The Running Thread—2023

[IamTrike]

For me it's not really a matter of one being "better" than the other.
Treadmill != Outside running

I like running on a treadmill when I am recovering and I worried about additional impact on my joints, or when I am trying to do a hard interval workout at a pace that I haven't done in a while or when I am trying to get in a run when I have to multi-task.

I like running outside for long runs, when I am running with friends or when I want give myself time to think when I run.

My pace tends to be faster at the same heart rate when I am running outside. ( I think my stride is longer and I lean forward more outside). Hills tend to be a lot harder for me on a treadmill than outside.

 

[DisneyParrothead]

When I started working with a coach, she had me slow waaaaay down on my long runs, and the treadmill really helped me train and figure out what a slower speed felt like. Then I could adapt that to outside once I was comfortable with it.

I also tend to melt in the heat, and made peace with the treadmill when I moved to Dallas. I rarely see the point in getting up super early to beat the sun when it's almost as miserable with heat and very little wind. I also like it for sprint work when a track isn't an option. My track club workout yesterday was cancelled because of heavy rain and thunder. That's carried over to today, and my coach has given me a hill workout with 6% incline.

 

[ckb_nc]

Race Report: Tar Heel Ten Miler

Background: My daughter and son-in-law live locally and are running the race. My new rule was if they invite me , I will run. I "retired" from longer distances in 2020, with my longest run since 2019 being 6.5 miles. I did the race in 2015 when my daughter was a freshman at UNC Chapel Hill. The race is one of the bigger in the state.

Training: I started in February adding miles on Saturdays, working up to 10 miles in March. April was going to be busy, but had plans to run ten miles the day before Easter, which was the day before vacation. Training went well up until then. Easter Saturday was raining with a wind chill of 38 - I decide to not run ten miles in the rain. Did 5 on the treadmill. Plans were to run a little on vacation then 6 Saturday. Small problem as we did not get back until late Saturday, having to drive back from Miami.

Race week I was just tired. The trip home with 18 hours plus in a car really took it out of me. I did get some training in but my lack of training started to mess with my confidence.

Day before the race we drove to Durham, and met up with my daughter and son-in-law who had my bib. My wife and I stayed in a hotel room about 20 minutes away.

Race morning - up on time, ate my oatmeal in the room, and my wife dropped me off - she was going to her Dad's who is 45 minutes away while we raced. My daughter and son-in-law would bring me back.

The race used to be a 10 miler and 4 miler at the same time; now the 4 miler goes off at 7:5 and the 10 a 7:45 - so some souls can do both. I got there early and was on the north side of the start line. Most of the racers were corralled on the south side. Plenty of time to hang around - which I hate. I hate getting to a race early and just hanging around. It drives me nuts. And this race required that in spades.

The start corral had banners (8 minutes and 9 minutes, etc). Silly me I lined up by those, only to realize that the pacer for the 10:30 group was ahead of the 9 minute banner. The race starts and it is just a sea of people. I spent the first 2 miles weaving and ducking. My favorite was 4 coeds running shoulder to shoulder, taking up an entire lane of a two lane road.

The entire race was like that for me. I remember looking down Franklin Street in Chapel Hill and it was just a sea of people.

The end of this race is basically one gigantic never-ending 1.5 miles of hill. The longest hill I have ever run, anywhere. I knew it was coming. It was a warm day and I took my time at the water stops. A storm system was moving in and several races to the west of us were either cancelled or suspended mid-race.

I ran the race just under a 10 minute pace, far off my goal. Looking back I took it out too easy. I usually race harder than that. I think if I had started further ahead I would have been faster. Yet I also was really quite tired.

As I finished, they started announcing we need to seek shelter. I literally crossed the finish line and walked through the food and water booths. I find my daughter and son-in-law and we left. They ended up having to suspend the race 20 minutes after I finished.

Will I run it again - maybe. It's an iconic race in the state of North Carolina. Looking back, I went out too easy. I ran much faster since then in training runs - by running harder.

