The Running Thread - 2020

[Goofed98]

Thanks John. The market is ridiculous right now. Selling would be great I would think. Buying, not so much. I got outbid on our first two houses we made offers on and one of them I offered $33k more than asking and got outbid by about $20k.

But I have another question for you, or anyone riding a road bike. How often do you get flat tires? I have had 3-4 since I got my bike. No idea why. I was riding yesterday, didn’t hit anything and suddenly my tire was going flat. Thankfully I bought an emergency repair kit and pump for such situations.

I've ridden in spurts for a few years (back on a more regular cycle), and in all the time I've ridden, I've had a single flat. It might be worth checking the rim tape inside your wheel to make sure there are no burrs (or have your local bike shop check it out). If you have any of the tires that have flatted, check to see if it's in the same place, which would be an obvious tell (of course, if you make a habit of collecting old tubes with flats, there may be a bigger issue to deal with) And maybe decrease pressure a touch? Not too much, or the tire can get pinched and you get a "snakebite" flat, but maybe not inflated to the max?

 

[Waiting2goback]

I've ridden in spurts for a few years (back on a more regular cycle), and in all the time I've ridden, I've had a single flat. It might be worth checking the rim tape inside your wheel to make sure there are no burrs (or have your local bike shop check it out). If you have any of the tires that have flatted, check to see if it's in the same place, which would be an obvious tell (of course, if you make a habit of collecting old tubes with flats, there may be a bigger issue to deal with) And maybe decrease pressure a touch? Not too much, or the tire can get pinched and you get a "snakebite" flat, but maybe not inflated to the max?

Yeah. I never thought to check the rim to see if something it causing it. The tires themselves are fine. It’s just the tubes. But I was actually thinking i might not now have enough air. Tire says a max of 120 psi and I use about 60 and they seem real hard so I stop there.

 

[FFigawi]

But I have another question for you, or anyone riding a road bike. How often do you get flat tires? I have had 3-4 since I got my bike. No idea why. I was riding yesterday, didn’t hit anything and suddenly my tire was going flat. Thankfully I bought an emergency repair kit and pump for such situations.

3-4 flats in a relatively short time frame is not normal. Sounds like you’re running the pressure too low. 60 is much lower than I’ve ever seen people use. Most tires these days are wider and designed for around 80-90. Try that and see if you have any better luck.

 

[Dopey 2020]

Did my second magic mile this weekend and...I don't like it. Nope nope nope. I always hated running until I was out of breath in school and pushing myself to do a mile as fast as I can at a steady pace means exactly that. It's the exact feeling that made me think I hated running for years. The second one came out worse than the first, I think partly because I waited until too late in the day, when it was hot, partly because I psyched myself out knowing I'd dislike it and went into it too tense (should have taken more time to try to loosen up before I started). And my performance on it is just...bad. I'm not projected to succeed at the marathon based on the numbers I'm getting from the magic mile and that's scaring me even though I have half a year to train. I know the purpose is to measure progress but it's still disheartening.

Those on the Galloway method, how's your experience with the MM? And do you run it on intervals, run it continuously, or run it on random run/walk breaks as you're able? I've been running it on intervals because I can't do a full mile continuously but I'm not sure if that's correct.

Fun to beat yourself up isn’t it? No. I started with Galloways plan and still walk run the full and any half that I’m trying to PR (I’m close on time but still faster with intervals over continuous) What I do now with my MM is put it in the middle of a 5 mile loop I run on a regular basis. When it’s time for my MM I go nice and easy to warm up for about 1.9 miles, walk about 20 seconds to recover a bit of HR then off I go until my watch pings 3 miles, slow down as much as needed to recover and head home at an easy pace. i think you could definitely pick a shorter distance to start, just settle into whatever feels good. I try to always run it the same once a month, same shorts, shirt, shoes, route. I think no matter how you choose to run it or the distance you pick the key is consistency. After a few months when the times change, you’ll know it’s because of performance not new shoes or a downhill route change.
What really amazes me is the math looking back at times and past races. The MM times and expected finish times from Galloways calculator are spot on.

