Riviera Sales by the numbers (vs CCV) for 2019 - (December added 1/16/2020)

[David G Farr]

I'm not kidding when I say this...forget the ring and the fancy wedding, spend the money on DVC. At least then you have something you can get some use out of.

It would be second marriages for the both of us so I don’t anticipate a fancy wedding.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

It would be second marriages for the both of us so I don’t anticipate a fancy wedding.

Previous poster is correct. The joy your family will get from dvc far surpasses a ring you could lose and a wedding that only lasts one night. Just my opinion! Congrats to all of you regardless!

 

[Sandisw]

I don't think having Caribbean Beach nearby is a negative. Caribbean Beach can be fun to look at, and it can even be beautiful, situated around the water. But it clearly is a separate resort.

Pop and AoA are also no problem. So what if those 'low lifes' use the same gondolas that p*** right next to Riviera? Keep in mind that in another 10 years or so, the gondolas will probably stretch from every location in Disney World to every location in Disney World. So what if the people from Pop Century get off and go to a restaurant. I mean, really. So what. Don't you think they would do it anyway? Don't you think this is how Disney World has operated forever? It doesn't matter WHERE you stay, you get access to the whole of Disney World.

Instead, if Riviera is deemed 'high cl***' or 'special' it will have to be based on things that are intrinsic to Riviera itself. Excellent access to Epcot is a good point. A beautiful building with a great view, and wonderful restaurants and 'rich' decor and furnishings are other good points.

I guess we will just have to see how it all shakes out in the end.

For us, we avoided the value and moderate locations NOT because of the people who were there, but more due to the amount of people those resorts accommodate and the busyiness of them.

Yes, parks are crowded and we dealt with that, but we decided it was worth extra to be at resorts that were simply not as crowded.

What I have not been able to find regarding the gondola and RIV is if the ones that RiV guest get on will be arriving with guests already on them? If they do, how will this effect the time frame waiting?

Again, I think RIV will sell to new buyers and current buyers who love the resort and who don’t care able it restrictions down the roads. I don’t think I fall in that category, but if the ease back and forth to Epcot is better than I expect, then maybe my mind will change!

 

[Marionnette]

I have more misgivings about RIV, that go beyond just the resale restrictions and high points charts. These are random thoughts that I had this morning.

How well are they going to police pool access? Judging from Poly and VGF, they won’t do a good job of it. It won’t take long before some guests staying at POP decide that a relaxing pool day at RIV is more attractive than the Hippy Dippy Pool and it’s only a gondola ride away.

The same goes for parking scofflaws who will park their cars at RIV and take a gondola ride over to HS or Epcot rather than pay to park at the theme park. We see it all of the time at BWV with no enforcement. Will RIV be any better at it? Let’s face it, if I had to choose between walking all the way from the IG to the BWV lot or taking a gondola ride to RIV where the parking lot is closer to the Skyliner station, guess which one I would choose for convenience?

The answers to both questions remain to be seen. As it is, I chose to buy more BWV resale points rather than direct RIV points. So, I won’t be in the market to purchase...period. I’m pretty satisfied with the number of points I have. Seeing how RIV management addresses these issues won’t influence me to purchase there. But it could be a huge negative for the resort, all due to its convenient gondola access.

 

[sethschroeder]

The boardwalk view rooms over look both Yacht and Beach and no one seems to mention those resorts.

Because its the boardwalk.... I even posted it specifically calling that out. We have stayed in those rooms and when you get one overlooking the entertainment on the street its amazing. Love catching the action from the balcony.

What is this 2020 point chart issue for RIV?

I think its the idea that Disney will drastically jackup the points charts for the low end rooms even higher than they are today (which are only behind in GFV in price).

There is going to be roughly 300 rooms at RIV and 6500 rooms elsewhere on the Skyliner.

I want to add watching livestreams this morning there are Caribbean Beach guests already loading at the RIV Skyliner as their rooms are actually closer than the RIV rooms are. That station also causes the stoppage on the Epcot line as there is no handicap loading area off to the side.

 

[TexasChick123]

I want to add watching livestreams this morning there are Caribbean Beach guests already loading at the RIV Skyliner as their rooms are actually closer than the RIV rooms are. That station also causes the stoppage on the Epcot line as there is no handicap loading area off to the side.

Sadly, this doesn't surprise me. Disney always seems to do things after the fact with regards to this stuff. I didn't think they would "police the crowds" coming in from other resorts to get on at the RIV station until it became a real issue. Should this continue, you had better believe we will all be calling to complain until it is fixed if it becomes a problem. However, Riviera isn't even opened yet. I don't know that we can assume that they will continue to allow guests from CBR to board there when the resort opens. For now, it may be a "no harm, no foul" type situation since no RIV guests are boarding the gondolas. I am actually surprised you can board there at all before the resort opens, but maybe they're doing it to help with large crowds "trying out" the gonodolas before the resort opens.