 

[Mr_Incr3dible]

(fellow ATLien here) I'm a big fan of the Roswell Half in mid august.

https://www.alienhalf.com/

After looking it up, this looks like a cool race and I'm going to plan to run it.

 

[SheHulk]

I entered a sweepstakes and won a free entry to the race distance of my choice at Philadelphia Marathon Weekend: 8k, half marathon, or full marathon. Thank you Rothman Orthopedic Institute. I have the Chicago Marathon about 6 weeks prior, and Disneyland Half about 7 weeks after? Something like that. I think the full is out of the question but trying to decide between the half & 8k. None of these races are A races in that I don't have any specific time goals.

I hate to ask you lot because you will all say Marathon, but what would you do?

 

[Grabnar]

I entered a sweepstakes and won a free entry to the race distance of my choice at Philadelphia Marathon Weekend: 8k, half marathon, or full marathon. Thank you Rothman Orthopedic Institute. I have the Chicago Marathon about 6 weeks prior, and Disneyland Half about 7 weeks after? Something like that. I think the full is out of the question but trying to decide between the half & 8k. None of these races are A races in that I don't have any specific time goals.

I hate to ask you lot because you will all say Marathon, but what would you do?

Half should be enough time to recover after your full and not impact DL, especially if you don’t care about pace. I’d go for Half personally!

 

[prncssjas]

I entered a sweepstakes and won a free entry to the race distance of my choice at Philadelphia Marathon Weekend: 8k, half marathon, or full marathon. Thank you Rothman Orthopedic Institute. I have the Chicago Marathon about 6 weeks prior, and Disneyland Half about 7 weeks after? Something like that. I think the full is out of the question but trying to decide between the half & 8k. None of these races are A races in that I don't have any specific time goals.

I hate to ask you lot because you will all say Marathon, but what would you do?

I would not recommend the full at all, even though you have the fitness to do it. I would use the 8k (or maybe half?) to maintain fitness. Since none of these are A races without time goals, why risk injury? Treat them as training runs instead perhaps? I hope you have a great time!!

 

[flav]

I entered a sweepstakes and won a free entry to the race distance of my choice at Philadelphia Marathon Weekend: 8k, half marathon, or full marathon. Thank you Rothman Orthopedic Institute. I have the Chicago Marathon about 6 weeks prior, and Disneyland Half about 7 weeks after? Something like that. I think the full is out of the question but trying to decide between the half & 8k. None of these races are A races in that I don't have any specific time goals.

I hate to ask you lot because you will all say Marathon, but what would you do?

Is Philadelphia a bucket list item for you? If so, does it count if you choose another distance than the marathon? It is not a A race but are there parts of the course you want to “visit” more than other? Which is your A race, if any? How much of an investment (travel/hotel) does this take?

Personally, I would have trouble driving more than two hours for an 8k but if it is semi-local and the 8k covers most sites or fun area that I want to see, great. I am always pretty much ok with a half-marathon, so easy choice here. I would consider the marathon, even if I had Chicago before and Disneyland HM after, only to add to my list of been there, done that. At least, you don’t have Dopey 6 weeks after.

Hope that this helps.

 

[prncssjas]

QOTD: For those of you that sign up for races with a time/pace goal in mind, do you focus on a single race distance during your training cycle to try and accomplish that particular goal?

ATTQOFD: I am hoping to run a sub 2 hour half marathon BUT...I also want to run a 54 minute flat 10k. I am really hoping this multi-layered goal won't interfere with the other...but also wonder if they need to be two separate training cycles (focus on speed versus focus on longer distance for the half).

 

[SheHulk]

I would not recommend the full at all, even though you have the fitness to do it. I would use the 8k (or maybe half?) to maintain fitness. Since none of these are A races without time goals, why risk injury? Treat them as training runs instead perhaps? I hope you have a great time!!

Yeah I'm thinking "catered training run" here. And a marathon is a lot for me at any time. An 8k would be an automatic PR since I have never raced that distance!

