Riviera is suffering from Ill Will created by Disney

[Frederic Civish]

There has been a lot of discussion on the boards from people who were 'Not happy with Riviera.' Some people have commented that no other DVC Resort had to open with so much ill-will and negativity, and they feel Riviera is getting a 'bum rap' and is as good as any other resort.

I can, at least partially, agree with this. Riviera certainly has its good points, as well as its bad points, BUT ALL DVC RESORTS DO. So, let those who are happy with Riviera be happy, and those who are unhappy will endeavor not to stay there. This is fine, and is the way it should be.

BUT, it also is not inappropriate to discuss Riviera and some of its shortcomings, because those problems have been exacerbated by the ILL-WILL that Disney created with their actions last year.

In late 2018 and early 2019, Disney made some incredible mistakes, if you ask me. They tried to ram a poorly planned, poorly thought out, probably 'illegal' (I know, NOT against the law, but against the DVC contract) overhaul of the Point Charts down the throats of DVC members, and they got a lot of push back. Then they culminated it in the restrictions they placed on Resale of Riviera contracts, WHICH BENEFITS NO ONE EXCEPT DISNEY'S DVC SALES OFFICE. And it probably also is 'illegal' in DVC, since it makes Riviera different from other DVC properties in a way that the DVC Members Association probably doesn't allow. In the end, IT IS RIVIERA which currently must endure the stigma created in this way, by Disney.

So, I cannot say that Riviera is the worst DVC property or even a bad DVC property. But I do want Disney to know why there is so much Ill Will. DVC Owners MIGHT let some things pass by, but they will never forget.

 

[AKNOTTS66]

I agree. Nothing around the restrictions helps Riviera at all. It only clouds it in Negativity. Without the resale restrictions I think its total opposite. People want to love RIV but they nitpick it to death in order to talk themselves out of it due to the restrictions. High Annual Dues doesn't help either but its tolerable.

 

[thanxfornoticin]

Riviera should only be seen as a potential negative for those looking to buy resale at Riviera - and also those buying it with the idea of using it and selling it off in the future. Do I understand the restrictions correctly - that if you buy points resale at Riviera, you can ONLY use them for stays at Riviera - not at any of the other DVC locations? Please correct me if that is not accurate. If that is true, then it will be a very select audience looking to make a resale purchase there.

But as for the owners buying from Disney, it's set up very much like all the other DVC resorts. The points are expensive (as the cost has risen with each new DVC location, it seems), the points per night seem high to me (higher than most other resorts), and the dues are high, but the resort itself seems pretty nice. I hope the new owners there love it for many decades to come.

 

[Sandisw]

It is definitely a different product...way different...due to the restrictions and long time owners, it seems, are not jumping at it because of that.

Even as one who bought after thinking I never would, understand I choose something different than what I currently own.

So, yeah, I can see why lots of people struggle with what they did because it does mean that the future of DVC will no longer be the DVC of the past,

 

[Granny]

There has been a lot of discussion on the boards from people who were 'Not happy with Riviera.' Some people have commented that no other DVC Resort had to open with so much ill-will and negativity, and they feel Riviera is getting a 'bum rap' and is as good as any other resort.

I can, at least partially, agree with this. Riviera certainly has its good points, as well as its bad points, BUT ALL DVC RESORTS DO. So, let those who are happy with Riviera be happy, and those who are unhappy will endeavor not to stay there. This is fine, and is the way it should be.

BUT, it also is not inappropriate to discuss Riviera and some of its shortcomings, because those problems have been exacerbated by the ILL-WILL that Disney created with their actions last year.

If someone feels that a resort has shortcomings, then I don't see why they shouldn't make comments that reflect their feelings as long as they do it without "attacking" those who disagree with them. If I were a Riviera resort owner, I couldn't care less about people making disparaging comments because I wouldn't have bought it for those other people...it would be for me and my family. So those who worry about a "bum rap" should just ignore the comments if they are happy with their DVC purchase. That's the same advice given for those who bought the "middle of nowhere OKW", the "long hallways BWV", the "too dark and woodsy VWL", and every other DVC resort that has had its detractors.

In late 2018 and early 2019, Disney made some incredible mistakes, if you ask me. They tried to ram a poorly planned, poorly thought out, probably 'illegal' (I know, NOT against the law, but against the DVC contract) overhaul of the Point Charts down the throats of DVC members, and they got a lot of push back. Then they culminated it in the restrictions they placed on Resale of Riviera contracts, WHICH BENEFITS NO ONE EXCEPT DISNEY'S DVC SALES OFFICE. And it probably also is 'illegal' in DVC, since it makes Riviera different from other DVC properties in a way that the DVC Members Association probably doesn't allow. In the end, IT IS RIVIERA which currently must endure the stigma created in this way, by Disney.

