Solo: A Star Wars Story

[TheMaxRebo]

I see Luke's dark streak as he force chokes a gig guard at Jabba's Palace. I think it was always there, though he thought he could balance it.

As for the film, I guess after so many movies, I like that they threw us a curve ball. They can't all be by the numbers. Even Marvel took some risks, like with Guardians or Ant-Man (granted skewing more towards the funny), and that has paid off. Obviously TLJ didn't quite hit with everyone, but the extreme overreactions befuddle me. I mean, it's still a pretty good movie, as were the prequels.

not to mention when he first goes to strike at the Emperor showing he "gave in to the dark side" - or when he is going ham on his dad just raining down strikes on him, chopping off his hand, etc.

 

[BrianL]

not to mention when he first goes to strike at the Emperor showing he "gave in to the dark side" - or when he is going ham on his dad just raining down strikes on him, chopping off his hand, etc.

Or the fact that he chose black robes.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Or the fact that he chose black robes.

yup, he started out in white, went to black (showing his shift) and now is in gray showing he is neutral on the Force/not into the light vs dark

 

[jade1]

yup, he started out in white, went to black (showing his shift) and now is in gray showing he is neutral on the Force/not into the light vs dark

Yep he has gone back and forth to some degree. And I again can look past that, just to make a good movie, you need heros and villains to clash. Otherwise what's the point?

When he heard how far off the rails Ren was, and killed his own father and Luke's good friend-that was the moment he could have gotten back on track and kicked some butt.

I guess some can hope the Avengers go neutral next spring, and go hold hands with The Villian and watch the sun rise.

Eh it was just a bunch of Avengers and half the world.

But I'm not in that camp.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Yep he has gone back and forth to some degree. And I again can look past that, just to make a good movie, you need heros and villains to clash. Otherwise what's the point?

When he heard how far off the rails Ren was, and killed his own father and Luke's good friend-that was the moment he could have gotten back on track and kicked some butt.

I guess some can hope the Avengers go neutral next spring, and go hold hands with Thanos and watch the sun rise.

Eh it was just a bunch of Avengers and half the world.

But I'm not in that camp.

Oh yeah, by no means am I saying it is perfect and I think some small changes could have made it a lot better ... even have it play out largely like it did (as Luke has been "broken") but then Yoda talk to Luke so that he understands it doesn't have to play out like it did in the past and Rey is that "new hope" for a different path and Luke then does take up and go get into the fight (even if starts out with just his projection, but then that doesn't kill him so he is around to continue) ... something like that I think improves it without changing much

 

[jknezek]

not to mention when he first goes to strike at the Emperor showing he "gave in to the dark side" - or when he is going ham on his dad just raining down strikes on him, chopping off his hand, etc.

Canon never says the Jedi were nice or meek, especially when fighting. Quite the opposite in most respects. In Clone wars they are quite ferocious, same with the prequels. Windu and his group attacked Palpatine, and Yoda forced a confrontation with him. The Jedi of Kenobi in IV is very different from how canon proceeded.

As for robe colors, they varied wildly. I've seen that theory before but it doesn't hold up well with all the canon. For example, in Jabba's Palace Luke's robe is actually brown. His outfit is black. And he wears a black robe, or at least charcoal, in parts of TLJ. Mace Windu wears dark purple at times. There are plenty more examples.

 

[jade1]

Oh yeah, by no means am I saying it is perfect and I think some small changes could have made it a lot better ... even have it play out largely like it did (as Luke has been "broken") but then Yoda talk to Luke so that he understands it doesn't have to play out like it did in the past and Rey is that "new hope" for a different path and Luke then does take up and go get into the fight (even if starts out with just his projection, but then that doesn't kill him so he is around to continue) ... something like that I think improves it without changing much

Yea that's a good point, I just also had a hard time with no Lineage for Rey, no Char growth for Rey, and she suddenly is the best Pilot, Saber and Force Fighter ever but Oh well.

 

[BrianL]

Canon never says the Jedi were nice or meek, especially when fighting. Quite the opposite in most respects. In Clone wars they are quite ferocious, same with the prequels. Windu and his group attacked Palpatine, and Yoda forced a confrontation with him. The Jedi of Kenobi in IV is very different from how canon proceeded.

As for robe colors, they varied wildly. I've seen that theory before but it doesn't hold up well with all the canon. For example, in Jabba's Palace Luke's robe is actually brown. His outfit is black. And he wears a black robe, or at least charcoal, in parts of TLJ. Mace Windu wears dark purple at times. There are plenty more examples.

Yeah, but Jedi never attempt to strike an unarmed opponent. I mean, yeah, is Palpatine ever really unarmed, but Luke did exactly what Palpatine wanted him to do, which was strike out in anger.