Is Philadelphia a bucket list item for you? If so, does it count if you choose another distance than the marathon? It is not a A race but are there parts of the course you want to “visit” more than other? Which is your A race, if any? How much of an investment (travel/hotel) does this take?

Personally, I would have trouble driving more than two hours for an 8k but if it is semi-local and the 8k covers most sites or fun area that I want to see, great. I am always pretty much ok with a half-marathon, so easy choice here. I would consider the marathon, even if I had Chicago before and Disneyland HM after, only to add to my list of been there, done that. At least, you don’t have Dopey 6 weeks after.

Hope that this helps.

Definitely not bucket list... I ran the half last year and the full the previous year. And travel is a non-issue, as I live within walking distance to the start. I run the course for the 8k all the time in training, of course a race is different from just running on your own. The half is a really great, fun course! I think I'm talking myself into the half.

 

[SheHulk]

QOTD: For those of you that sign up for races with a time/pace goal in mind, do you focus on a single race distance during your training cycle to try and accomplish that particular goal?

ATTQOFD: I am hoping to run a sub 2 hour half marathon BUT...I also want to run a 54 minute flat 10k. I am really hoping this multi-layered goal won't interfere with the other...but also wonder if they need to be two separate training cycles (focus on speed versus focus on longer distance for the half).

Personally I focus on one race distance per training plan. Other races can be sprinkled in, but the one A race is the major goal per training cycle. I think unless you are really pretty seasoned as a runner and just whittling down at the minutes/seconds, any training to increase fitness at one distance will help you improve at the others as well though.

 

[SheHulk]

Half should be enough time to recover after your full and not impact DL, especially if you don’t care about pace. I’d go for Half personally!

Look at everybody with the sensible responses! Leaning half for sure.

 

[GreatLakes]

QOTD: For those of you that sign up for races with a time/pace goal in mind, do you focus on a single race distance during your training cycle to try and accomplish that particular goal?

ATTQOFD: I am hoping to run a sub 2 hour half marathon BUT...I also want to run a 54 minute flat 10k. I am really hoping this multi-layered goal won't interfere with the other...but also wonder if they need to be two separate training cycles (focus on speed versus focus on longer distance for the half).

Looking at Daniels' VDOT calculator the race equivalent of a 1:59:59 half is a 54:09 10K. I'd focus on training for the sub 2 half and it should get you to the 10K goal or close.

 

[flav]

ATTQOTD: It depends on how much of a “hard A” goal I have.

For my current training cycle, the goal is “It would be nice to accelerate some smaller distances so that I don’t completely sacrifice speed to endurance and slow down as I get older… All the while enjoying these multiple race challenges and catching up on these 2020 deferred races.” So yes, I had an occasion to push the 5k and I PRed. Then a week later I had passed on “pushing” a 10k because I was too tired. I still haven’t decided (and wont until moments before) what I am going to attempt on the 10k in Ottawa at the end of the month but, it won’t be improving my Marathon time.

If I had a very specific goal, like BQ, then I would only focus on that in a training cycle… Although I would not be surprised to suddenly PR in a smaller intermediate race because of the improved fitness.

 

[garneska]

QOTD: For those of you that sign up for races with a time/pace goal in mind, do you focus on a single race distance during your training cycle to try and accomplish that particular goal?

ATTQOFD: I am hoping to run a sub 2 hour half marathon BUT...I also want to run a 54 minute flat 10k. I am really hoping this multi-layered goal won't interfere with the other...but also wonder if they need to be two separate training cycles (focus on speed versus focus on longer distance for the half).

I agree with Great Lakes.

Looking at Daniels' VDOT calculator the race equivalent of a 1:59:59 half is a 54:09 10K. I'd focus on training for the sub 2 half and it should get you to the 10K goal or close.

I would aim for the the sub 2 half and you should get the 54 10k. That being said I would put the 10k A race later in the training cycle.

