Proof of Time Request

[Ariel484]

Does anyone know if they actually verify every POT submission? I would guess they don't, but it's just a guess. It's hard to believe they'd want to pay people to sit around and click through tens of thousands of links to find the occasional cheater. I suspect they just spot check here and there, enough to discourage people from putting in bogus links. If that's so, then even if something went wrong in your POT link, you'd likely be OK anyway.

Anyway, if I was in charge of rundisney, I wouldn't pay people to click through every POT submission!

I know for sure that they DO NOT verify every POT.

 

[RunDisneyDad]

I'm guessing they spend the majority of their time verifying times for the first few Corals.

 

[ZellyB]

I know for sure that they DO NOT verify every POT.

Me too. I know someone who submitted her time for both herself and her husband and both got seeded according to that time even though he didn't run the race.

I suspect that they spot-check or rely on the fact that MOST people are honest and abide by the rules.

 

[JClimacus]

I know for sure that they DO NOT verify every POT.

Well that explains some of the people in the corrals ahead of me. I was in the E corral last year for the marathon and quickly caught up to some runners from the D corral, who obviously could not have run the 1:50 half that got me an E placement. Not that I cared that much... I was just surprised to see them. I assumed everyone in D would get further ahead of me if anything.

Thinking about it, probably they look at the numbers breakdown they are getting in the various corrals, and if they seem "off" enough to be a problem, start checking POTS to discover the problem. Like if there are way too many supposedly qualifying for the C or D corrals. But if the numbers work out they probably don't care about potential cheaters.

 

[Ariel484]

Me too. I know someone who submitted her time for both herself and her husband and both got seeded according to that time even though he didn't run the race.

I suspect that they spot-check or rely on the fact that MOST people are honest and abide by the rules.

Yep. I know someone who admittedly dropped out of a half marathon halfway through but submitted that time as if she'd run the full race - so she submitted a 6ish-mile time but made it seem like that was her full 13.1-mile time. She was thus corralled with people who were literally twice as fast as she was (so apparently rD never checked to see that she actually finished her PoT half marathon). She started with the corral she was seeded in (just above the middle of the pack) and only finished the race in front of maybe 20 people. She didn't train and knew she'd get swept otherwise (she finished an hour+ after the cut-off time).

I was, and still am, pretty disgusted by what she did - it was dishonest and annoying/dangerous for everyone else. She's not the only person I know of that has lied about her PoT but it's the most blatant lie that I know of.

 

[opusone]

Well that explains some of the people in the corrals ahead of me. I was in the E corral last year for the marathon and quickly caught up to some runners from the D corral, who obviously could not have run the 1:50 half that got me an E placement. Not that I cared that much... I was just surprised to see them. I assumed everyone in D would get further ahead of me if anything.

Thinking about it, probably they look at the numbers breakdown they are getting in the various corrals, and if they seem "off" enough to be a problem, start checking POTS to discover the problem. Like if there are way too many supposedly qualifying for the C or D corrals. But if the numbers work out they probably don't care about potential cheaters.

I assume they spot check throughout, but I also bet they probably do a fairly thorough check for the folks in A and possibly B corral.

 

[Neoflynn]

Yep. I know someone who admittedly dropped out of a half marathon halfway through but submitted that time as if she'd run the full race - so she submitted a 6ish-mile time but made it seem like that was her full 13.1-mile time. She was thus corralled with people who were literally twice as fast as she was (so apparently rD never checked to see that she actually finished her PoT half marathon). She started with the corral she was seeded in (just above the middle of the pack) and only finished the race in front of maybe 20 people. She didn't train and knew she'd get swept otherwise (she finished an hour+ after the cut-off time).

I was, and still am, pretty disgusted by what she did - it was dishonest and annoying/dangerous for everyone else. She's not the only person I know of that has lied about her PoT but it's the most blatant lie that I know of.