So, I cannot say that Riviera is the worst DVC property or even a bad DVC property. But I do want Disney to know why there is so much Ill Will. DVC Owners MIGHT let some things pass by, but they will never forget.

I think that those who regularly visit boards such as this get a very skewed view of the DVC ownership world. Keep in mind that most new DVC owners will never visit this board before they purchase (at Riviera or any other DVC resort). So the "ill will" that is described is held by a relatively minor group of DVC owners.

Riviera is selling just fine. Per DVCNews website, "The 181,289 points sold for the Riviera [in January 2020] marks only the fifth time in the last 10 years that one resort sold over 180,000 points in a single month. "

So I don't think the "ill will" is having much effect on DVC sales.

 

[cruisin5]

It's my feeling RR direct buyers are extra-sensitive to any criticism of RR.

We can complain about the lack of a quality QS, unavailability of standard view studios in the Fall, long hallways and a crazy clown pool at BWV ALL DAY LONG and owners don't get defensive.

I agree with the PP, RR is selling just fine; thanks to the recent incentives and offering 2019 points at no charge (wink, wink). Mostly to people who think *life* can't possibly happen to them, IMHO.

 

[pineapplepalms]

It's my feeling RR direct buyers are extra-sensitive to any criticism of RR.

We can complain about the lack of a quality QS, unavailability of standard view studios in the Fall, long hallways and a crazy clown pool at BWV ALL DAY LONG and owners don't get defensive.

I agree with the PP, RR is selling just fine; thanks to the recent incentives and offering 2019 points at no charge (wink, wink). Mostly to people who think *life* can't possibly happen to them, IMHO.

I think this is the kind of comment that can make RIV owners defensive. All of the things you stated about BWV are objective statements about features of the resort itself. I own BWV as well, and I can't argue that any of those things aren't true. But the things we love about BWV are way beyond those few negatives which don't really affect us.

However, your last statement is a judgment of what you think RIV owners are like rather than objective facts about the resort itself.

As a RIV direct owner, we certainly don't think *life* can't possibly happen to us. It has and it will. We just have a realistic sense of how much it would matter if life did happen and whether owning RIV would affect us to any critical degree. The benefits outweighed the risks for us so we bought. I could care less if others don't love RIV as much as I do. I also own SSR, which gets its share of negativity, and we really enjoyed our first stay there recently. But I did want to point out why RIV owners might feel defensive when they themselves are being judged rather than just the resort itself or the restrictions.

 

[Dizzydizney]

Agree with @Granny. Sales seem to be doing just fine. One should never buy a timeshare with the intent of selling it and making a profit or breaking even. There are very few timeshares where you can sell after using for a number of years and make a profit. DVC being one of the few. Those days are probably over with all the new resorts coming on line and when they have remakes of BWV, BCV, VWL. This is the new way going forward.

I’m am a little sensitive about some comments (preconceived notions about the type of people that are buying Riviera). I will just ignore from now on. We are extremely happy with our 200 point purchase. We got a great Pre-Sale deal and made a profit selling our SSR contract. Helped offset the cost. We had a wonderful stay At Riviera. This will hopefully be our legacy to our kids and grandkids. Nobody knows what the future holds, but as I’ve said before, if Disney goes down the tubes that means the whole country is in a world of hurt. JMHO.

I don’t see the ill will....maybe because resale doesn’t matter to me? DVC does so much more for its members than they ever did. I choose to be grateful for annual pass discounts, food and merchandise discounts, being able to purchase a dining plan, moonlight magic. None of these things were offered when we first purchased BWV....not for many years after that.

I chat with lots of people while hanging out at the pool. There are plenty of people unaware of the resale market. So resale restrictions would really would mean nothing to them.

 

[cruisin5]

I think this is the kind of comment that can make RIV owners defensive. All of the things you stated about BWV are objective statements about features of the resort itself. I own BWV as well, and I can't argue that any of those things aren't true. But the things we love about BWV are way beyond those few negatives which don't really affect us.

However, your last statement is a judgment of what you think RIV owners are like rather than objective facts about the resort itself.

