POT (Proof of Time) Race Equivalency Cutoff Confirmed Times

[camaker]

This is my THEORETICAL POT cutoffs at this moment in time. The marathon one is definitely not set in stone because we haven't seen anything for marathon weekend yet. But a 4:15 HM fits snuggly on the same 2:00 HM cutoff line. So I'm going with that for the time being.

View attachment 585737

I also added in a submission of a Marathon for a HM POT.

‘Looks like that sub-4:00 marathon came at just the right time for me! Assuming I can get registered, that is…

 

[GollyGadget]

How strict do we think they are about usatf certification? In the past, it really just needed to be a race with online results that they could verify. Between being injured most of 2019 and 2020 being a lemon of a year, I've only got one 10k to use as POT and as far as I can tell the course wasn't usatf.

 

[DopeyBadger]

How strict do we think they are about usatf certification? In the past, it really just needed to be a race with online results that they could verify. Between being injured most of 2019 and 2020 being a lemon of a year, I've only got one 10k to use as POT and as far as I can tell the course wasn't usatf.

The only way to say definitively is to email runDisney at disneysports@trackshack.com. But like you said, in the past it didn’t have to be USATF despite it being listed on the site. Think of international runners, they would never have a USATF certified course.

 

[CP3uhoh]

We've never registered for Dopey before, do they ask you what you're anticipated finish for the full would be and then you can submit a half or 10-miler time as POT and they place based on what their conversion is if it verifies?

 

[jmasgat]

We've never registered for Dopey before, do they ask you what you're anticipated finish for the full would be and then you can submit a half or 10-miler time as POT and they place based on what their conversion is if it verifies?

Yes. RunDisney typically has this verbiage......"Goofy's Race and a Half Challenge and Dopey Challenge participants should adhere to Full Marathon proof of time requirements." So 10 mile, half or full marathon race results would be used.

 

[DopeyBadger]

We've never registered for Dopey before, do they ask you what you're anticipated finish for the full would be and then you can submit a half or 10-miler time as POT and they place based on what their conversion is if it verifies?

You will see a question asking for your anticipated marathon finish time (like this):



If you answer above whatever the cutoff is for the marathon (let's say 4:15 for sake of an example), then you'll see a question like this where you choose a range for an estimate:



However, if you select under 4:15, then you will be prompted to input a POT (for which a marathon POT needs to be a 10 miler, HM or Marathon as @jmasgat said). But you will not be asked for an estimated pace block (like non-POT are doing) for the HM/M if you input a POT. In the past, they used to do both a POT and an estimated pace block, but people were being seeded by the estimated pace and not what the POT said they were capable of. So despite qualifying for "A" corral by POT, if they said they actually planned on running a 5:00 hours estimated finish, then they were seeded at 5:00 hours. Some people got upset because they wanted the buffer on race day that the POT would grant them. So runDisney eventually got rid of that duel question.

Now, after a POT submission for HM/M portion of Dopey, you'll also see the following question:



So you will be separately seeded for the 5k/10k based on the answer to this question.

*Keep in mind, all of this can be changed after registration up to POT cutoff day (October 2021). So don't fret/waste your time on this during actual registration. You can edit this at a later time (like right after securing your bib).

 

[CP3uhoh]

You will see a question asking for your anticipated marathon finish time (like this):

View attachment 586577

If you answer above whatever the cutoff is for the marathon (let's say 4:15 for sake of an example), then you'll see a question like this where you choose a range for an estimate:

View attachment 586578

However, if you select under 4:15, then you will be prompted to input a POT (for which a marathon POT needs to be a 10 miler, HM or Marathon as @jmasgat said). But you will not be asked for an estimated pace block (like non-POT are doing) for the HM/M if you input a POT. In the past, they used to do both a POT and an estimated pace block, but people were being seeded by the estimated pace and not what the POT said they were capable of. So despite qualifying for "A" corral by POT, if they said they actually planned on running a 5:00 hours estimated finish, then they were seeded at 5:00 hours. Some people got upset because they wanted the buffer on race day that the POT would grant them. So runDisney eventually got rid of that duel question.

Now, after a POT submission for HM/M portion of Dopey, you'll also see the following question:

View attachment 586579

So you will be separately seeded for the 5k/10k based on the answer to this question.

*Keep in mind, all of this can be changed after registration up to POT cutoff day (October 2021). So don't fret/waste your time on this during actual registration. You can edit this at a later time (like right after securing your bib).

So theoretically the cutoff is 4:15, let's say. I say under 4:15 and I have a Half POT of 1:49, from what I've seen of the hypotheticals based on what we know so far, Corral B correct?

 

[DopeyBadger]

So theoretically the cutoff is 4:15, let's say. I say under 4:15 and I have a Half POT of 1:49, from what I've seen of the hypotheticals based on what we know so far, Corral B correct?

Correct. You would be in Corral "B" for the HM/M. Then for the 5k/10k your placement will be dictated by the estimated pace you put. So if you put 15-16 min/mile for the 5k/10k estimated pace, despite having a 1:49 HM POT for the HM/M, you would be place in the last corral for the 5k/10k.

