The Running Thread - 2021

[PrincessV]

From what I'm reading the weather changed suddenly and the runners weren't prepared. I'm curious if there was mandatory equipment for the race. More and more races that go over high passes require specific cold weather gear in the event of a sudden shift in weather. If this race didn't I hope trail running directors learn from this tragedy and make some changes.

I was thinking about this, too, when I heard the news. IDK anything about running at altitude, or that particular location, or trail running in general, but it struck me as kind of nuts that there wouldn't be a plan for inclement weather, or that runners wouldn't be prepared for temp changes - unless that type of weather has never happened there before? So incredibly sad.

 

[GreatLakes]

I was thinking about this, too, when I heard the news. IDK anything about running at altitude, or that particular location, or trail running in general, but it struck me as kind of nuts that there wouldn't be a plan for inclement weather, or that runners wouldn't be prepared for temp changes - unless that type of weather has never happened there before? So incredibly sad.

I've started to see some reporting roll in including this from iRunFar and this from a Chinese source. The iRunFar source has a few summaries of first person accounts and links for further sources and the Chinese source is the beginning of the finger pointing.

At some point it is impossible to prevent all tragedy at an event like this but the first domino to fall is the paultry mandatory equipment list. It is in the iRunFar post but as a summary:

We can confirm that the race organization required runners to carry the following mandatory kit:

• Race bib
• Timing chip
• GPX file/route
• GPS tracker
• One headlamp
• Water container with one-liter capacity
• Whistle
• Space blanket
• Cell phone

We can additionally confirm the race organization recommended but did not require runners to carry these items:

• Electrolyte drinks, water, and energy supplies
• Sun hat and sunglasses
• Petroleum jelly
• Buff
• Trekking poles
• Jacket
• First-aid kit

Compare that to the mandatory equipment list for UTMB:

Basic kit

• Running pack to carry mandatory gear throughout the race.
• Mobile phone (smartphone strongly recommended): the runner must be reachable at any time before, during and after the race:
  - mobile phone with international roaming allowing for its use in the three countries (load into its memory the organization's security numbers, don't mask your number and don't forget to take the start of your race with the battery fully charged)
  - Keep the phone on, airplane mode is forbidden and could give rise to penalties.
  - For smartphones: LiveRun application installed and activated.
  - An external battery is highly recommended
• Personal beaker 15 cl minimum (bottles or flasks with lids are not accepted)
• Minimum water supply: 1 liter
• 2 working torches with spare cells/batteries for each torch
  Recommendation : 200 lumens or more for the main torch
• Survival blanket of 1.40m x 2m minimum
• Whistle
• Self-adhering elastic bandage for bandaging or strapping (minimum 100 cm x 6 cm)
• Food reserve
  Recommendation: 800kcal (2 gels + 2 power bars each of 65g )
• Jacket with hood for bad weather in the mountains. The jacket must be made of a waterproof* and breathable** membrane (eg. Outdry)
  *minimum recommended 10 000 Schmerber
  **RET recommended inferior to 13
  - the jacket must, imperatively, have an integrated hood or one which is attached to the jacket by the original system designed for that purpose by the manufacturer.
  - the seams must be sealed.
  - the jacket must not have sections of fabric which are not waterproof, but air vents fitted by the manufacturer (under-arm, in the back)-since they do not damage in any obvious way the impermeability- are accepted.
  The runner must judge whether, according to the beforementioned criteria, the jacket complies with the regulations and therefore is suitable for bad weather in the mountains. However, during a check, the race director’s opinion on the matter shall prevail.
• Long-legged trousers or race leggings OR a combination of leggings and socks to cover the legs completely
• Cap or bandana or Buff®
• Additional warm second layer: a warm second layer top with long sleeves (excluding cotton) weighing at least 180g (men's size medium - M) OR the combination of a long-sleeved warm undergarment (first or second layer, excluding cotton) weighing at least 110g (men's size medium - M) and a windproof jacket* with durable water-repellent protection (DWR protection)
  *the wind-proof jacket does not replace the mandatory waterproof jacket, and vice versa
• Hat
• Warm and water-proof gloves
• Waterproof overpants
• ID – passport/ID card

Hot weather kit (may be required by the organization, depending on weather conditions)

• Sunglasses ***
• Saharan cap or any combination which completely covers the head and nape of the neck
• Sunscreen
  Recommendation: minimum sun protection factor (SPF) 50
• Minimum water supply: 2 liters

Cold weather kit (may be required by the organization, depending on weather conditions)

• Protective eyewear ***
• 3rd warm layer (intermediary layer between the 2nd layer and the waterproof jacket)
• Recommendation: fleece or compressible down jacket
• Sturdy, closed-toe trail-running shoes (minimalist or ultralight shoes excluded)

*** it is possible to use the same glasses if they are suitable both for the sun and bad weather (such as glasses with photo-chromatic lenses)

All clothing items must fit the runner - in terms of size - and they must not be altered in any way after leaving the factory.
The mandatory gear must be carried in a running pack for the duration of the whole race. The running pack is tagged during race-pack collection and must not be changed during the race.