 

[kleph]

Did my second magic mile this weekend and...I don't like it. Nope nope nope. I always hated running until I was out of breath in school and pushing myself to do a mile as fast as I can at a steady pace means exactly that. It's the exact feeling that made me think I hated running for years. The second one came out worse than the first, I think partly because I waited until too late in the day, when it was hot, partly because I psyched myself out knowing I'd dislike it and went into it too tense (should have taken more time to try to loosen up before I started). And my performance on it is just...bad. I'm not projected to succeed at the marathon based on the numbers I'm getting from the magic mile and that's scaring me even though I have half a year to train. I know the purpose is to measure progress but it's still disheartening.

Those on the Galloway method, how's your experience with the MM? And do you run it on intervals, run it continuously, or run it on random run/walk breaks as you're able? I've been running it on intervals because I can't do a full mile continuously but I'm not sure if that's correct.

fact: speed sucks

 

[TinkerBellLiz]

Did my second magic mile this weekend and...I don't like it. Nope nope nope. I always hated running until I was out of breath in school and pushing myself to do a mile as fast as I can at a steady pace means exactly that. It's the exact feeling that made me think I hated running for years. The second one came out worse than the first, I think partly because I waited until too late in the day, when it was hot, partly because I psyched myself out knowing I'd dislike it and went into it too tense (should have taken more time to try to loosen up before I started). And my performance on it is just...bad. I'm not projected to succeed at the marathon based on the numbers I'm getting from the magic mile and that's scaring me even though I have half a year to train. I know the purpose is to measure progress but it's still disheartening.

Those on the Galloway method, how's your experience with the MM? And do you run it on intervals, run it continuously, or run it on random run/walk breaks as you're able? I've been running it on intervals because I can't do a full mile continuously but I'm not sure if that's correct.

When Star Wars races were cancelled I switched to the Galloway beginning Marathon program to see if I should even consider Dopey. I use the Jeff Galloway LOLO app on my iPhone for intervals so yes, Magic Mile includes intervals. Maintenance runs are basically warmup/cool down and a 30 minute run, so my 2nd Mile is always a MM to determine my long run pace for the weekend. Some days are better than others, like today: heat index was 91 at sunrise and for the first time ever my stomach was unhappy with me. Remember a MM is a base to improve your pace. Hope this helps some and your runs get easier!

 

[kbenson13]

Yeah. I never thought to check the rim to see if something it causing it. The tires themselves are fine. It’s just the tubes. But I was actually thinking i might not now have enough air. Tire says a max of 120 psi and I use about 60 and they seem real hard so I stop there.

I'm no cyclist, so maybe I should keep my mouth shut. But I do ride and have ridden with groups a number of times. It seems like most everybody checks their tires and adds air before every ride I've been on. I've adopted the same practice and it has served me well. My tires almost always lose a little pressure overnight (or several nights) so I can always put at least a few pumps in. And the one time I didn't check my tires before a ride--I got a flat. So there may be something to that!

 

[camaker]

Yeah. I never thought to check the rim to see if something it causing it. The tires themselves are fine. It’s just the tubes. But I was actually thinking i might not now have enough air. Tire says a max of 120 psi and I use about 60 and they seem real hard so I stop there.

Most tires list a range of pressures. 60lbs seems awfully low for a tire with a 120lb max, especially if it’s a road tire.

 

[PrincessV]

I'm not projected to succeed at the marathon based on the numbers I'm getting from the magic mile and that's scaring me even though I have half a year to train. I know the purpose is to measure progress but it's still disheartening.

I don't do Magic Miles. I run because I enjoy it, not for any time goal, so I see no need. I'm well past my peak performance years, so I'm no longer looking for "progress," only enjoyment, so my perspective is maybe different. Regardless, not doing MMs has had no impact on my ability to get things done: 5 marathons and 3 Dopeys completed so far. If you have a time goal you really want to hit, I think you just have to embrace the suck and get some speed work done, whether it's a MM or something else. But if you just want to know if it's possible to finish, I don't think a MM this far out is going to tell you anything of much value. I'd be looking at your regular runs - are you under the 16:00 max? do you feel good at the end of a run? I find that information so much more valuable than a MM as an indicator of success, personally.

