Teen Female Suicide Way Up

[RamblingMad]

This graph is nuts. No phone for you.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-d...for-girls-are-rising-are-smartphones-to-blame

If you can’t read it, the take away is that it’s gone up, but the reason is inconclusive right now. It’s still troubling

 

[Traveling on cc points]

I couldn’t read the story from the link but your title says it all.
So devastating.

 

[GreatLakes]

Interesting. The delta for female teens is very high but still below male teens. This is as of 2020. I'd be interested to see if it starts to drop post-COVID or continues to rise.

I can only see the graph and not the story but here is the graph if anyone can't even see that:

 

[starlite_]

This graph is nuts. No phone for you.

https://www.economist.com/graphic-d...for-girls-are-rising-are-smartphones-to-blame

If you can’t read it, the take away is that it’s gone up, but the reason is inconclusive right now. It’s still troubling

Well, considering that it went up during covid, I don't think isolating teens is the best way to prevent it. Social media cults are nuts tho, so I can see why teen suicide would spike too.

 

[DLgal]

Sad stuff.

 

[Lumpy1106]

I know it seems like a lifetime ago, but remember what we were concerned about before COVID? It was screen time. And what did we do during COVID? We cut kids off from their friends EXCEPT through screens. Social media platforms like Facebook, Tick-Tok, Instagram etc. have not changed. They have always been a problem. Watch "The Social Dilemma" on Netflix. It's truly excellent and so, so scary!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Social_Dilemma

That latest uptick since COVID started is no surprise to me. My DD was severely depressed during the shut-downs. The only thing that took her out of the tailspin was when we were able to get her back on the lacrosse field. There are a couple of other troubling things that came from the COVID shutdowns that I have not seen discussed anywhere;

1. The prevalence of teens, and especially girls that now identify as trans. I am not saying that there are no people who are trans, but it's a fraction of a percent. Teen girls, especially those that were high-school age during the shutdowns are identifying as trans at an astonishing rate. I don't have the exact data, but anecdotally we are seeing double digit percentages.
2. Teens don't date anymore. I have an 18 and a 21 year old and neither has had a partner - ever. This is the norm, not the exception. My 18 year old will spend long hours communicating with her friends on-line, but when we suggest that they go see a movie, or go to a school function you would have thought we'd suggested they move to the moon.

So to anyone who supported the closure of schools because "kids are resilient" and they'll recover, no, that's simply not true.

 

[Colleen27]

I know it seems like a lifetime ago, but remember what we were concerned about before COVID? It was screen time. And what did we do during COVID? We cut kids off from their friends EXCEPT through screens. Social media platforms like Facebook, Tick-Tok, Instagram etc. have not changed. They have always been a problem. Watch "The Social Dilemma" on Netflix. It's truly excellent and so, so scary!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Social_Dilemma

That latest uptick since COVID started is no surprise to me. My DD was severely depressed during the shut-downs. The only thing that took her out of the tailspin was when we were able to get her back on the lacrosse field. There are a couple of other troubling things that came from the COVID shutdowns that I have not seen discussed anywhere;

1. The prevalence of teens, and especially girls that now identify as trans. I am not saying that there are no people who are trans, but it's a fraction of a percent. Teen girls, especially those that were high-school age during the shutdowns are identifying as trans at an astonishing rate. I don't have the exact data, but anecdotally we are seeing double digit percentages.
2. Teens don't date anymore. I have an 18 and a 21 year old and neither has had a partner - ever. This is the norm, not the exception. My 18 year old will spend long hours communicating with her friends on-line, but when we suggest that they go see a movie, or go to a school function you would have thought we'd suggested they move to the moon.

So to anyone who supported the closure of schools because "kids are resilient" and they'll recover, no, that's simply not true.

I absolutely, completely could not agree more with both of your two observations.

Among DD14's friends, more of the girls identify as trans than not... and I think it is a very particular form of rejecting the expectations and burdens our culture places on women, especially young women, but I also think it isn't healthy for girls to feel like their own identity is so problematic or undesirable that they're driven to reject it. It isn't that they feel like they are male, as is the case for the trans adults I know, but rather that they want to be/wish they were. And the reasons for that that I've heard from the 14 & 15yos in my world are really troubling, touching on issues of body image and sexual assault and self-determination and fundamental worth in ways that are really hard to hear.