 

[PaDisneyCouple]

York YMCA Half Marathon May 7, 2023

I (Mrs. PaDisneyCouple) signed up for this race last year but because of a minor injury I deferred it to this year. My most recent Half was WDW 2020 where I PR’d at 2:35. My only other races since then were a virtual 5k in 2020 and Turkey Trot 5k last year. I have not been running much in the past few years, so my goal was 3 hours. I used the plan I got from @DopeyBadger last year. Based on my Turkey Trot time the planned goal of 2:54 (pace 13:19) was optimistic, but we decided to keep the plan as-is. I wanted to run 4 days per week and based on my low volume of running prior to starting the plan, my longest run was 8 miles. This caused me some concern about being able to maintain my pace for the entire race. My training went well. No missed workouts, and the only one that I altered was on April 30th because halfway through I was drenched from the rain. I even nailed the 10k race that he put in my plan which I chose to do on my own because there were no good options for an in-person race.



The race was well organized with good communication prior to the event. The deferral process was very easy. I did packet pick up the day before and it was very quick. Race parking was close and plentiful. There were water/nutrition/bathroom stops approximately every 2 miles, with medical personnel at mile 4 and the finish line. There were also several people patrolling on bikes and HAM radio operators. The course was out and back on the York County Rail Trail. The surface is crushed stone with an imperceptible elevation increase during the outbound and decrease on the inbound.



The race started at 7 am and then had a phased start every 10 minutes from 7:10 to 7:50. I had planned to start at 7:10 so I could have plenty of room to run/walk, but I left my house later than planned and started at 7:27. My first mile was 1 minute slower than goal pace but I knew I would make it up later. My first surprise came around 1.4 miles in: Sean was off to the left side of the trail with Austin. I was happy to see them but did not stop. My speed increased slightly during mile 2. Then a lady passed me and I thought maybe I could pace off of her. I knew her pace was a little too fast for me as she pulled away. When I saw her again after mile 4, she was about 1/10th mile ahead of me and I was able to keep pace with her. I was gradually able to get closer and passed her around mile 7. My second surprise came around mile 8: Sean was running towards me (without Austin). I recognized him immediately. He was wearing the shirt from last year’s race. Sean ran with me about 3.5 miles before turning around to go back to where he parked. He ran behind me to guarantee that I set the pace. Also, I didn’t need to worry about disturbing anyone who may be behind me when transitioned to my walking intervals. He even took my Sheetz order before he turned around: iced coffee, Shmiscuit with 2 egg patties, sausage, and cheddar cheese for me to eat when I got home. A passing marathoner overheard this conversation and laughed. I picked up more speed during the last mile and finished with a time of 2:46:57 and pace of 12:45 per mile. At the finish we were given a medal and a towel emblazoned with Gatorade all over it.



I snacked on a banana and orange slices then grabbed an Italian wrap, chocolate milk, water, and BBQ potato chips before heading to my car and returning home. They also had lemonade and Iced tea.



I enjoyed this race and will definitely consider doing it again. I am very familiar with the Rail Trail, as I run on it regularly. The crushed stone is my favorite surface to run on. This race is very easy to get to; especially on a Sunday morning.

 

[MissLiss279]

York YMCA Half Marathon May 7, 2023

I (Mrs. PaDisneyCouple) signed up for this race last year but because of a minor injury I deferred it to this year. My most recent Half was WDW 2020 where I PR’d at 2:35. My only other races since then were a virtual 5k in 2020 and Turkey Trot 5k last year. I have not been running much in the past few years, so my goal was 3 hours. I used the plan I got from @DopeyBadger last year. Based on my Turkey Trot time the planned goal of 2:54 (pace 13:19) was optimistic, but we decided to keep the plan as-is. I wanted to run 4 days per week and based on my low volume of running prior to starting the plan, my longest run was 8 miles. This caused me some concern about being able to maintain my pace for the entire race. My training went well. No missed workouts, and the only one that I altered was on April 30th because halfway through I was drenched from the rain. I even nailed the 10k race that he put in my plan which I chose to do on my own because there were no good options for an in-person race.