 

[run.minnie.miles]

Well summer is officially here... you that like to run in the heat are crazy! Let's kick it off with an old fashioned QOTD...

QOTD: What is your "rank of seasons" for running, starting with your favorite?

ATTQOTD:
1. Fall
2. Spring
3. Winter
4. Summer

 

[jmasgat]

So I could use a little pixie dust......

I’m having a recurrence of a previous cervical disc issue which just won’t go away with the usual “rest for a while”. I’m into my 4th week of zero physical activity and no better. I finally decided to go see a doctor, which happens tomorrow.

As a 61 yr old female with osteopenia, I know that things are likely to worsen over the years- and there is honestly no good treatment for it. But I am not ready for anyone to tell me to stop running. And the ironic thing is that this COVID quarantine has seen my commitment to strength training increase.

So if you have any to spare, I’ll take it.

 

[garneska]

Hang in there @jmasgat . Hopefully the doctor has some better news for you. i see the irony that you are doing more strength training during covid. i am on the opposite side, i am still running but have actually gotten worse about doing my strengthening exercises and my foam rolling.

 

[FFigawi]

Well summer is officially here... you that like to run in the heat are crazy! Let's kick it off with an old fashioned QOTD...

QOTD: What is your "rank of seasons" for running, starting with your favorite?

Winter
Spring
Fall
Summer

@jmasgat hope the doc can fix you up

 

[JulieODC]

1. Fall (Mostly because it’s such a relief after summer)
2. Spring
3. Winter
4. Summer (I detest running in the heat!)

 

[nursejackie]

1. Spring (i am ecstatic its the end of winter)
2. Autumn (beautiful scenery)
3. Summer (don't like running in warm weather, but not too bad in north of England)
4. Winter (i procrastinate the most on cold, winter mornings about going for a run)

 

[YawningDodo]

Not on the Galloway method personally, but mile time trials are a pain. You know you're doing it right when your breathing is really challenged. Which from the sounds of it is less ideal for you. So you could consider using a different distance as a measuring stick. The 5k/10k plans on runDisney use a 800m attempt instead of a mile.

View attachment 503291

It's shorter, and has two options for hard and not hard breathing (huffing and puffing). Alternatively, you could use a longer distance as a measuring stick. Like 5ks, 10ks, or HMs as "B" races along the way. These will be less challenging to your breathing. The disadvantage to using a longer distance as a measuring stick in the midst of a training plan is that it requires more recovery from it. A mile is a relatively short race and only requires a few days recovery at most. Whereas, a HM would require a significantly longer amount of recovery (dependent on how hard you race it of course). At the end of the day, whether you use the mile, 800m, or a longer distance, it'll give you good data on which to draw conclusions.

And don't be discouraged by the results. It's entirely possible you're just not as skilled at a mile time trial as you are at a longer distance. It's uncommon in my experience helping others to see them outperform in the longer distance, but it happens. In my own experience, I ran a 39:55 10k in Jan 2018. But I'm still off on the mile equivalent (5:38) given my PR is now recently 5:42 (May 2020). My 6:12 mile time trial earlier this year suggested 21 min 5k, 43 min 10k, and 1:37 HM which I feel confident I could smash (since I ran a 1:28 HM in November). Outside of this recent training plan where I specifically trained towards the mile, I've never been "good" at the mile time trials.

As for how to run it, I usually guide people to try and run it at the 95% effort level as fast as you can from point A to point B. So for some that means continuous running, others with scheduled run/walk, and others unscheduled run/walk. I've seen all three methodologies yield the best personal outcome in the MM when we tried other methods.

Thank you for the perspective--and for the thoughts on doing a shorter time trial! I might take that up with the next one if only to build up my confidence a tiny bit. It sounds like I'm at least doing the MM trial correctly if I'm supposed to be breathing hard--the Galloway marathon plan did indicate that it's the one time in training I should be "huffing and puffing." And good to know that there's no one right way to do it as far as intervals or no; I'm going to keep experimenting with different intervals on it, maybe try it with unscheduled run/walk on the next one just to see how that goes. I think I've been putting about the right effort level toward it; it's only been relatively recently that I feel like I've gotten good at gauging effort level and how much I can give to a long run; speed is a whole new ballgame.