And #2... that is the weirdest thing! It isn't just romantic relationships. They just don't hang out IRL with anyone. DD14 has a pretty tight circle of friends at school and is in near-constant digital contact with them, but I can count on one hand the number of times she's actually gone somewhere with a friend outside of school and school-related functions. And even then, it is mostly a different circle of friends - her long-time bestie who goes to a different high school, the kids she attended private K-8 with, or the neighbor kid who runs D&D games. Not the people she hangs out with every day, texts constantly, and considers her primary friend group. She's the first of my kids to have a high school romance, though, and her boyfriend does come over or they go hang out at the coffee shop or library after school, which from what I understand is a lot more social contact than most of her friends have.

This generation was struggling before covid, and the pandemic only accelerated and deepened the anti-social trends already eroding their sense of connection and self. It is no wonder they're having a hard time finding ways to reconnect now.

 

[RamblingMad]

I absolutely, completely could not agree more with both of your two observations.

Among DD14's friends, more of the girls identify as trans than not... and I think it is a very particular form of rejecting the expectations and burdens our culture places on women, especially young women, but I also think it isn't healthy for girls to feel like their own identity is so problematic or undesirable that they're driven to reject it. It isn't that they feel like they are male, as is the case for the trans adults I know, but rather that they want to be/wish they were. And the reasons for that that I've heard from the 14 & 15yos in my world are really troubling, touching on issues of body image and sexual assault and self-determination and fundamental worth in ways that are really hard to hear.

And #2... that is the weirdest thing! It isn't just romantic relationships. They just don't hang out IRL with anyone. DD14 has a pretty tight circle of friends at school and is in near-constant digital contact with them, but I can count on one hand the number of times she's actually gone somewhere with a friend outside of school and school-related functions. And even then, it is mostly a different circle of friends - her long-time bestie who goes to a different high school, the kids she attended private K-8 with, or the neighbor kid who runs D&D games. Not the people she hangs out with every day, texts constantly, and considers her primary friend group. She's the first of my kids to have a high school romance, though, and her boyfriend does come over or they go hang out at the coffee shop or library after school, which from what I understand is a lot more social contact than most of her friends have.

This generation was struggling before covid, and the pandemic only accelerated and deepened the anti-social trends already eroding their sense of connection and self. It is no wonder they're having a hard time finding ways to reconnect now.

My youth was more like Stranger Things or It in the 80s than what you're describing. We had significant others in grade school. And we played Nintendo back then too. But no one really had cell phones until they started working, and social media wasn't much of a thing even in university in the 90s.

I'm trying to wrap my head around how things could have changed so much.

And the last thing anyone I knew would even consider is rejecting their gender. Where did this come from? Is this the new way to rebel?

 

[dreamer17555]

I know it seems like a lifetime ago, but remember what we were concerned about before COVID? It was screen time. And what did we do during COVID? We cut kids off from their friends EXCEPT through screens. Social media platforms like Facebook, Tick-Tok, Instagram etc. have not changed. They have always been a problem. Watch "The Social Dilemma" on Netflix. It's truly excellent and so, so scary!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Social_Dilemma

That latest uptick since COVID started is no surprise to me. My DD was severely depressed during the shut-downs. The only thing that took her out of the tailspin was when we were able to get her back on the lacrosse field. There are a couple of other troubling things that came from the COVID shutdowns that I have not seen discussed anywhere;

1. The prevalence of teens, and especially girls that now identify as trans. I am not saying that there are no people who are trans, but it's a fraction of a percent. Teen girls, especially those that were high-school age during the shutdowns are identifying as trans at an astonishing rate. I don't have the exact data, but anecdotally we are seeing double digit percentages.
2. Teens don't date anymore. I have an 18 and a 21 year old and neither has had a partner - ever. This is the norm, not the exception. My 18 year old will spend long hours communicating with her friends on-line, but when we suggest that they go see a movie, or go to a school function you would have thought we'd suggested they move to the moon.

So to anyone who supported the closure of schools because "kids are resilient" and they'll recover, no, that's simply not true.

I’m not seeing this at all.

To give you some context, I have a 21-year-old daughter, and a 16 year old son. My daughter went to a residential HS art school where Hunter Schafer went while she was in school. Hunter was one of two open trans students (I say open because I am unsure if there were more) however, being an arts campus there were a lot more people identifying as LGBTQ+ . Now what they didn’t have a lot at her school was bullying. One kid chose to wear a cape every single day to class, and nobody said a word. It was the type of school where a student dressed up as Steve from blue‘s clues and spent his free period knocking on classroom doors, asking if anybody had a clue from blue. (It was also a school that provided my daughter with the education my that earned her all fives on her AP exams and a full ride to college.)