The robe thing was a joke, hence my , however I do think the white/black/grey colors are a message to the audience, but they have no real significance in-universe.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Yea that's a good point, I just also had a hard time with no Lineage for Rey, no Char growth for Rey, and she suddenly is the best Pilot, Saber and Force Fighter ever but Oh well.

Well, in some of the books they explain how Rey learned to fly and why she is good (while stuck on Jakku she scavaged a flight sim that she restored and that occupied a lot of her time when she had nothing else to do and then she was able to scavage the parts to build restore a ship to sell it)

I do think the lineage thing might get updated in episode IX - one reason I feel I can't fully rate VIII until IX comes out

side note, if you haven't watched it yet I highly recommend the "How it should have ended" for the Last Jedi on the youtubes

 

[jknezek]

Yeah, but Jedi never attempt to strike an unarmed opponent. I mean, yeah, is Palpatine ever really unarmed, but Luke did exactly what Palpatine wanted him to do, which was strike out in anger.

So does Kenobi after Qi Gon is killed. Jedi were supposed to avoid anger and hate, canon is full of episodes where they don't. It is the one path to the darkside, but you have to take more than a step or two in grief. That's a very thin example.

 

[BrianL]

So does Kenobi after Qi Gon is killed. Jedi were supposed to avoid anger and hate, canon is full of episodes where they don't. It is the one path to the darkside, but you have to take more than a step or two in grief. That's a very thin example.

But Obi-Wan didn't attempt to strike an unarmed opponent. He was definitely upset by Qui-Gon's death, but I'm not sure I'd call that anger. Certainly other Jedi have indeed acted on their darker impulses, but it is always a failing. That is not according to the Jedi teachings. Mace is known for channeling the Dark Side as well. That's how a Jedi can fall to the Dark Side, and it's always a risk. Luke has displayed these tendencies, so that's why I say he had a dark streak. Now, if it were Yoda, yeah, that'd be out of left field, but Luke's always waked that line, like Mace and some others. I don't really see it in Obi-Wan either, though he is occasionally emotional.

 

[jknezek]

But Obi-Wan didn't attempt to strike an unarmed opponent. He was definitely upset by Qui-Gon's death, but I'm not sure I'd call that anger. Certainly other Jedi have indeed acted on their darker impulses, but it is always a failing. That is not according to the Jedi teachings. Mace is known for channeling the Dark Side as well. That's how a Jedi can fall to the Dark Side, and it's always a risk. Luke has displayed these tendencies, so that's why I say he had a dark streak. Now, if it were Yoda, yeah, that'd be out of left field, but Luke's always waked that line, like Mace and some others. I don't really see it in Obi-Wan either, though he is occasionally emotional.

Luke never struck an unarmed opponent that I can remember. A man who can shoot lightning from his hands is not unarmed. The closest he got is trying to murder his nephew in his sleep. Which is my original point that it was a garbage character assassination.

 

[BrianL]

Luke never struck an unarmed opponent that I can remember. A man who can shoot lightning from his hands is not unarmed. The closest he got is trying to murder his nephew in his sleep. Which is my original point that it was a garbage character assassination.

That's what I meant about "is Palpatine ever really unarmed," but the point is that he goaded Luke into lashing out in anger. He even says "Take your Jedi weapon. Use it! I am unarmed." So, as far as Luke's concerned he is unarmed and the reason he acts is because Palpatine made him angry. Of course Palpatine was never in any danger between his own power and Vader being right there, but that's not really the point.

I'm not sure where this notion that Luke was some paragon of virtue, the perfect Jedi Knight, comes from. He really wasn't. He was barely trained and often showed a lack of patience. He's certainly a great character, and I love him, but he has his flaws.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Luke never struck an unarmed opponent that I can remember. A man who can shoot lightning from his hands is not unarmed. The closest he got is trying to murder his nephew in his sleep. Which is my original point that it was a garbage character assassination.

I don't think he ever tried to murder him - he was struck by the level of darkness in him and instinctual lit his lightsaber but then turned it off once he realized what was happening

 

[jknezek]

That's what I meant about "is Palpatine ever really unarmed," but the point is that he goaded Luke into lashing out in anger. He even says "Take your Jedi weapon. Use it! I am unarmed." So, as far as Luke's concerned he is unarmed and the reason he acts is because Palpatine made him angry. Of course Palpatine was never in any danger between his own power and Vader being right there, but that's not really the point.

Pretty sure Luke knew that a lightsaber isn't the only weapon a Force user possesses. Kenobi influenced minds in front of him, Yoda lifted his starfighter. Luke wasn't stupid enough to believe Palpatine was unarmed just because he said so. That's ridiculous. Sorry.

I'm not sure where this notion that Luke was some paragon of virtue, the perfect Jedi Knight, comes from. He really wasn't. He was barely trained and often showed a lack of patience. He's certainly a great character, and I love him, but he has his flaws.