That's pretty sad really, a lot of people take this things to seriously, I really am not worried exactly what corral I'm in as long is its not the last one so any POT was good enough for me and yet I was slightly freaking out when I submitted it because I didn't know if I should round up a second or down a second based on my fractional finish time and didn't want to be rejected because of it, glad I was freaking out over nothing

 

[LSUlakes]

That's pretty sad really, a lot of people take this things to seriously, I really am not worried exactly what corral I'm in as long is its not the last one so any POT was good enough for me and yet I was slightly freaking out when I submitted it because I didn't know if I should round up a second or down a second based on my fractional finish time and didn't want to be rejected because of it, glad I was freaking out over nothing

I actually had the same issue come up and I e-mailed someone at the runshake (SP?) as what to do. They directed me to round down because it was at .4. I have that e-mailed saved just incase. In fact I plan on printing all of the e-mails and bringing them with me just incase I have an issue. Corral placement is very important to me for this race and achieving my goals, so I am a little crazy about the whole thing.

 

[Anisum]

I actually had the same issue come up and I e-mailed someone at the runshake (SP?) as what to do. They directed me to round down because it was at .4. I have that e-mailed saved just incase. In fact I plan on printing all of the e-mails and bringing them with me just incase I have an issue. Corral placement is very important to me for this race and achieving my goals, so I am a little crazy about the whole thing.

That was my concern too. Now I'm thinking I should have maybe rounded up. :/

 

[Castle2Castle]

Well that explains some of the people in the corrals ahead of me. I was in the E corral last year for the marathon and quickly caught up to some runners from the D corral, who obviously could not have run the 1:50 half that got me an E placement.

In addition to the other comments regarding spot-checking, keep in mind the volunteers on race day aren't 100% effective in preventing people from corral jumping. I've seen volunteers stand firm in redirecting people to their assigned corrals (further back), and I've seen people 2-3 corrals ahead of the letter on their bibs. That's not isolated to runDisney races, but I do suspect the nature of runDisney events invites more behavior like that by appealing to people more as a Disney experience rather than a race; made more problematic by the appeal to non-runners who aren't familiar with etiquette, are less prepared for the race element, or who may not even care about the race element.

The nature of their runs as an experience beyond a race also encourages experienced runners to run their races slower than the potential reflected in legitimate POTs. My wife and I run local races for time because they're relatively cheap with little entertainment; we run faster to get it over it with faster. Disney gives us more to see going through the parks, so we're less concerned with our time. Picture stops are an explicit encouragement to forgo pace and time for the races, which by themselves will result in various corral/pace mixes once you get into the parks.

With runDisney runs, I think it's best to go in assuming that you're going to end up around some people who are slower than you and some people who are faster than you, for one reason or another. Keep an eye out for safety, but otherwise try not to worry about what other people are doing and enjoy your race for whatever it is to you.

 

[IamTrike]

Well that explains some of the people in the corrals ahead of me. I was in the E corral last year for the marathon and quickly caught up to some runners from the D corral, who obviously could not have run the 1:50 half that got me an E placement. Not that I cared that much... I was just surprised to see them. I assumed everyone in D would get further ahead of me if anything.

Thinking about it, probably they look at the numbers breakdown they are getting in the various corrals, and if they seem "off" enough to be a problem, start checking POTS to discover the problem. Like if there are way too many supposedly qualifying for the C or D corrals. But if the numbers work out they probably don't care about potential cheaters.

While some of it could be people cheating the system I think there is more to it than that. I think you see slow people in faster corrals because:
1. People submitting bogus times.
2. People using a shorter race for the POT submission. Sprinting a 10k or 10 miler and then submitting that time. Even with McMillan calculator it may estimate them to have a faster pace than what they can sustain.
3. People doing challenges so they are really only racing one of the races and relaxing during the other races.
4. People people who race other races but take it easy at disney.

 

[Baloo in MI]

I actually had the same issue come up and I e-mailed someone at the runshake (SP?) as what to do. They directed me to round down because it was at .4. I have that e-mailed saved just incase. In fact I plan on printing all of the e-mails and bringing them with me just incase I have an issue. Corral placement is very important to me for this race and achieving my goals, so I am a little crazy about the whole thing.