I have more misgivings about RIV, that go beyond just the resale restrictions and high points charts. These are random thoughts that I had this morning.

How well are they going to police pool access? Judging from Poly and VGF, they won’t do a good job of it. It won’t take long before some guests staying at POP decide that a relaxing pool day at RIV is more attractive than the Hippy Dippy Pool and it’s only a gondola ride away.

The same goes for parking scofflaws who will park their cars at RIV and take a gondola ride over to HS or Epcot rather than pay to park at the theme park. We see it all of the time at BWV with no enforcement. Will RIV be any better at it? Let’s face it, if I had to choose between walking all the way from the IG to the BWV lot or taking a gondola ride to RIV where the parking lot is closer to the Skyliner station, guess which one I would choose for convenience?

The answers to both questions remain to be seen. As it is, I chose to buy more BWV resale points rather than direct RIV points. So, I won’t be in the market to purchase...period. I’m pretty satisfied with the number of points I have. Seeing how RIV management addresses these issues won’t influence me to purchase there. But it could be a huge negative for the resort, all due to its convenient gondola access.

The parking and riding the gondola thing is the same issue as people parking at VGF, Poly, or BLT and riding the monorail. I don't know how people are doing it at BWV, BCV, VGF, Poly, or BLT because they scan your MB to make sure you are staying there or have a dining reservation before they will let you park there. The last several times we were at any of the monorail or Epcot resorts, they said you had to have an ADR or be staying there to be able to park there. Quick service meals and/or shopping wouldn't cut it for parking at those resorts. They were clear about this. Hopefully, this is true.

 

[Marionnette]

Sadly, this doesn't surprise me. Disney always seems to do things after the fact with regards to this stuff. I didn't think they would "police the crowds" coming in from other resorts to get on at the RIV station until it became a real issue. Should this continue, you had better believe we will all be calling to complain until it is fixed if it becomes a problem. However, Riviera isn't even opened yet. I don't know that we can assume that they will continue to allow guests from CBR to board there when the resort opens. For now, it may be a "no harm, no foul" type situation since no RIV guests are boarding the gondolas. I am actually surprised you can board there at all before the resort opens, but maybe they're doing it to help with large crowds "trying out" the gonodolas before the resort opens.

I don’t think they can restrict the RIV Skyliner station to RIV guests. All Done Spey transportation is open to all guests, including those staying offsite. I’ve walked out the IG to BC just to catch an MK bus rather than deal with walking to the front of Epcot and taking 2 monorails. Should the BC bus stop also be only for the convenience of BC guests?

The parking and riding the gondola thing is the same issue as people parking at VGF, Poly, or BLT and riding the monorail. I don't know how people are doing it at BWV, BCV, VGF, Poly, or BLT because they scan your MB to make sure you are staying there or have a dining reservation before they will let you park there. The last several times we were at any of the monorail or Epcot resorts, they said you had to have an ADR or be staying there to be able to park there. Quick service meals and/or shopping wouldn't cut it for parking at those resorts. They were clear about this. Hopefully, this is true.

It’s cheaper and very convenient to make a 1-person ADR that you fail to keep ($10 no-show fee) than it is to park at the theme parks. Yeah. It happens. More often than not, you can sit on your standard view balcony and watch the BWV parking lot empty out following Illuminations (and it will probably continue to happen with Epcot Forever). They only seem to be strict about enforcement during crowded festivals.

 

[TexasChick123]

I don’t think they can restrict the RIV Skyliner station to RIV guests. All Done Spey transportation is open to all guests, including those staying offsite. I’ve walked out the IG to BC just to catch an MK bus rather than deal with walking to the front of Epcot and taking 2 monorails. Should the BC bus stop also be only for the convenience of BC guests?


It’s cheaper and very convenient to make a 1-person ADR that you fail to keep ($10 no-show fee) than it is to park at the theme parks. Yeah. It happens. More often than not, you can sit on your standard view balcony and watch the BWV parking lot empty out following Illuminations (and it will probably continue to happen with Epcot Forever). They only seem to be strict about enforcement during crowded festivals.

I've taken a bus from BCV to MK too from EP, but it wasn't a hop, skip, and a jump away. Those bus stops are a pretty good hike compared to the monorail at the front of EP. We actually talked about it after the fact and said we should've just taken the monorail. The buses aren't moving very regularly at night (or ever???), and we ended up spending so much time walking and waiting that we decided we should've taken the monorail. Maybe it was just bad luck, but we didn't find taking the buses any faster.