I agree with the bolded part 100%. Where I differ is that there is anything about Luke that makes it plausible he would grow so afraid of the potential of his nephew that he would try and murder him in his sleep. Then abandon his students, family, cause, and everything important to him while running away, and refusing to come back when asked, despite leaving a map. There is nothing in the character that would have that be remotely plausible. He saved Vader, who was arguably more gone than anyone but Palpatine in canon. Vader oversaw the destruction of an entire planet with hardly a blink. Ben Solo was a student. His nephew. Luke was responsible for him. The way Kylo Ren is written there is clearly more conflict in him than there was in Vader prior to the last 10 minutes of RotJ, by a mile. But Luke tried to murder Ben before he even became Kylo whereas he almost died, several times, trying to save Vader? Completely out of character and you can't convince me it isn't because the canon is pretty explicit.

I don't think he ever tried to murder him - he was struck by the level of darkness in him and instinctual lit his lightsaber but then turned it off once he realized what was happening

The one truism every soldier or warrior is taught is you don't pull a weapon unless you are prepared to use it. Luke brought the ultimate weapon into his nephew's room, while he was sleeping, unarmed, and unaware, lit it, and just about killed him. It was premeditated. If it was spur of the moment, he wouldn't have been perving on his sleeping nephew for crying out loud. You can't excuse this. In the flashback Luke might still have killed him if Ben hadn't awoken and kicked his butt to escape. That is not Luke. Rian Johnson gave him an entirely new personality, completely unrelated to the Luke we had known before.

Anyway, we're going in circles. Some people can obviously excuse the blatant destruction of canon Luke. I can't, so I'll just leave it alone.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Anyway, we're going in circles. Some people can obviously excuse the blatant destruction of canon Luke. I can't, so I'll just leave it alone.

fully agree we are going in circles, I (and others) obviously saw it different than you (and many others) and is what it is ...

... so about Solo

 

[leiaorgana]

Yea that's a good point, I just also had a hard time with no Lineage for Rey, no Char growth for Rey, and she suddenly is the best Pilot, Saber and Force Fighter ever but Oh well.

As a PP said, Rey found a flight simulator when she was on Jakku and spent a lot of time training with that hence why she’s such a good pilot.

She also spent time training with various melee weapons (her staff etc) because of Unkar Plutt’s thugs and other scavengers trying to steal from her and it’s also been stated that when Rey and Kylo connected during the torture scene in TFA she basically “downloaded” his force skill set and that is why she’s so strong with the force. In TLJ when she’s training with the saber on Ahch-To she’s copying Kylo’s moves/fighting style which is why Luke looks so concerned.

Anyway, back to Solo discussion in the Solo thread, I’m looking forward to seeing Chewie’s family being reintroduced and seeing Corellia on screen. I have a lot of faith in Ron Howard and enjoyed all of the behind the scenes photos he shared during filming. He seems like he really gets the Star Wars universe.

I’m also loving all of the praise Alden’s been getting recently too. He won me over as soon as he did the “finger point” and “Han Stance” in the trailer. He got Harrison’s seal of approval the other day so hopefully people will start to lay off him soon.

 

[jade1]

As a PP said, Rey found a flight simulator when she was on Jakku and spent a lot of time training with that hence why she’s such a good pilot.

She also spent time training with various melee weapons (her staff etc) because of Unkar Plutt’s thugs and other scavengers trying to steal from her and it’s also been stated that when Rey and Kylo connected during the torture scene in TFA she basically “downloaded” his force skill set and that why she’s so strong with the force. In TLJ when she’s training with the saber on Ahch-To she’s copying Kylo’s moves/fighting style which is why Luke looks so concerned.

Must have been a Falcon Simulator.

Again I have no problem with girls with no training and lineage beating Jedi Masters with weapons they have never used in a few days time, just "build" the char first.

Rey is awesome-just justify the awesomeness.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Speaking of Solo ...

a full review of the movie from one of my preferred sources:
http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2018/05...ory-is-a-good-movie-in-search-of-a-movie-star

 

[DVCcurious]

I just find it crazy that one Star Wars movie turned so many people off. The prequels weren’t good and people survived and moved on. It just seems with the Last Jedi some people were so turned off they don’t want to watch Star Wars ever again.

Luke Skywalker raised his lightsaber out of fear and tried to kill his nephew.

Luke Skywalker. The man who hid under the stairs of the throne room and told Darth Vader “I will not fight you”. He only fought Vader when his sister was threatened. That man decided to kill his nephew because his nephew was checking out the dark side?

A New Hope: “The princess she’s here! We’ve gotta do something, we’ve gotta help her.”

Empire Strikes Back: “I cant get the vision out of my head, they’re my friends I have to help them”

Return of the Jedi: “there is still good in you. The emporer hasn’t driven it from you fully”

The Last Jedi: “you don’t need Luke Skywalker. You think I came to the most unfindable place in the galaxy for no reason at all? Go away.”