And honestly, I could even see a legitimate argument to say that runDisney will do away with the delineation between Corral "A" and "B". The group together is only 8-12% of the field and far smaller than most other corrals have been in the past. So the incentive to keep them separate when they're the only one left may easily be gone. But that remains to be seen.

 

[CP3uhoh]

Correct. You would be in Corral "B" for the HM/M. Then for the 5k/10k your placement will be dictated by the estimated pace you put. So if you put 15-16 min/mile for the 5k/10k estimated pace, despite having a 1:49 HM POT for the HM/M, you would be place in the last corral for the 5k/10k.

And honestly, I could even see a legitimate argument to say that runDisney will do away with the delineation between Corral "A" and "B". The group together is only 8-12% of the field and far smaller than most other corrals have been in the past. So the incentive to keep them separate when they're the only one left may easily be gone. But that remains to be seen.

Appreciate the confirmation, as well as all your other posts on here that clearly require a lot of your time. I doubt I'm the only one that finds it very useful. Thanks again.

 

[Baloo in MI]

So a 10 Mile Race can be used as a marathon or Dopey POT? I had always thought it was only a Half or Full that could be used? Can anyone correct me if I am wrong.

 

[DopeyBadger]

So a 10 Mile Race can be used as a marathon or Dopey POT? I had always thought it was only a Half or Full that could be used? Can anyone correct me if I am wrong.

A 10 mile race can be used for Marathon, Goofy, and Dopey. Although based on their conversions it doesn’t appear to offer any conversion advantage over a HM. But it does offer the advantage of being a shorter distance. This is in contrast to using a 10 miler or M for a HM POT which does offer a distinct conversion advantage over the shorter distances.

 

[huskies90]

I am pretty sure my best 10K time converts to a faster time than my best half for Wine and Dine but I’ll ask the expert @DopeyBadger anyway:

10K = 42:53
Half = 1:35:04

 

[Baloo in MI]

I am pretty sure my best 10K time converts to a faster time than my best half for Wine and Dine but I’ll ask the expert @DopeyBadger anyway:

10K = 42:53
Half = 1:35:04

Both of those times are impressive!

 

[Baloo in MI]

A 10 mile race can be used for Marathon, Goofy, and Dopey. Although based on their conversions it doesn’t appear to offer any conversion advantage over a HM. But it does offer the advantage of being a shorter distance. This is in contrast to using a 10 miler or M for a HM POT which does offer a distinct conversion advantage over the shorter distances.

Thanks! Good to know it is an option as both myself and my daughter will need POT’s. If we can do it together that would be great. Now I can look at 10 Miler options and Half’s.

 

[BikeFan]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the POT window for Marathon Weekend hasn't been posted yet, right? I'm wondering if they'll go back as far as W&D does, which takes races back to Jan. 1, 2019. I'm hoping that carries over to Marathon Weekend, but I guess we'll have to wait and see!

 

[DopeyBadger]

I am pretty sure my best 10K time converts to a faster time than my best half for Wine and Dine but I’ll ask the expert @DopeyBadger anyway:

10K = 42:53
Half = 1:35:04

T2 = T1 X (D2/D1)^1.055

T2 = 42:53 * (13.11/6.22)^1.055

T2 = 1:34:17

So based on this calculation, the 10k time is slightly better than the HM time. Both of those would easily qualify for what was the previous "A" corral cutoff.

Thanks! Good to know it is an option as both myself and my daughter will need POT’s. If we can do it together that would be great. Now I can look at 10 Miler options and Half’s.

Cutoffs are a bit of an unknown at the moment, but in theory:

4:30 M cutoff = 2:08 HM and 1:35 10 miler
4:15 M cutoff = 2:00 HM and 1:30 10 miler
4:00 M cutoff = 1:53 HM and 1:25 10 miler

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the POT window for Marathon Weekend hasn't been posted yet, right? I'm wondering if they'll go back as far as W&D does, which takes races back to Jan. 1, 2019. I'm hoping that carries over to Marathon Weekend, but I guess we'll have to wait and see!

You are correct. We know when the deadline is (10/21/21 from memory), but we don't yet know the other side of the window. I'm guessing somewhere between January 2019 to March 2019 based on the 2021 Wine and Dine window.

 

[huskies90]

Both of those would easily qualify for what was the previous "A" corral cutoff.

Agreed. Normally, I wouldn’t even bother asking. But this year, I don’t want to assume anything.

 

[Herding_Cats]

I can’t confirm this as this email wasn’t sent to me, but it might be a start?

 

[DopeyBadger]

I can’t confirm this as this email wasn’t sent to me, but it might be a start?

View attachment 587585

Thanks for sharing. So that would look something like this:



Still theoretical though. We should see something official on runDisney within the next week or so given registration for Marathon Weekend is coming up.

 

[jmasgat]

I hope the "two year" window gets stretched for MW, but not hopeful.