On the one hand, I am inclined to think I should assume that the MM calculations are accurate rather than reassure myself that I'm a special case who's just good at long runs and bad at speed. On the other hand, I'm generally hitting minimum pace requirements on long runs as I increase my distance despite MM calculations predicting my long run pace is in the 18 minute range rather than the 16 minute range. So I don't know. I don't want to ignore this aspect of training and calculations, but I honestly do not know if it's accurately reflecting where I am.

Fun to beat yourself up isn’t it? No. I started with Galloways plan and still walk run the full and any half that I’m trying to PR (I’m close on time but still faster with intervals over continuous) What I do now with my MM is put it in the middle of a 5 mile loop I run on a regular basis. When it’s time for my MM I go nice and easy to warm up for about 1.9 miles, walk about 20 seconds to recover a bit of HR then off I go until my watch pings 3 miles, slow down as much as needed to recover and head home at an easy pace. i think you could definitely pick a shorter distance to start, just settle into whatever feels good. I try to always run it the same once a month, same shorts, shirt, shoes, route. I think no matter how you choose to run it or the distance you pick the key is consistency. After a few months when the times change, you’ll know it’s because of performance not new shoes or a downhill route change.
What really amazes me is the math looking back at times and past races. The MM times and expected finish times from Galloways calculator are spot on.

Makes sense. I've been driving to the park instead of starting from home when I run a MM because they have a level trail that's marked every quarter mile--very useful for this. On my first MM I did a little over half a mile easy warmup and at least felt fairly good; on the more recent one that went very badly I had a shorter warmup--so I think that goes into it a lot. I'm halfway considering walking/light jogging to the park on MM days (it's 2 miles each way; I use it as a waypoint any time I have a 4 mile run on my schedule) just to give myself a chance to really loosen up.

I don't do Magic Miles. I run because I enjoy it, not for any time goal, so I see no need. I'm well past my peak performance years, so I'm no longer looking for "progress," only enjoyment, so my perspective is maybe different. Regardless, not doing MMs has had no impact on my ability to get things done: 5 marathons and 3 Dopeys completed so far. If you have a time goal you really want to hit, I think you just have to embrace the suck and get some speed work done, whether it's a MM or something else. But if you just want to know if it's possible to finish, I don't think a MM this far out is going to tell you anything of much value. I'd be looking at your regular runs - are you under the 16:00 max? do you feel good at the end of a run? I find that information so much more valuable than a MM as an indicator of success, personally.

While I am overall looking for progress and improvement, the goal right now is just to finish the WDW marathon without getting swept--that alone would be a big improvement over my general fitness level leading up to this point in my life. So I think even though our approach might be a bit different, your advice here still applies. I need to sync my runs to my phone so I can really review them (I have not been data-focused lately, though I have been recording everything) and get a feel for where I'm at in pacing, but off the top of my head I want to say I'm hovering right around the 16:00/mile pace--sometimes a little under, sometimes a little over. I can hit 15:00 for a solid two miles but can't maintain it for a long run. I do generally feel good at the ends of my runs, which is why it's been a bit of a shock to dislike MM so intensely--I had actually forgotten what it was like to run and just genuinely not enjoy it or feel good afterward.

Like I said above, I'm wary of just tossing this tool out of my training--it exists for a reason and it works for other people. But it might help me mentally and emotionally to know that it's not necessarily the only indicator of whether I'll be able to finish the marathon at the minimum required pace.

Well summer is officially here... you that like to run in the heat are crazy! Let's kick it off with an old fashioned QOTD...

QOTD: What is your "rank of seasons" for running, starting with your favorite?

You know, I've been saying that I don't mind running in the heat, but either something changed or I was lying to myself. I'll still take it over the cold, but hoo boy I need to work on getting up early to run before the worst of the heat of the day.

1. Spring
2. Fall
3. Summer
4. Winter

 

[kbenson13]

Well summer is officially here... you that like to run in the heat are crazy! Let's kick it off with an old fashioned QOTD...

QOTD: What is your "rank of seasons" for running, starting with your favorite?