Regarding restricting boarding gondolas at RIV station for RIV guests only, that is easy enough to do. Just make people scan their MBs at that station like they do for parking and EMH. Will they do this? I have no idea, but if it becomes a problem, then it's something to think about. If the time difference is minute with the CBR guests boarding at the RIV station, then I honestly don't care. I don't think they should have to walk further to their station if it really has very little impact on my travel time. However, this becomes tricky because what if my family goes over to CBR to grab some food and then boards the gondola there. Is it fair that I can board at CBR as a non-CBR guest but non-RIV guests cannot board at the RIV station. I don't think it is fair. It may just be one of those things that you have to deal with. It's a lot like the friendship boats with Swolphin guests versus BWV and BCV guests, I suppose.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

Honestly, I think long term they will have to charge for the gondolas in some capacity. There is no where in the world where gondolas are just free. They will have locals coming to ride them for a day out. Hell, I would do that if I were local. They should also be charging for the monorail. And yes, they have got to clamp down at the pools. We have been noticing for years that this is a problem. I have never complained about this (or anything else actually) but will start. We were at boardwalk over Labor Day and there were plenty of non guests using the pools. So annoying. Really tired of people like AJ advertising on utube video that people need to get free s’mores or whatever at resorts where they are not staying. That is going to change everything.

 

[Brianstl]

Clamping down at the pools is not hard to do. They do a great job with it at Stormalong Bay. The problem is it takes paying CMs to do it. With all of the cuts going on, they are more likely to stop enforcement at Stormalong Bay than start enforcing at other pools.

It is clear the resort guest experience is where Disney believes they can cut cost.

 

[TexasChick123]

Honestly, I think long term they will have to charge for the gondolas in some capacity. There is no where in the world where gondolas are just free. They will have locals coming to ride them for a day out. Hell, I would do that if I were local. They should also be charging for the monorail. And yes, they have got to clamp down at the pools. We have been noticing for years that this is a problem. I have never complained about this (or anything else actually) but will start. We were at boardwalk over Labor Day and there were plenty of non guests using the pools. So annoying. Really tired of people like AJ advertising on utube video that people need to get free s’mores or whatever at resorts where they are not staying. That is going to change everything.

Gondolas are free in a few places in Colorado. Breckenridge and Telluride are free for sure. I don’t know about others.

 

[sethschroeder]

I didn't think they would "police the crowds" coming in from other resorts to get on at the RIV station until it became a real issue. .... For now, it may be a "no harm, no foul" type situation since no RIV guests are boarding the gondolas.

I don't think anything changes in the future either. There is walking paths there for a reason and I would not be surprised to see the rooms closest to RIV become "preferred Skyliner access" rooms in which they just charge more.

I am still surprised at the placement of the Skyliner.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

Gondolas are free in a few places in Colorado. Breckenridge and Telluride are free for sure. I don’t know about others.

Forgot about Breckinridge. Never been to Telluride. But those are very small cities. I was thinking that there is no where in even a medium size metropolitan area where gondolas are free. It just just won’t work. I do not see how they won’t end up charging in some fashion.

 

[ScubaCat]

Forgot about Breckinridge. Never been to Telluride. But those are very small cities. I was thinking that there is no where in even a medium size metropolitan area where gondolas are free. It just just won’t work. I do not see how they won’t end up charging in some fashion.

Gondolas are a lot cheaper than buses and monorail. Nevertheless, they charge by making mediocre rooms $250+ a night. The transportation is "free" to keep people from going off property so we spend all our money on site.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

Gondolas are a lot cheaper than buses and monorail. Nevertheless, they charge by making mediocre rooms $250+ a night. The transportation is "free" to keep people from going off property so we spend all our money on site.

I am saying they will have to charge for crowd control, not cost. There is a free public ferry in Galveston that is always packed because people use it as a sightseeing trip. The people who actually need to use the ferry have to wait 2-3 hours just to get on it.

 

[Bing Showei]

But you don’t know if you’ll even like the food or amenities at Riviera. It all sounds good on paper because they’re trying to sell it. Like I’ve said before, I need to stay there and see why the resort is worth a premium. If it’s unbelievable, I wouldn’t be opposed to getting points there.

Until the recent announcement of a walkway to MK from GF, I harbored a fair amount of regret having bought the bulk of my points at VGF, never having stayed there. Despite having amazing amenities/finishings, and the iconic monorail to MK, it took only one park-closing-back-to-VGF on the monorail to see completely through the value people placed on being a "monorail" resort. Trying to get to Epcot from VGF by way of taking it the long way around to TTC, disembarking and transferring to another monorail, and then another long ride to the gate, convinced me that split stays, namely an MK resort and Epcot/DHS resort, was the way to tackle the parks as a VGF owner.