The race was well organized with good communication prior to the event. The deferral process was very easy. I did packet pick up the day before and it was very quick. Race parking was close and plentiful. There were water/nutrition/bathroom stops approximately every 2 miles, with medical personnel at mile 4 and the finish line. There were also several people patrolling on bikes and HAM radio operators. The course was out and back on the York County Rail Trail. The surface is crushed stone with an imperceptible elevation increase during the outbound and decrease on the inbound.



The race started at 7 am and then had a phased start every 10 minutes from 7:10 to 7:50. I had planned to start at 7:10 so I could have plenty of room to run/walk, but I left my house later than planned and started at 7:27. My first mile was 1 minute slower than goal pace but I knew I would make it up later. My first surprise came around 1.4 miles in: Sean was off to the left side of the trail with Austin. I was happy to see them but did not stop. My speed increased slightly during mile 2. Then a lady passed me and I thought maybe I could pace off of her. I knew her pace was a little too fast for me as she pulled away. When I saw her again after mile 4, she was about 1/10th mile ahead of me and I was able to keep pace with her. I was gradually able to get closer and passed her around mile 7. My second surprise came around mile 8: Sean was running towards me (without Austin). I recognized him immediately. He was wearing the shirt from last year’s race. Sean ran with me about 3.5 miles before turning around to go back to where he parked. He ran behind me to guarantee that I set the pace. Also, I didn’t need to worry about disturbing anyone who may be behind me when transitioned to my walking intervals. He even took my Sheetz order before he turned around: iced coffee, Shmiscuit with 2 egg patties, sausage, and cheddar cheese for me to eat when I got home. A passing marathoner overheard this conversation and laughed. I picked up more speed during the last mile and finished with a time of 2:46:57 and pace of 12:45 per mile. At the finish we were given a medal and a towel emblazoned with Gatorade all over it.



I snacked on a banana and orange slices then grabbed an Italian wrap, chocolate milk, water, and BBQ potato chips before heading to my car and returning home. They also had lemonade and Iced tea.



I enjoyed this race and will definitely consider doing it again. I am very familiar with the Rail Trail, as I run on it regularly. The crushed stone is my favorite surface to run on. This race is very easy to get to; especially on a Sunday morning.

Congratulations!!

 

[FFigawi]

I know you weren't the initiator, just the most recent poster and I was building on your "no middle ground" assertion. To summarize my positions:

Bananas:
Cilantro:
Treadmills:

You have bananas and cilantro mixed up

 

[dis_or_dat]

@nancipants - don't worry about the treadmill debate, it's nice to see the board going. Cadence/stride length and running form is another topic that gets a lot of comments.

 

[DopeyBadger]

QOTD: For those of you that sign up for races with a time/pace goal in mind, do you focus on a single race distance during your training cycle to try and accomplish that particular goal?

ATTQOFD: I am hoping to run a sub 2 hour half marathon BUT...I also want to run a 54 minute flat 10k. I am really hoping this multi-layered goal won't interfere with the other...but also wonder if they need to be two separate training cycles (focus on speed versus focus on longer distance for the half).

As others have pointed out, the VDOT 54 min 10k and 120 min HM are nearly identical. As long as the weather is ideal for the 10k race, I would do it about 4-6 weeks ahead of the HM attempt as a gauge of fitness. If you can do a <54 min 10k under ideal conditions and a similar course as the HM, then it should give you confidence that a sub-2 is attainable. If you can't hit the <54 min 10k under those conditions, then it doesn't mean you can't do the HM but you may want to shade a bit slower at the start of the HM and aim for a negative split.

For me, almost all of my training plans are an exclusive "A" race, and occasionally I'll do a single "B" race a few weeks prior. There are pros and cons to both methodologies and it's worth trying both to see if they match your desires for your running journey.