People absolutely had boyfriends and girlfriends (same sex and opposite sex) there. She is now in a college that is extremely conservative in comparison. There are absolutely people who have boyfriends and girlfriends. In fact 80% of her friends are in long term relationships. Until recently, my daughter was in a relationship for over a year.

What teens don’t have is safe places to just hang out together and make mistakes. There is no going to the mall in groups. Most malls don’t allow teens to be unsupervised anymore.

Movies cost a fortune vs all the free (because parents are paying for it) streaming services they have access to.

They can’t really gather in parks without getting harassed.

It’s definitely not my generation where we would all sneak away and have bonfires and get drunk. In fact, most of them can’t get away with anything because their parents are constantly tracking their phones. This tracking of everybody is causing teen to make some more dangerous choices. Several times my daughter would wanted to leave a party, but had to wait for another group of four to join her group and when I suggested that they just split off and have two separate groups to head home (making sure somebody at least had a friend with them no matter what). She would explain that they couldn’t because that entire group of four had to leave their cell phones at the dorm because their parents had Life360 on it, and they didn’t want them to know that they were at a fraternity party because they would flip out.

My daughter got lucky because she was in a residential high school so every place on campus was a safe, awesome place to just hang out and talk. These were the type of kids who would go to the library rooftop with permission and watch the sunset over the skyline. Take arts photos in the fields, walk into downtown to have coffee at 10pm on a Saturday night- things most parents would never allow their kids to do without an adult watching over them.

Plus her and her HS friends didn’t have to really plan anything because they all lived together so they just kind of went like- yeah let’s go. Planning nowadays is actually harder because it’s so easy for people to pick up a cell phone send a text and cancel.

There is also so very little wiggle room for them to make mistakes today. Especially if you need a big scholarships for college; one bad class grade can sink your chances. Everything is highly competitive.

Plus, we don’t teach them how to socialize properly when they’re very little. We don’t let kids roam around the neighborhood and meet and find friends like they did when we were kids even though it’s actually safer now according to statistics. So they grow up isolated, where it’s hard to find friends or know how to make them.

When they do have friends, it’s stuff that we put together for them- activities, play dates, things like that . When that goes away as they get older, it’s so much harder for them to figure it out on their own as a teen.

 

[john7994]

Or perhaps, if we are just working from anecdotes and personal observations ...

In taking the example from our neighbors across the street, where the Husband from one had an affair with the Wife of the other - with five girls in between both households - have now found themselves living with a reality where those having the affair are now living together with three of those five girls (all under the age of 11) and forcing the other two girls (both older than 16) to accept this new situation by forcing the relationship to be a "new normal" in exchange for having a relationship with their father (financially and emotionally).

Anecdotally as well, our neighborhood of 27 homes has had five families dissolved due to infidelity in the last eight years with a total of 11 children impacted and eight of which are girls. So perhaps not as grabby as the bugaboos of today - but also not a new situation in our society either. Again, not suggesting this is statistically meaningful or anything.

So perhaps if we were to carry theories of what COVID lockdowns may or may not be responsible for - its plausible that forced proximity and closeness potentially exposed and magnified existing dysfunctions (whatever those might be) present in families/homes today - if we are actually addressing the topic of teen female suicide rates and exploring all reasons and rationales.

 

[mom2rtk]

Yet I remember all the conversations online about lockdowns. "What's the big deal? Just shut up and stay home." This outcome should be surprising to nobody.

 

[PollyannaMom]

Wow, the trend in that graph is so sad.

I haven't read everything (even some of the longer posts) but I really want to know what happened in tech in 2014.

 

[Boopuff]

Reading this makes me thank my lucky stars my girls are grown and didn't live through the height of the social media stuff. Screen time is an ugly thing. My oldest (a mom now) always stresses about what she sees on parenting sites, wondering if she's doing a good job. All the stress for no reason, and to think that young people have "surgically enhanced" people telling them how to eat, dress, etc. It's all too much for young people.

 

[Frwinkley]

I am a 3rd grade teacher and I am truly terrified. I am at the end of my career, and the change in the last 20 years is startling.

We were one of very few school districts in our area that opened in person in the fall of 2020. We gave families the option of remote learning and allowed them to make that decision based on their own circumstances. Many chose that option, but the school district was off the hook because we didn't force it upon them.