Other recommended equipment (including but not limited to)

• Spare warm clothing, essential in case of cold and rainy weather or in case of injury
• Poles in the case of rain or snow for your safety on slippery ground
• Vaseline or anti-heat cream
• at least 20€ cash (just in case...).
• Reusable bowl
• GPS watch
• Knife or scissors for cutting elastic bandage
• Emergency sewing kit

If you choose to take hiking poles with you, you have to carry them for the duration of the whole race. It is forbidden to take the start without poles and get them during the course of the race.
No poles are authorized in the spare bags.
For safety or environmental reasons, poles are forbidden in certain zones along the route. These areas are marked by specific signs.

If you have further questions about mandatory equipment, do not hesitate to consult our FAQs

 

[PrincessV]

At some point it is impossible to prevent all tragedy at an event like this but the first domino to fall is the paultry mandatory equipment list.

I mean... I carry more than that for my slow WDW Marathon. That is just shockingly little.

 

[Dopey 2020]

90 in New England today, I love the heat but it is time to move my runs from after work to early morning. Every Spring and Fall is a fine line between too dark at 5AM and too hot at 4PM. Just about 4 months to an “A” race marathon so hoping to increase from 3-4 days to 5 days/week, we’ll see how a complete schedule change works

 

[camaker]

90 in New England today, I love the heat but it is time to move my runs from after work to early morning. Every Spring and Fall is a fine line between too dark at 5AM and too hot at 4PM. Just about 4 months to an “A” race marathon so hoping to increase from 3-4 days to 5 days/week, we’ll see how a complete schedule change works

Looking at 92 deg with a dew point of 70+ deg when I head out for my run at 5pm here in NC. It’s going to be really bad until the heat acclimation kicks in. Then it’ll only be moderately bad... I just can’t do early mornings.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

Looking at 92 deg with a dew point of 70+ deg when I head out for my run at 5pm here in NC. It’s going to be really bad until the heat acclimation kicks in. Then it’ll only be moderately bad... I just can’t do early mornings.

We take for granted how much better our bodies perform in the cold. The heat rolls in and our body has to figure out how to effectively dump heat and provide fuel all over again, year after year. That is why I hate June most of all for running. Love the weather for everything else, but running is brutal as we acclimatize.

 

[camaker]

We take for granted how much better our bodies perform in the cold. The heat rolls in and our body has to figure out how to effectively dump heat and provide fuel all over again, year after year. That is why I hate June most of all for running. Love the weather for everything else, but running id brutal as we acclimatize.

It’s also demoralizing this time of year to watch Dr Garmin deliver a verdict of “Unproductive“ over and over as runs get hot and humid. You know in your heart that it’s not you, it’s the heat and humidity, but the doubts always seem to creep in...

Just one more reason I want to move to the Forerunner 945 and see if it really can adjust workout assessment for heat and humidity. But if it really IS me, do I really want to know?

 

[RunDopey]

It’s also demoralizing this time of year to watch Dr Garmin deliver a verdict of “Unproductive“ over and over as runs get hot and humid. You know in your heart that it’s not you, it’s the heat and humidity, but the doubts always seem to creep in...

Just one more reason I want to move to the Forerunner 945 and see if it really can adjust workout assessment for heat and humidity. But if it really IS me, do I really want to know?

Ahh, the summer VO2 max tax Same here in Texas. My Fenix6 seems to be adjusting and the heat acclimation is handy.

I tend to stay in Unproductive, but I am not sure how well Garmin adjusts for running > 50 miles a week. If my performance stays fairly static during maintenance running, it keeps suggesting rest days :/

Also very much not a morning person unless it is a race or running after midnight

 

[BuckeyeBama]

It’s also demoralizing this time of year to watch Dr Garmin deliver a verdict of “Unproductive“ over and over as runs get hot and humid. You know in your heart that it’s not you, it’s the heat and humidity, but the doubts always seem to creep in...

Just one more reason I want to move to the Forerunner 945 and see if it really can adjust workout assessment for heat and humidity. But if it really IS me, do I really want to know?

Yeah, my VO2Max has dropped 2 points this week. This while I am running at the same pace, but my heart rate is much higher on those runs (20 bpm higher on average).

It drives me nuts.

Strava thinks that I am getting a lot more fit because of my high heart rates during these runs.

 

[jmasgat]

It’s also demoralizing this time of year to watch Dr Garmin deliver a verdict of “Unproductive“ over and over as runs get hot and humid. You know in your heart that it’s not you, it’s the heat and humidity, but the doubts always seem to creep in...

Just one more reason I want to move to the Forerunner 945 and see if it really can adjust workout assessment for heat and humidity. But if it really IS me, do I really want to know?

Wow. What a nasty thing for a "smart" device to say! I say ignore it--until it starts giving you a "kinder/gentler" response!

All humor aside, try not to get too caught up with the data--it can suck all the joy out of running.

 

[azrivest]

Then how do you guys manage going to FL in the dead of winter for rD?