ATTQOTD:
1. Winter
2. Spring
3. Fall
4. Summer

In Houston, Summers are brutally hot and humid and winters are great. It almost never gets too cold to run and it is often quite perfect for running. Fall starts in September and while you start getting some limited relief in late September/early October, Spring as a whole still has better weather around these parts.

Having said that, I can't complain because I live in a climate where you CAN run all year round. There may be better places (like most of California) but there are definitely worse too!

 

[PrincessV]

I live in coastal Florida - my seasons are:

Summer
Snowbirds
Snowbirds + Tourists



My favorite running weather is around 65* and 80% humidity, which can happen in spring, fall, or winter, but never summer.

 

[KSellers88]

ATTQOTD:
1. Fall
2. Spring
3. Summer
4. Winter (I hate the cold)

 

[DopeyBadger]

Thank you for the perspective--and for the thoughts on doing a shorter time trial! I might take that up with the next one if only to build up my confidence a tiny bit. It sounds like I'm at least doing the MM trial correctly if I'm supposed to be breathing hard--the Galloway marathon plan did indicate that it's the one time in training I should be "huffing and puffing." And good to know that there's no one right way to do it as far as intervals or no; I'm going to keep experimenting with different intervals on it, maybe try it with unscheduled run/walk on the next one just to see how that goes. I think I've been putting about the right effort level toward it; it's only been relatively recently that I feel like I've gotten good at gauging effort level and how much I can give to a long run; speed is a whole new ballgame.

On the one hand, I am inclined to think I should assume that the MM calculations are accurate rather than reassure myself that I'm a special case who's just good at long runs and bad at speed. On the other hand, I'm generally hitting minimum pace requirements on long runs as I increase my distance despite MM calculations predicting my long run pace is in the 18 minute range rather than the 16 minute range. So I don't know. I don't want to ignore this aspect of training and calculations, but I honestly do not know if it's accurately reflecting where I am.

If the MM calculator is stating an 18 min/mile long run pace, then it means that it's also predicting your marathon pace to be around a 16 min/mile (or 7 hr marathon). On the surface it may seem like the better choice is to train at that 16 min/mile pace if it feels ok, but I'd give the 18 min/mile pace a real try. I know it seems counterintuitive, but more often than not overextending your pace on the long run is going to be less beneficial than going slow. Going slow enough on the long run is a real game changer for everyone from sub 3 runners to sub 7 runners.



If your fitness isn't prepared for a 16 min/mile to be long run pace (or a 10:45 MM, 14 min/mile marathon pace), then you'll essential be racing nearly every weekend with those long runs. You'll be surviving the training instead of thriving because of it. Like the instructions say, if you want to test out other paces, then do those during the week. But leave the long run weekends at the 18 min/mile and you'll likely be better off for it. If you feel the need to "test" yourself at a 16 min/mile longer run, then we could figure out a way to manipulate the runDisney marathon plan with a "B" race HM here or there.

Like I said above, I'm wary of just tossing this tool out of my training--it exists for a reason and it works for other people. But it might help me mentally and emotionally to know that it's not necessarily the only indicator of whether I'll be able to finish the marathon at the minimum required pace.

I'd actually say the opposite is true more often than not. The MM will be less indicative of your ability to finish the Disney Marathon, than will be a longer distance "B" race. That's because endurance is king in the marathon and it's easy to have the speed, but not as easy to have the endurance. The cutoff is 7 hours. Given COVID19 your guess is as good as mine as to how the corrals will be set up. But suffice to say, if you're not in the very last corral at the very back, then you have more than 7 hours to finish. How much more is an unknown at this point (and very well may be an unknown on race day unlike year's past where I could make pretty good guesses about timing). Based on my calculations, an average performance at the marathon that equates to a 7:00 hr marathon places someone at about a 3:10 HM fitness (or a 14:30 min/mile). I came to that calculation based on the average marathon conversion from a HM to a M being a 1.15 in the Reigel calculation (instead of the 1.06 he typically uses) based on Ian Williams and Vickers datasets of real marathon runners. So to feel comfortable with a 7 hr marathon finish time, I'd want to see something in the range of 3:10 as a best performance in the HM by October/November.