I blame every bit of this isolation/loneliness/depression (in both sexes) on screens. I can't have a conversation with a 9 year old without it turning into something he/she watched on YouTube. Some of them are not even operating in reality. They actually tell me that when they grow up they want to be either a YouTuber or an Influencer. It's unreal.

What I see at this very young age is their inability to communicate with their peers, work together and compromise.

I hate to sound like I'm 100 years old (not quite there yet), but parents have got to start limiting screen time. They are severely neglecting their children. That would mean that parents have got to be willing to put their own screens down too. I'm not convinced they are willing to make that sacrifice.

Something has got to change. We are damaging an entire generation and beyond.

 

[disney-inspired]

Or perhaps, if we are just working from anecdotes and personal observations ...

In taking the example from our neighbors across the street, where the Husband from one had an affair with the Wife of the other - with five girls in between both households - have now found themselves living with a reality where those having the affair are now living together with three of those five girls (all under the age of 11) and forcing the other two girls (both older than 16) to accept this new situation by forcing the relationship to be a "new normal" in exchange for having a relationship with their father (financially and emotionally).

Anecdotally as well, our neighborhood of 27 homes has had five families dissolved due to infidelity in the last eight years with a total of 11 children impacted and eight of which are girls. So perhaps not as grabby as the bugaboos of today - but also not a new situation in our society either. Again, not suggesting this is statistically meaningful or anything.

So perhaps if we were to carry theories of what COVID lockdowns may or may not be responsible for - its plausible that forced proximity and closeness potentially exposed and magnified existing dysfunctions (whatever those might be) present in families/homes today - if we are actually addressing the topic of teen female suicide rates and exploring all reasons and rationales.

That is SO sad. I can't imagine being a teen in one of those families. I would feel so heartbroken that one of my parents could do that to the other. Coming from a family w/o divorce (parents celebrated 38 years in Feb), I can't relate but can only think of my classmates who did go through it. As an adult, I think it's one thing to have a truth moment and decide on divorce, still a heartbreaking reality for any kid, because I think that could be processed better (of course, that's if it's amicable) but I feel infidelity would be such a stinging pain.

Again, this just my 2 cents from someone w/o experience in that situation.

I am a 3rd grade teacher and I am truly terrified. I am at the end of my career, and the change in the last 20 years is startling.

We were one of very few school districts in our area that opened in person in the fall of 2020. We gave families the option of remote learning and allowed them to make that decision based on their own circumstances. Many chose that option, but the school district was off the hook because we didn't force it upon them.

I blame every bit of this isolation/loneliness/depression (in both sexes) on screens. I can't have a conversation with a 9 year old without it turning into something he/she watched on YouTube. Some of them are not even operating in reality. They actually tell me that when they grow up they want to be either a YouTuber or an Influencer. It's unreal.

What I see at this very young age is their inability to communicate with their peers, work together and compromise.

I hate to sound like I'm 100 years old (not quite there yet), but parents have got to start limiting screen time. They are severely neglecting their children. That would mean that parents have got to be willing to put their own screens down too. I'm not convinced they are willing to make that sacrifice.

Something has got to change. We are damaging an entire generation and beyond.

I agree with you - I see it in my extended family and I do see how it impacts my nieces as well. They are hybrid homeschooled so they do get that classroom experience and love their school friends thankfully. My sister saw something she didn't like when it came to tv/tablets and it really changed how she let them have screen time. Now it's no screen time during the week and a set amount on the weekend. They do relate my parents' house as the 'fun' house because we have Nintendo Switch so they alway want to play when they come over and usually they do since it's not all the time. My youngest niece loves to play on the tablet but my sister will not allow any of them on YouTube at all. So when they do get screen time (tv or tablet) they are limited to PBS kids or Sago Mini.

The one show we all watch together? Bluey! We LOVE it. It's hilarious for us grownups too and thankfully episodes are really short.

 

[john7994]

That is SO sad. I can't imagine being a teen in one of those families. I would feel so heartbroken that one of my parents could do that to the other. Coming from a family w/o divorce (parents celebrated 38 years in Feb), I can't relate but can only think of my classmates who did go through it. As an adult, I think it's one thing to have a truth moment and decide on divorce, still a heartbreaking reality for any kid, because I think that could be processed better (of course, that's if it's amicable) but I feel infidelity would be such a stinging pain.