As a RIV direct owner, we certainly don't think *life* can't possibly happen to us. It has and it will. We just have a realistic sense of how much it would matter if life did happen and whether owning RIV would affect us to any critical degree. The benefits outweighed the risks for us so we bought. I could care less if others don't love RIV as much as I do. I also own SSR, which gets its share of negativity, and we really enjoyed our first stay there recently. But I did want to point out why RIV owners might feel defensive when they themselves are being judged rather than just the resort itself or the restrictions.

Excellent points, thank you!

I didn't say "all" owners. I standby the majority of purchasers anywhere at DVC think life will not happen to them. Those purchasing at RR will take a bigger hit if it does. Even DizzyDizney posted about meeting RR owners who don't know there is a resale market - do they have any idea the value of their purchase dropped by 30%?

I don't think it's possible to remove the restrictions from the RR discussion any more than it is to consider 2042 when purchasing BCV.

I can't believe the majority of RR owners are purchasing KNOWING their value will drop by 30% immediately. This is what makes RR unique.

Many purchase DVC thinking it's an investment. Many times it is. But not with RR.

Perhaps, something will change and in 10 years RR will be worth $200 pp on the resale market.

(And everything I mentioned about BWV is subjective, too. Many love the pizza window, heading to Epcot for dinner, BW bakery or the options at the Swolphin.)

No resort is perfect for everyone.

 

[Sandisw]

Excellent points, thank you!

I didn't say "all" owners. I standby the majority of purchasers anywhere at DVC think life will not happen to them. Those purchasing at RR will take a bigger hit if it does. Even DizzyDizney posted about meeting RR owners who don't know there is a resale market - do they have any idea the value of their purchase dropped by 30%?

I don't think it's possible to remove the restrictions from the RR discussion any more than it is to consider 2042 when purchasing BCV.

I can't believe the majority of RR owners are purchasing KNOWING their value will drop by 30% immediately. This is what makes RR unique.

Many purchase DVC thinking it's an investment. Many times it is. But not with RR.

Perhaps, something will change and in 10 years RR will be worth $200 pp on the resale market.

(And everything I mentioned about BWV is subjective, too. Many love the pizza window, heading to Epcot for dinner, BW bakery or the options at the Swolphin.)

No resort is perfect for everyone.

Just to be clear, though, any direct contract bought today...will take a big hit via resale,,,and some of them a bigger hit than RiV will right now. BLT is $100/less resale.

I don’t care if people want to share opinions about RIV and why it doesn’t work for them, but sometimes the posts state opinions as fact and will disagree with someone who says something positive that is clearly that persons opinion.

Even in your posts, there is an element that RIV buyers are probably not aware that resale value will be lower. It implies people may not be making an informed decision when buying this resort.

What I can tell you is it is in big bold letters in the documents we signed. It stares it not to be bought as an investment, it’s resale value should not be counted on and that past performance shouldn’t be considered.

So, everyone buying is made aware of this fact, I have shared many times, we had to sign a specific page that pulled the language from the POS about the resale restrictions, just to make sure we couldn’t come back and say it was buried in the fine print.

 

[npatellye]

Excellent points, thank you!

I didn't say "all" owners. I standby the majority of purchasers anywhere at DVC think life will not happen to them. Those purchasing at RR will take a bigger hit if it does. Even DizzyDizney posted about meeting RR owners who don't know there is a resale market - do they have any idea the value of their purchase dropped by 30%?

I don't think it's possible to remove the restrictions from the RR discussion any more than it is to consider 2042 when purchasing BCV.

I can't believe the majority of RR owners are purchasing KNOWING their value will drop by 30% immediately. This is what makes RR unique.

Many purchase DVC thinking it's an investment. Many times it is. But not with RR.

Perhaps, something will change and in 10 years RR will be worth $200 pp on the resale market.

(And everything I mentioned about BWV is subjective, too. Many love the pizza window, heading to Epcot for dinner, BW bakery or the options at the Swolphin.)

No resort is perfect for everyone.

We bought a timeshare and don’t expect a return on our purchase; we don’t see it as an investment in anything other than trips with our young kids and, if we’re lucky, with their kids some day. So, we don’t expect to make money or to even break even on it. We bought RR knowing it won’t keep its value and that’s fine with us; we get memories out of it and that’s all that matters to us.

As @Sandisw said, we are fully aware of what we’ve purchased. We knew about resale restrictions; our guide must have mentioned it to us multiple times. We knew the value would drop after purchase. But we also buy new cars knowing the value drops steeply after driving a new car off the lot. We do it anyway The RR purchase isn’t much different to us than buying a new car.