I run all year, hot or cold, but don't know how my body'll react going from 10 degrees to 80 in a matter of days

 

[BuckeyeBama]

Then how do you guys manage going to FL in the dead of winter for rD?

I run all year, hot or cold, but don't know how my body'll react going from 10 degrees to 80 in a matter of days

I have never had a problem with those runs at WDW because I never run them for time. I take my time, stop for pictures, etc.

That said, I often train in FL for a month or two every year, including September, so I am used to the mental struggles.

 

[Baloo in MI]

Then it’ll only be moderately bad... I just can’t do early mornings.

My issue exactly. As much as I’d like to be that runner up in the o’dark early of the morning; I am not that runner! Almost all my runs end up being after work. I have tried every trick I can think of, plus other things shared with me. But in the end the pull of my pillow at 4:30 in the morning is just too strong. Strangely, though on the weekends I find it easier to be up early to get in a long run. Weekdays, forget about it!

 

[Krandor]

Looking at 92 deg with a dew point of 70+ deg when I head out for my run at 5pm here in NC. It’s going to be really bad until the heat acclimation kicks in. Then it’ll only be moderately bad... I just can’t do early mornings.

I'm in Georgia. Heat is already starting to be an issue but we are still in the dry heat phase before humidity kicks it. But gotta get acclimated to it. Got an in-person PTRR on July 4th in downtown atlanta to run

 

[Rogue224]

I’m in PA pollen central. Humidity is kicking in here. DW and I are going to Myrtle Beach next week. Taking some running clothes with plans to do some sunrise boardwalk running. It’ll be nice to just have a change of scenery to check out.

 

[flav]

But if it really IS me, do I really want to know?

It IS me… My self preservation instincts are absolutely blocking any type of performance in the heat!
I confirmed that, again, by running 15k at lunch today

Then how do you guys manage going to FL in the dead of winter for rD?

When Fall and Winter came, instead of getting used to it by “toughing” being cold at the beginning of my training, I overdressed so I would be ok at the start and hot after a few km. Also, I runDisney for fun, not for performance so these races are my personal worst. Why not enjoy an extra two hours of it ?

 

[azrivest]

When Fall and Winter came, instead of getting used to it by “toughing” being cold at the beginning of my training, I overdressed so I would be ok at the start and hot after a few km. Also, I runDisney for fun, not for performance so these races are my personal worst. Why not enjoy an extra two hours of it ?

Great advice thanks

 

[DopeyBadger]

Then how do you guys manage going to FL in the dead of winter for rD?

I run all year, hot or cold, but don't know how my body'll react going from 10 degrees to 80 in a matter of days

Heat acclimation training the last 2 weeks prior to the race. When I did my runDisney races I ran them for time and performance. Despite going from as much as a -50F windchill to a 50F race or more likely something in the -15F windchill to 60-80F races, I was usually tolerant to the change in weather because of the heat acclimation training. It isn't perfect, but it does help. Of course I was in shorts and tank during Dopey 2018 when it was in the 20-30s in Disney.

Training in the cold, but racing in the heat: The need for heat acclimation

 

[PrincessV]

Oh boy - running in the heat talk! Time for the Floridian to jump in?!

I happened to be at WDW for Star Wars Day - you know, the 3 days the unseasonable heat indexes were over 100*? BAM! Instant heat acclimation: I'm ready for our 6 months of summer now lol!

I moved my weekday runs to mornings a few weeks ago. I'm running shorter distances, because I can't go more than 45 minutes without eating first, and I'm unwilling to get up at 4am to have time to eat first. Right now, it's nice! Mornings at sunrise are in the low 70s. But it won't last and 85* and 100% humidity at sunrise won't have much going for it compared to 90* and 70% humidity in the evening. Every year, I make myself wait until August to start complaining about the heat - because that's when it really starts taking a toll, juts when my mileage needs to start building. I'm still in the honeymoon period, when I'm just happy to not be cold all the time, and when dressing for a run is as simple as a skirt + tank top!

Also, the Garmin gets banished for summer. Because I don't need a HR monitor to tell me I'm overheated on the regular - trust me, I KNOW.

 

[RunDopey]

I do have issues when I have to run in < 32F. My first 100mi race the temp never got over 34 and I never *felt* like my muscles were warmed up. It was probably more of a mind vs matter thing but not fun. I ran Rocky Raccoon in February and the temp was in the high 30s overnight but I was pushing a lot harder in that race and was sweaty most of the time.

I have a similar struggle as others with training runs in the morning. It just never feels quite right. So I run after work, which can be anywhere from 5 to 10 PM. It does not really matter after mid-June, because there is not much difference to me. It is all hot. @PrincessV I think I get season affect disorder in late August from too much daylight and hot

I do my long runs in the summer during the heat of the day. This is because of a race I run in mid-August that starts at noon. There are also training benefits from running in heat. It has taken me a few years to ease into running when the heat index is > 105 because of the dangers of heat stroke. One of my bucket list races is Badwater and I figure it is good practice.