The reason I share this is that on paper, in videos, and reading about it, VGF was the ideal place for my family and checked so many boxes. It took staying there (as well as trying out BCV, AKV, BWV, and BLT) to learn that VGF was not my favorite resort and wishing I owned more of my points elsewhere. The new walkway mitigates that regret significantly, but not before it left its mark and made me gun shy about buying into Riviera which again, on paper, in videos, and in reading about it, looks so great to me. I just can't stomach that kind of regret a second time.

But again, this is a very personal and specific reason I have for not buying in.

So while I appreciate the thoughtful financial analyses that people have shared in terms of "breakeven" and economic viability (looks at ELMC's steak analogies), my own personal philosophy is that $/point/year will always take a backseat to the convenience and enjoyment that I get from taking my family to the parks.

To that end, I'm coming to realize the enjoyment we're all buying into will come from knowing you are saving a lot of money on the stays, from fancy rain shower and marble finishings, from getting a quiet retreat away from the hustle/bustle of the parks, from a convenient walk to the IG, and apparently from having nicer toilet paper.

Walking into and out of a park while I still can is my nice toilet paper, and I'm comfortable with that.

 

[mousemagic00]

While RISK of pool hopping, parking and the Skyliner being crowded because it’s open to everyone, is true....

That is the same at ALL the resorts. I mean, even for a while pool hopping was a “perk” to sell DVC. Other than SAB, I never saw the appeal, but pools aren’t a huge thing for me.

So for me .... no issues, until there is one.

It becomes an issue if I can’t park or valet *my car* while staying there. If that happens, RIV management will deal with it, just like they did at Poly, BLT and CR.

If the parking lot empties after EPCOT or HS closes, but it didn’t impact those staying at RIV, I guess I can’t see why I need to be upset.

I look at it this way - if Disney had to STOP the ADR $10 scam, all they need to do force proof of dining like a receipt before you exit or they charge a $50.00 parking fee. The fact is, ADR by nature, limits how many people can park for that $10.

CR/BLT is much stricter with parking than most other resorts and they make it work. So Disney knows how to do it, if they choose.

As far as the skyliner - at least for mornings, I had already figured if it’s a cluster at first at RIV, I’d take it to CBR, grab a coffee at Joffrey and ride it from there to EPCOT. I have to do that anyhow for HS. I expect “bugs” at first, until it shakes out, plus isn’t the new “toy” at Disney.

In theory if it’s so crazy with local residents using it for fun, they could limit it to AP holders, guests with active park hoppers, or on property guests. Link it to magic bands. But I’m not worried that a gondola will be the height of fun in FL beyond the first year or so.

I mostly feel for the guests at CBR whose hotel is going be the transfer station for both lines, I think that is the resort that will have need to protect the parking, restaurants and possibly pools.

But I’m a realist here - it will be crowded like the monorails, guests will exploit whatever holes Disney didn’t see coming, they’ll fix them. Then people will find new ways to game the system. It’s kind of how WDW goes.

Disney can makes its own rules to control access if all the feedback is “THIS IS AWFUL!”

 

[Pyotr]

I now don't think there is that much difference between the RIV rooms and the newly renovated SSR rooms- the RIV rooms are a bit better, but not much. What a good job DVC has done with that SSR upgrade I have to say- credit where it is due, the detailing is wonderful.

They did a great job! I haven’t seen any videos of the Riviera’s grand villas to it’s difficult to compare.

Are there any videos of the 1 or 2 bedrooms?

 

[ScubaCat]

The new walkway mitigates that regret significantly, but not before it left its mark and made me gun shy about buying into Riviera which again, on paper, in videos, and in reading about it, looks so great to me. I just can't stomach that kind of regret a second time.

I think it's more than reasonable -- one might even call it "smart" -- to see a resort and possibly even stay there once before making a large timeshare purchase at it. I'm surprised how many people buy sight-unseen, especially before it's even built!

Walking into and out of a park while I still can is my nice toilet paper, and I'm comfortable with that.

Did they REALLY have to end that angel soft contract? I mean of all things to cut back on.

I digress.

 

[Bing Showei]

I think it's more than reasonable -- one might even call it "smart" -- to see a resort and possibly even stay there once before making a large timeshare purchase at it. I'm surprised how many people buy sight-unseen, especially before it's even built!

I’d wager there are probably many, many more people who buy a Disney timeshare resorts sight unseen and are super happy, than there are people who do so, regret it, and then have to sell... or at least are willing to admit it.