That is a good idea!!! I had a concern a few weeks back about my POT and how I was supposed to indicate the URL. I ended up emailing the runshack folks and got a response with what i did was fine. In my email I had indicated my time, race, date, etc. I am going to follow your lead and print that all out and take it with me, just in case.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

While some of it could be people cheating the system I think there is more to it than that. I think you see slow people in faster corrals because:
1. People submitting bogus times.
2. People using a shorter race for the POT submission. Sprinting a 10k or 10 miler and then submitting that time. Even with McMillan calculator it may estimate them to have a faster pace than what they can sustain.
3. People doing challenges so they are really only racing one of the races and relaxing during the other races.
4. People people who race other races but take it easy at disney.

I agree - there is almost certainly a small amount of cheating, but most of the "mess" is for other reasons. I am a solid 9 minute/mile runner, meaning that I can generally run 9 minute miles even at the end of long races. At Disney not only do I run more slowly, but I stop for characters. I submit a PoT, but I also put a much slower estimated finish time. My estimated finish time submitted this year was 4:30, but if I stop as much as I hope to I might finish even later than that.

I am actually training right now with those stops and slower pace in mind. I know that the stops will put me with slower runners, so I am adding walk breaks and doing some training runs at a 10 minute mile pace. I don't want to be "that guy", furiously running around and through people on the course because their pace is slower than mine. I want to relax and enjoy whatever group of people that I am with at every point in the course in every race (Dopey).

 

[Dug720]

No longer changing corrals at the expo I think speaks more to the issue of people who tried submitting a new proof -- real or not -- beyond the verification period. For those who do follow the correct process and an error is made by the runDisney team, I've heard anecdotes of them being more willing to make corrections between the time of corral announcements and the expo provided runners can show some evidence that the error was on runDisney's end.

You're probably right about the no more changes at the expo - I did change once before they stopped the practice with a legitimate better time (and once had a request for a change refused because while my time had improved, it had not yet improved to the point of moving up a corral), and all they did was look at the results on the website I'd pulled up on my phone. No one verified anything. So that would have made it very easy to game the system.

Both for that and initial corral placement, there is a very well known charity that regularly encourages (or used to... maybe they stopped now that people are onto their tricks) their runners to see if they can find faster people with their names in their age rage and submit those times. It could be risky if they are spot-checking online submissions but would be very easy to do when they allowed expo changes - especially if you printed it off rather than pulling up the site on your phone.

 

[Anisum]

Both for that and initial corral placement, there is a very well known charity that regularly encourages (or used to... maybe they stopped now that people are onto their tricks) their runners to see if they can find faster people with their names in their age rage and submit those times. It could be risky if they are spot-checking online submissions but would be very easy to do when they allowed expo changes - especially if you printed it off rather than pulling up the site on your phone.

A charity? Wow that sounds crazy. And for what purpose since I was under the money they get the fundraising money regardless of whether or not someone finished?

 

[Dug720]

A charity? Wow that sounds crazy. And for what purpose since I was under the money they get the fundraising money regardless of whether or not someone finished?

Yes, the money is already there, but this one in particular is about the EXPERIENCE, and they do want their people to have the EXPERIENCE of finishing and not being driven to the finish area on a bus.

The purpose is to give them more time TO finish and take pictures and stuff without worrying AS much about the 16-minute pace. The further up you are in the corrals, the more "wiggle room" you have before the balloon ladies start.

 

[emzben25]

It makes me sad to hear about all the ways people cheat. =( When I was at the expo at the DL half this past year I overheard people talking about submitting proof of times but never a ran race before. They just submitted bogus times and were slotted in corral D. The lady they were talking to that didn't submit a POT asked what race they ran for their POT. They said they just entered their estimated finish time and said they never ran a race for their POT.

 

[Ariel484]

Yes, the money is already there, but this one in particular is about the EXPERIENCE, and they do want their people to have the EXPERIENCE of finishing and not being driven to the finish area on a bus.

...maybe they should encourage them to train, then?

sheesh.

 

[Dug720]

...maybe they should encourage them to train, then?

sheesh.

I agree 100%.