We didn’t finance our our purchase so, yes, life can happen but we aren’t as concerned as we would be if we had financed. We should be able to pay our dues, unless the economy tanks horribly, we both lose our jobs, have absolutely no income, blow through our savings, and our house loses all of the equity we have in it. In case we divorce, we can each take a contract (we split our purchase into two contracts). Life can happen in unexpected ways but we’ve planned and saved for a very long time to insure we can live for quite some time in a worst case scenario financially. If something happens to us, we’ve left our kids financially secure. If they choose to sell their contracts when we’re gone, that’s their call.

I’m too fiscally frugal to blow all of our savings on DVC and that’s why we only purchased 200 points. Was it tempting to buy more? Yes. But not at the expense of it impacting how we live or our goals in other areas. Life happens. And we try as hard as we can to plan for it. But we still bought Riviera and are super happy with our timeshare.

 

[AKNOTTS66]

Excellent points, thank you!

I didn't say "all" owners. I standby the majority of purchasers anywhere at DVC think life will not happen to them. Those purchasing at RR will take a bigger hit if it does. Even DizzyDizney posted about meeting RR owners who don't know there is a resale market - do they have any idea the value of their purchase dropped by 30%?

I don't think it's possible to remove the restrictions from the RR discussion any more than it is to consider 2042 when purchasing BCV.

I can't believe the majority of RR owners are purchasing KNOWING their value will drop by 30% immediately. This is what makes RR unique.

Many purchase DVC thinking it's an investment. Many times it is. But not with RR.

Perhaps, something will change and in 10 years RR will be worth $200 pp on the resale market.

(And everything I mentioned about BWV is subjective, too. Many love the pizza window, heading to Epcot for dinner, BW bakery or the options at the Swolphin.)

No resort is perfect for everyone.

You do realize a lot of resorts take a huge hit when you buy direct and sell resale right? Poly is $245 direct and is selling at $145 a 41% drop. If you buy with incentives around $175 at Riv and sell at $130 thats a 25% drop. Everyone is taking a hit now that direct prices are going up and up not just Riv. Most most resorts take a 25-40% drop in resale, its the reason people are buyimg resale because its 25-40% cheaper.

 

[DVC BLT]

It's my feeling RR direct buyers are extra-sensitive to any criticism of RR.

We can complain about the lack of a quality QS, unavailability of standard view studios in the Fall, long hallways and a crazy clown pool at BWV ALL DAY LONG and owners don't get defensive.

I agree with the PP, RR is selling just fine; thanks to the recent incentives and offering 2019 points at no charge (wink, wink). Mostly to people who think *life* can't possibly happen to them, IMHO.

Of course life happens. You have no idea what health issues or other "life happens" as you put it have impacted people who did buy, and to be honest, my RIV Purchase was directly tied to one of these events. You need to live your life in ways that make you happy.

With that said, my 250pt contract is not going to be an issue for us should life happen in ways you would like me to imagine. Dont assume how a purchase will impact you would impact everyone else the same. Everyone is in a different situation financially and other, and that's ok. I wouldn't project the impact to on you to be the same as the impact on everyone.

 

[Granny]

I’m am a little sensitive about some comments (preconceived notions about the type of people that are buying Riviera).

If negative comments are directed at the people buying, then sensitivity is justified. I've seen them for years on this and other boards, and I guess I just gloss over them now.

To me, the SSR owners took the worst beating for years with many people assuming that SSR owners never want to stay there and have completely messed up the 7 month window. So don't feel like Riviera owners are the first ones to go through this.

I will just ignore from now on.

​

We are extremely happy with our 200 point purchase. We got a great Pre-Sale deal and made a profit selling our SSR contract. Helped offset the cost. We had a wonderful stay At Riviera. This will hopefully be our legacy to our kids and grandkids. Nobody knows what the future holds, but as I’ve said before, if Disney goes down the tubes that means the whole country is in a world of hurt. JMHO.

I hope that you, your kids and your grandkids have many years of amazing memories. Enjoy.

 

[cruisin5]

Sorry to those that I offended.

I *thought* I was clearly stating my opinion by using "I think" and "I believe" and "many" and "IMHO". Pretty sure the only thing I wrote without a qualifier was "No resort is perfect for everyone".

Check out some of the FB groups, not everyone is making an informed decision. I think DIS people are better informed.

I appreciate the replies.

 

[disneydreamer1980]

Sorry to those that I offended.

I *thought* I was clearly stating my opinion by using "I think" and "I believe" and "many" and "IMHO". Pretty sure the only thing I wrote without a qualifier was "No resort is perfect for everyone".