Very sad indeed. Consider the three youngest are now in an environment where the "dad" from next door is now living with mom in their new home and his daughters are made to visit in exchange for his continued relationship with them - as if nothing happened with the woman he had the affair (the older kids former neighbor from next door) present the entire time.

 

[dreamer17555]

I blame every bit of this isolation/loneliness/depression (in both sexes) on screens. I can't have a conversation with a 9 year old without it turning into something he/she watched on YouTube. Some of them are not even operating in reality. They actually tell me that when they grow up they want to be either a YouTuber or an Influencer. It's unreal.

Here’s the thing about this statement and I won’t disagree with your entire post but being a YouTuber or an influencer can be an actual lucrative career. There are people today who get paid to play video games. I don’t think it’s any different than a third grader saying they want to play for the NFL or on Broadway. Chances are about the same that it works out but it is a career that does happen for some.

I agree the kids don’t know how to solve conflicts on their own, but that’s because we also don’t give them space to solve conflicts on their own. So they don’t know how to compromise or how social dynamics work in tribes. They haven’t been given the freedom without adults hovering to figure it out.

Most schools have very limited recess (if any) and these kids aren’t being allowed to run around their neighborhoods and play unsupervised after school and figure out how to make mistakes and have friendship problems without their parents immediately stepping in to call so-and-so‘s parent.

And even if you want to be that renegade parent and let your child play outside, unsupervised people will attack you for it. My son is 16 granted he is special-needs (mentally closer to 13), but he rides his bike around my neighborhood almost daily, and the other day a neighbor came up to me and said “hey do you feel safe with him on his bike where you can’t see him? I worry about him every day I see him out by himself.” He is 16. Our neighborhood is three streets and three cal-de-sacs, he has a cell phone on him, I’m waiting at home for him. How is he not safe?

We are doing a serious disservice to these children by not giving them the same opportunities to make mistakes and make friends organically that we were given as children.

 

[Frwinkley]

Here’s the thing about this statement and I won’t disagree with your entire post but being a YouTuber or an influencer can be an actual lucrative career. There are people today who get paid to play video games. I don’t think it’s any different than a third grader saying they want to play for the NFL or on Broadway. Chances are about the same that it works out but it is a career that does happen for some.

I agree the kids don’t know how to solve conflicts on their own, but that’s because we also don’t give them space to solve conflicts on their own. So they don’t know how to compromise or how social dynamics work in tribes. They haven’t been given the freedom without adults hovering to figure it out.

Most schools have very limited recess (if any) and these kids aren’t being allowed to run around their neighborhoods and play unsupervised after school and figure out how to make mistakes and have friendship problems without their parents immediately stepping in to call so-and-so‘s parent.

And even if you want to be that renegade parent and let your child play outside, unsupervised people will attack you for it. My son is 16 granted he is special-needs (mentally closer to 13), but he rides his bike around my neighborhood almost daily, and the other day a neighbor came up to me and said “hey do you feel safe with him on his bike where you can’t see him? I worry about him every day I see him out by himself.” He is 16. Our neighborhood is three streets and three cal-de-sacs, he has a cell phone on him, I’m waiting at home for him. How is he not safe?

We are doing a serious disservice to these children by not giving them the same opportunities to make mistakes and make friends organically that we were given as children.

I agree with you 1000%. I see the helicopter parenting every single day in a variety of situations. Parents are just not willing to let Junior be unhappy or uncomfortable for even a millisecond. Kids are not learning any personal responsibility because parents swoop in all day everyday.

 

[Pink Partridge]

Yet I remember all the conversations online about lockdowns. "What's the big deal? Just shut up and stay home." This outcome should be surprising to nobody.

"Follow the science" And if you questioned the "science", you were a backwoods dummy and were attacked immediately.

Meanwhile, the science and statistics (even in real time) told us that teenagers were basically immune to what shut our schools down. A cold. As were most of their teachers under 50. Of course there were exceptions, but certainly not enough to collapse our entire educational system.

And now we see the outcome. And it will only be getting worse.

 

[john7994]

"Follow the science" And if you questioned the "science", you were a backwoods dummy and were attacked immediately.

Meanwhile, the science and statistics (even in real time) told us that teenagers were basically immune to what shut our schools down. A cold. As were most of their teachers under 50. Of course their were exceptions, but certainly not enough to collapse our entire educational system.

And now we see the outcome. And it will only be getting worse.

What explains the jump (according to the statistics provided by the OP) from 2014 to 2019 - the percent change looks to be 35% - how is this COVID related?