’s very telling imo. As an aside, me, my BF and my two grown sons all took the DVC tour this earlier this year. Every one of us got a follow up call in the last 2 weeks with additional incentives if we bought at riviera. I told him there is NO chance I’m buying Riviera .. sorry. Never mentioned what the extra incentives were but we all got the same call. That to me indicates soft sales at Riviera even though the guides insist it’s selling like hot cakes

 

[anomamatt]

Buying a contract and reselling so quickly (before the resort even opens) probably says more about the original purchaser than it does the actual resale value of Riviera. I know there are a number of folks who are actively hoping for Riviera to fail because of the resale restrictions but this one case isn't necessarily a reason to begin the drinking and singing.

Agreed. The more I think about this, I wonder if this wasn't an estate situation. Perhaps the owner passed away and the estate took the first offer they were given. My wife would probably do the same. ;-)

If this was a financial trouble situation... I would assume that purchaser would have a loan and they won't (can't) be selling at $100...

Who knows, but I agree that these first situations are going to be outliers in terms of what to expect.

 

[Greg36]

I agree that you should not draw inferences based on a single data point and really we don't know the circumstances surrounding this individual case so even making assumptions about this one case is difficult. With that said, I do have a hard time coming up with a scenario where in the absence of these new restrictions we see this contract selling for $100 pp. Even with a highly motivated/distressed seller, in this current environment (minus restrictions), I think it sells for quite a bit more.