Check out some of the FB groups, not everyone is making an informed decision. I think DIS people are better informed.

I appreciate the replies.

Wow, this thread pretty much proved your point about Riv owners being uber-sensitive to ANY criticism. You say anything against it (and I’ve seen this in other threads as well) and they all jump on you. Sorry, but I feel like if you feel the need to be super and reflexively defensive of your decision to buy or of the resort itself (which is extremely underwhelming imo) then you must not be totally confident in your decision(that’s psychology). People always hate on SS or OKW or BWV, and you don’t see those owners getting out pitch forks. Just sayin.

 

[DVC BLT]

Wow, this thread pretty much proved your point about Riv owners being uber-sensitive to ANY criticism. You say anything against it (and I’ve seen this in other threads as well) and they all jump on you. Sorry, but I feel like if you feel the need to be super and reflexively defensive of your decision to buy or of the resort itself (which is extremely underwhelming imo) then you must not be totally confident in your decision(that’s psychology). People always hate on SS or OKW or BWV, and you don’t see those owners getting out pitch forks. Just sayin.

I dont think i'm being defensive in anyway. Somewhere I went to florida in Dec avoiding Riveria because of what I read on this board by people who never visited and just wanted to try and "protest" the restrictions by posting constant negativity about the place. When we stayed at BWV it was upsetting how run down the place was, BCV was no better. When we visited Riveria it was a clear luxury experience for us, extremely high end for disney.

I wished someone like me visited and posted online before my visit, I would have tried to book a room and have gone in with a different attitude. I guess from that moment on, i learned to not follow the "group think" on this board. Perhaps for those who are opened minded, i'm trying to share something positive about the place, and encourage them to go ahead and check it out. Read my other posts along with the negative ones for sure. No problem for me to be outnumbered, but dont mistake someone disagreeing with you as being defensive. Just a suggestion, but it will be hard for you to see other points of view if you see anyone who disagrees as being defensive.

Also - no need to apologize if people disagree with your post, stand by your original intend. Its only a message board, not a permanent scar in your file

Party in Bar Riva!!!!

 

[eMoneyBug]

i don't think so. RIV studios are booked pretty solid. Trying to get in there in Sept and it's looking tough.

 

[DebbieB]

It's my feeling RR direct buyers are extra-sensitive to any criticism of RR.

We can complain about the lack of a quality QS, unavailability of standard view studios in the Fall, long hallways and a crazy clown pool at BWV ALL DAY LONG and owners don't get defensive.

I agree with the PP, RR is selling just fine; thanks to the recent incentives and offering 2019 points at no charge (wink, wink). Mostly to people who think *life* can't possibly happen to them, IMHO.

You should have been here 20 years ago in the old "OKW vs BWV" days. Everyone talked about BWV's "tiny rooms" and "you can answer the door from the couch". I bought BWV and wondered if I made a mistake. 20 years later, I have no regrets. I've stayed at all the WDW DVC except SSR, CC and Riviera. Will be staying at Riviera in April. I can't say there's any that any that I did not like. I like the variety but my first preference is still BWV for the awesome boardwalk view and location close to 2 parks. I have a feeling Riviera will be a one time thing, mainly due to the high points. Using 160 for 6 nights in a preferred studio, same nights would be 111 in a boardwalk view BWV. That's 44% more.

 

[CarolMN]

It's my feeling RR direct buyers are extra-sensitive to any criticism of RR.

We can complain about the lack of a quality QS, unavailability of standard view studios in the Fall, long hallways and a crazy clown pool at BWV ALL DAY LONG and owners don't get defensive.
...........(snip)..........

For the most part, that's true now. It wasn't always true, though.

You should have been here 20 years ago in the old "OKW vs BWV" days. Everyone talked about BWV's "tiny rooms" and "you can answer the door from the couch". I bought BWV and wondered if I made a mistake. 20 years later, I have no regrets. I've stayed at all the WDW DVC except SSR, CC and Riviera. Will be staying at Riviera in April. I can't say there's any that any that I did not like. I like the variety but my first preference is still BWV for the awesome boardwalk view and location close to 2 parks. I have a feeling Riviera will be a one time thing, mainly due to the high points. Using 160 for 6 nights in a preferred studio, same nights would be 111 in a boardwalk view BWV. That's 44% more.

Agree with Debbie - we closed many threads that turned "nasty" and "sanctioned" quite a few posters for "unDIS-like" comments.

Right now, DRR seems to be a hot topic (along with walking). But this too, shall pass - although based on 20 years of history, walking will come back again next year about the same time.